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Old Jul 16, 2013, 08:06 AM   #1
mumph
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Nationwide Manhunt - UK (rant - I'm bored!)

Government defends killer Ian McLoughlin's day release

The Ministry of Justice has defended releasing a killer on licence after he went on the run when a "good Samaritan" was stabbed to death.

The search for Ian John McLoughlin, 55, follows the death of Graham Buck, 66, in a Hertfordshire village on Saturday.
Mr Buck died intervening in a robbery two doors from his home.
McLoughlin was on day release from Category D HMP Spring Hill when Mr Buck was killed. The Ministry of Justice (MoJ) said day release was "essential".
"Release on temporary licence is used to prepare prisoners for their eventual release from custody," a spokesman for the MoJ said.
"It helps to reduce the chance of re-offending by setting up appropriate employment and rehabilitation work in the community, and maintaining family contact.
"This is essential for successful resettlement."
McLoughlin had served 22 years of a minimum 25-year sentence for murder.
Another man hurt in the suspected robbery, in which thousands of pounds were stolen, has been released from hospital and is currently in what police described as a "place of safety".
Det Ch Supt Jeff Hill said Mr Buck had received "fatal stab wounds" and police were treating the death as murder.
Police said they had found a number of "items of interest" at the crime scene but were unable yet to state whether the murder weapon was among them.
It was unclear whether McLoughlin was armed, police said.
Police thought McLoughlin might have left Hertfordshire and confirmed their search had "gone nationwide".
They said ports, police forces and airports across the country had been "put on alert".
McLoughlin is known to be a heavy drinker and police have appealed to owners of guest houses, hoteliers and pubs to be "vigilant".
McCoughlin is described as white, about 6ft (1.8m) tall, with straight, greying, collar-length hair and of average build.
Anyone with information on his whereabouts has been urged to contact police or Crimestoppers.

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A couple of things bother me on this. One, he has been judged a murderer, in my view he should be hung or at the very least never released. This guy was released, albeit 22 years after the crime and he subsequently killed again.

The second thing, and the one that puzzles/irks me the most is even though he's spent the last 22 years in jail he is, and i quote "a heavy drinker". How, if he is locked up does he get access to alcohol to be classed as a heavy drinker? After 22 years of going cold turkey he should be pretty much over his drink problem dont you think? Or, and this would not surprise me, do our ever more cushy prisons now serve alcohol to their 'tenants'?

It wouldn't surprise me, I mean with the HD Tvs and video games they get it would be a crime not to offer alcohol too.

We need our prisons to scare the **** out of people so they won't commit a crime from fear of being locked up. I know of someone who is in and out of prison every year "its not that bad" he says. "I get out, I do what I want, if i get caught I go down and have nothing to worry about. I get out again and do what I want." I think were his exact words.

If he was scared to get 'sent down' he wouldn't be doing 'what he wants' and would look at getting a job like the rest of us.
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Old Jul 16, 2013, 08:42 AM   #2
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If he was scared to get 'sent down' he wouldn't be doing 'what he wants' and would look at getting a job like the rest of us.
Well I guess you've got it all figured out.
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Old Jul 16, 2013, 09:01 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by mumph View Post

"I get out, I do what I want, if i get caught I go down and have nothing to worry about. I get out again and do what I want." I think were his exact words.

If he was scared to get 'sent down' he wouldn't be doing 'what he wants' and would look at getting a job like the rest of us.
I have to agree with mobilehaathi...it does seem an extreme oversimplification of a more complex issue. Aside from the good possibility that you friend's (acquaintance, whatever) statement was jailhouse bravado, there are a lot of factors invovled in criminal behavior. That is not, in any sense, meant to excuse criminal behavior, just to point out that more goes into it than you suggest.

And one more point...making prison conditions more extreme does not seem to have much of an effect (no source, just an observation of questionable value) because very few criminals engage in criminal behavior expecting to be caught and end up doing time. The assumption is always that "I will not be caught"...rational logic notwithstanding.
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Old Jul 16, 2013, 09:34 AM   #4
Kissaragi
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Theres countries with awful, awful prisons. They still have people committing crimes.

Its a massively complex issue that cant be solved by just giving out harsher punishment.
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Old Jul 16, 2013, 09:49 AM   #5
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it does seem an extreme oversimplification of a more complex issue.

We see a lot of that in PRSI.
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Old Jul 16, 2013, 11:34 AM   #6
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The UK isn't that large area wise so you should find him pretty quickly.
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Old Jul 16, 2013, 01:20 PM   #7
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I have to agree with mobilehaathi...it does seem an extreme oversimplification of a more complex issue. Aside from the good possibility that you friend's (acquaintance, whatever) statement was jailhouse bravado, there are a lot of factors invovled in criminal behavior. That is not, in any sense, meant to excuse criminal behavior, just to point out that more goes into it than you suggest.

And one more point...making prison conditions more extreme does not seem to have much of an effect (no source, just an observation of questionable value) because very few criminals engage in criminal behavior expecting to be caught and end up doing time. The assumption is always that "I will not be caught"...rational logic notwithstanding.
You know, I have to admit that you have an uncanny ability to divine my underlying thoughts given only a single cynical, sarcastic and exceptionally brief comment.
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Old Jul 16, 2013, 01:32 PM   #8
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You know, I have to admit that you have an uncanny ability to divine my underlying thoughts given only a single cynical, sarcastic and exceptionally brief comment.
I live to serve...

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Old Jul 17, 2013, 03:21 AM   #9
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....."Release on temporary licence is used to prepare prisoners for their eventual release from custody," a spokesman for the MoJ said. "It helps to reduce the chance of re-offending by setting up appropriate employment and rehabilitation work in the community, and maintaining family contact. "This is essential for successful resettlement." McLoughlin had served 22 years of a minimum 25-year sentence for murder.....
I agree that harsher sentences do not appear to prevent crimes from happening in the first place, but they will separate and protect the rest of us, from the convicted perpetrators, especially career criminals, who have not demonstrated the will or ability to abandon their criminal lifestyle, and become productive members of society.

This attempt at rehabilitation apparently did not work. Twenty-two years of jail time, could not make this man see the error of his ways. Sadly, some people just cannot be rehabilitated. It appears McLoughlin is one of these people, and Buck, the good samaritan paid the ultimate price.
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Old Jul 17, 2013, 10:43 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by mumph View Post
...
We need our prisons to scare the **** out of people so they won't commit a crime from fear of being locked up. I know of someone who is in and out of prison every year "its not that bad" he says. "I get out, I do what I want, if i get caught I go down and have nothing to worry about. I get out again and do what I want." I think were his exact words.

If he was scared to get 'sent down' he wouldn't be doing 'what he wants' and would look at getting a job like the rest of us.
It's not so simple. Finland is one of the few countries that has tried both the 'tough' and 'rehabilitation' routes. While the Soviet Union existed, Finland's prison system was modelled on the Soviet system.... very tough, long sentences, lots of people in jail. After the collapse of the USSR Finland became more 'Scandinavian' and remodelled their prison system to be more progressive. A lot of effort went into trying to reintegrate prisoners back into society. Two things happened when Finland did this. 1) Crime rate went significantly down, and 2) They saved a lot of money.

Because you can compare stats from the same country in this case you can filter out most of the cultural differences that make comparing stats from two different countries difficult.

The other way of looking at the 'lock 'em up' mentality is ... Someone makes a bad decision, and you end up tossing them into a peer group that approves of their behaviour, teaches them how to do it better, and then by labelling them as a 'convict' you make sure that they can't easily get an honest job.

Even in a well run rehabilitative system there are always going to be a few people who don't properly reintegrate. But in the overall picture, there are fewer victims when you try to reintegrate rather than 'lock 'em up'.

Generally speaking, of course, and imho....
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