cMbp 15inch vs. rMbp 15inch

Deneb · Jun 27, 2013

I've been recently looking to buy a macbook pro but I've been unable to get past this dilemma so far. As much I love the stunning display that the retina model has to offer, its price(ouch) and the fact that it is not user upgrade-able/serviceable make me feel that it is not worth its while.
What I'm looking at is an around 2k dollar computer, which due to the fact that everything is soldered together will be more or less obsolete in 2-3 years. By buying a cMbp or most windows laptops this can be kinda alleviated by replacing hdd/sdd/ram.
For such an already overpriced product(albeit a very good product ), I'd definitely not be willing to shell out the extra money to buy apple care. After the 1 year warranty expires, should some fault occur(hdd/ram etc.), I not be able to replace said part myself, and the repair costs as far as I've seen are not something to scoff at(700~$ iirc).
So, I'd like to hear some of your opinions. Do you feel "making a leap of faith" towards the rMbp is "worth it"?

farmermac · Jun 27, 2013

If you spend this much on a computer, you bite the bullet and get AppleCare. While the rMBP is mostly not upgradable and hard to repair yourself, I hardly think it will be outdated in 3 years. It is a high end, well spec'ed machine. Competitive windows laptops with comparable processors, batteries, screens are not that much cheaper

NewishMacGuy · Jun 27, 2013

Deneb said:
I've been recently looking to buy a macbook pro but I've been unable to get past this dilemma so far. As much I love the stunning display that the retina model has to offer, its price(ouch) and the fact that it is not user upgrade-able/serviceable make me feel that it is not worth its while.
What I'm looking at is an around 2k dollar computer, which due to the fact that everything is soldered together will be more or less obsolete in 2-3 years. By buying a cMbp or most windows laptops this can be kinda alleviated by replacing hdd/sdd/ram.
For such an already overpriced product(albeit a very good product ), I'd definitely not be willing to shell out the extra money to buy apple care. After the 1 year warranty expires, should some fault occur(hdd/ram etc.), I not be able to replace said part myself, and the repair costs as far as I've seen are not something to scoff at(700~$ iirc).
So, I'd like to hear some of your opinions. Do you feel "making a leap of faith" towards the rMbp is "worth it"?

It's never going to be more upgradeable, so it's really just a question of price. I'm going to wait until the spec at the current base price is high enough that it will satisfy my needs for the next 4 years or so before I buy a new one. For me that means 16GB, a 512GB SDD and 802.11ac. The next update might get us there.

___

Deneb · Jun 27, 2013

well anything above 1080p for me is very much overkill. It's nice to have, but if an mbp 15inch with a 1080p display existed I'd get that and not the retina resolution without a second thought. Sure, retina is neat and nice to watch, but I can't think of a single thing where more than 1920x1080 would be necessary(gaming for instance needs monster gpus to run recent games at more than 1080p).
Also, battery life, another thing macs excel compared to most >1000$/euros w/e laptops doesn't mean much to me as I spend a lot of time carrying my machine, but when I actually sit down and operate it I can plug it in 90% or more of the time.
Especially since I'd like to carry on gaming, there are huge contenders with the mbp/mbp retina in the form of this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lenovo-Idea...1?ie=UTF8&qid=1372336437&sr=8-1&keywords=y500

It is almost half price, and spec wise(screen 1080p only but I don't mind much, non-ssd but it's really easy to put one in due to the ultrabay it has, slightly better gpu than the mbp retinas). I understand that macs are almost always more expensive than "equivalent" windows machines, and I would understand it if a similarly speced mac to the y500 cost say 1000-1100pounds. However, the only 15inch mac that falls into this category is a refurb 15inch 2012 model which has a 1400x900 display, which even for me is rather low.

laurihoefs · Jun 27, 2013

If you conside it "a leap of faith" you need to be talked in to, I'd say better look for something else.

The rMBP is a tool that is priced very similarly to comparable laptops (hi-res IPS screen, SSD, etc.) from other manufacturers, for instance HP EliteBooks or Lenovo W-series. There is no premium in the price, and considering that it is a really powerful computer today, it is very unlikely to be obsolete in a couple of years.

It's a good computer, but if you doubt whether you need to spend >2k on a laptop, and feel you could get your stuff done on a cheaper alternative instead, I'd say go for that alternative.

But if you can justify a >2k purchase, then getting the rMBP and AppleCare is easily one of the best options available, and will be sufficient for many years.

Deneb · Jun 27, 2013

@laurihoefs: This is pretty much the conclusion I'm sadly coming to. Yes, apple computers are as a whole more reliable and stylish and user friendly as I've come to understand from several friends who are mac users, but there are two major issues I have with them(three if we count the non-user upgradeability). First off, you are paying a premium price due to the machine being apple(some people justify it, some do not.) Secondly, what I require of my machine seems to be somewhere inbetween what a cmbp 15inch (2012) and a retina mbp offer; the former is around what I'm prepared to pay for(even though I'd still go with a refurb product if I was ever to buy a mac) but I find its display lacking; the latter has an overkill display since 1080p is all I need/want, pushing its price above what I am prepared to pay for... Sucks, but oh well I guess I'll just have to live with it. One positive thing I can see with going for a cheaper machine(see windows) is that due to the drastically lower cost, I'll be less afraid of it breaking down or being stolen. I'm pretty sure I'd develop insomnia and become paranoid if I had a 2k dollar laptop that might be stolen

ugahairydawgs · Jun 27, 2013

I take it from your link above that you are in the UK? You can get a 15" rMBP with 16GB of RAM and a 512GB SSD in the refurb store for £1,839.00

Deneb · Jun 27, 2013

as I said above, unfortunately my needs are between the classic and retina mbp 15inch, one having too weak a display, the other having a "too good for my needs display". If the 13inch retina had a discrete gpu I would definitely be getting that and I'm assuming that (if it did) I'd most probably be still within my price range.
As for storage, I don't really mind it. Even if its an unupgradeable 128gb ssd ,portable hard drives are extremely small and light nowdays. If apple offered a 3rd option for cmbp display, a 1080p screen instead of just the stock 1440x900 and the upgrade to 1600x900(?) for a reasonable price I'd be superhappy with a cmbp 15inch.

ugahairydawgs · Jun 27, 2013

I think I'm missing something. How does the rMBP have too good of a display? I get that the native res on it is pretty high, but everything in the OS is scaled and, shy of a hack, the highest you can go is 1920 x 1200.

Deneb · Jun 27, 2013

I might be completely wrong in this, but I believe that if apple used a display that could reach max 1920x1080 it'd be at least partially cheaper than the retina(1080p non retina, like the one the 17inch mbp used to have iirc).
By using retina displays there is a big price bump upward, which pushed the prices to beyond what I was prepared to pay

Count Blah · Jun 27, 2013

I got the base 15" cMBP because I tend to keep the machines longer(hand me downs in the family), and I want the ability to keep it relevant longer through upgrades I can make myself for less than the soldered in options from Apple.

If I only planned on keeping it 3 years, I would have gone rMBP.

But to each his own.

swerve147 · Jun 27, 2013

The 1680x1050 resolution of the cMBP is perfect for that screen size. Any smaller and you're squinting.

On the other hand the rMBP can scale to 1920x1200, so if you're looking for that type of resolution on the OS X desktop the rMBP can do that for you. As for gaming, you'd be surprised how well the rMBP scales down to 1440x900 or 1680x1050. It's actually quite pleasant to the eye, so you don't need to run games at the rMBP's native resolution at all (in Windows).

Ultimately I'd go with the cMBP due to the upgradability of the machine and the workable resolution, as long as it's not the base with 512MB VRAM (you mentioned gaming).

Deneb · Jun 27, 2013

If we're talking about sub 1080p resolutions I'd rather just go with the 2013 air,which however again has either a problem of being too pricy if I max it out or if I stick to base models it will be obsolete too soon :/
Apparently (after jumping over to the mbair section of this forum) it can run most games pretty nicely at 720/768p.

ljx718 · Jun 27, 2013

from what you keep saying, its obvious that you dont want what apple has to offer. look for a windows computer that fits your needs and be done with it

leman · Jun 27, 2013

Hm, in my eyes, its the cMBP which is overpriced. If you compare the price, the base rMBP is $300 more then the cMBP with a high-res screen. That $300 get you a fast SSD, 8GB RAM, an IPS display and 25% less weight. Now let's look at upgrades. A 256Gb SSD which is comparable to the 830-series one in the rMBP will cost you around $200, add 60$ for 8GB RAM, and you are looking at $260 for upgrades! This makes the price difference between cMBP and rMBP with comparable specs ~$50, and the rMBP is still lighter and has a better display...

Of course, the price difference increases if you need to configure the machine differently (e.g. if you need the 512GB SSD)...

Deneb · Jun 27, 2013

leman, I don't plan in running parallels or doing heavy video editing, so 4GB ram suffice, or I could upgrade just one stick and have 10gb(2+8). Also, ssds could potentially drop in prices, like all tech eventually does. As a standalone, indeed the rmbp outclasses the cmbp in almost all aspects. However, if you think 3-4 years down the line, or even 1-2... ssd prices are becoming more and more competitive; 512gb may cost 200$ in a couple of years. Ram prices are going to drop as well sooner or later.

swerve147 · Jun 27, 2013

Deneb said:
If we're talking about sub 1080p resolutions I'd rather just go with the 2013 air,which however again has either a problem of being too pricy if I max it out or if I stick to base models it will be obsolete too soon :/
Apparently (after jumping over to the mbair section of this forum) it can run most games pretty nicely at 720/768p.

A refurbished base rMBP at $1,599 will completely overrun any MBA in existence (except for battery life) and its GT650M GPU can run games much more fluently than the HD5000 at any resolution. You'd be making a huge mistake going that route imo.

leman · Jun 27, 2013

Deneb said:
leman, I don't plan in running parallels or doing heavy video editing, so 4GB ram suffice, or I could upgrade just one stick and have 10gb(2+8). Also, ssds could potentially drop in prices, like all tech eventually does. As a standalone, indeed the rmbp outclasses the cmbp in almost all aspects. However, if you think 3-4 years down the line, or even 1-2... ssd prices are becoming more and more competitive; 512gb may cost 200$ in a couple of years. Ram prices are going to drop as well sooner or later.

RAM prices are rather unlikely to drop, as in few years we will be using DDR4 (thus DDR3 will become obsolete). As to SSD prices - it is possible that we will see more aftermarket SSDs which fit the rMBP (though its just a speculation). Anyway, I would recommend waiting for the Haswell rMBP, simply because of the PCI-e SSD (and you won't be able to upgrade the cMBP to anything even remotely approaching the performance of those drives). Of course, I do understand and somewhat agree with your point. The thing, is, I'd rather pay few hundred now and get a great computer that would easily last me 4 years, then pay less and get a worse computer right now just to upgrade it to slightly better machine after few years. Of course, it also depends on your needs... I don't think I will manage to fill up my 256GB SSD in the coming years, so I won't need a 512GB one

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swerve147 said:
A refurbished base rMBP at $1,599 will completely overrun any MBA in existence (except for battery life) and its GT650M GPU can run games much more fluently than the HD5000 at any resolution. You'd be making a huge mistake going that route imo.

Just a note: the MBA has a significantly faster storage.

Rhinoevans · Jun 27, 2013

Buy the cMBP, upgrade down the road, and don't look back. The rMBP only offers a better screen, and FOR ME, it was not worth it. Most of what I do and the software at that time was bot ready for retina anyway. Could I tell the difference between retina and non retina, sure, but not so revolutionary that i had to have it. Other will disagree. The special order rMBP with 16G was way more than I wanted to pay. I have had my cMBP for almost a year, upgraded to 16G Ram immediately, but have delayed the SSD upgrade till larger drives are available for a better price.

OK, better screen and slimmer profile!

NewishMacGuy · Jun 27, 2013

Deneb said:
as I said above, unfortunately my needs are between the classic and retina mbp 15inch, one having too weak a display, the other having a "too good for my needs display"....

...If apple offered a 3rd option for cmbp display, a 1080p screen instead of just the stock 1440x900 and the upgrade to 1600x900(?) for a reasonable price I'd be superhappy with a cmbp 15inch.

The "hi-res" version of the uMBP-15 is 1680x1050, which is pretty much the 1080p for which you're looking.

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