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Old Jul 18, 2013, 04:25 PM   #1
Rogifan
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Microsoft takes $900 Million writeoff on Surface tablets

Ouch. Microsoft down over 5% in after hours trading. They can reorg all they want but as long as Ballmer is running the show it won't matter.

http://us.rd.yahoo.com/finance/exter.../?mod=yahoo_hs
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Old Jul 18, 2013, 04:26 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
Ouch. Microsoft down over 5% in after hours trading. They can reorg all they want but as long as Ballmer is running the show it won't matter.

http://us.rd.yahoo.com/finance/exter.../?mod=yahoo_hs
You forgot the "million".
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Old Jul 18, 2013, 04:32 PM   #3
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I think MS is on the right track with win8, the non rt operating system. I think their attempt into hardware is an unmitigated disaster and the right off shows that.

If they stick to improving win 8 on tablets and making a solid win8 desktop OS, they'll be making more money
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Old Jul 18, 2013, 04:58 PM   #4
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You forgot the "million".
I just popped in to say the same.

I really am starting to enjoy using Windows 8 despite having a massive distaste for it at launch but their ARM strategy seems completely off base when you take into consideration what apple have done with the iPad and Mac OS X.

Why are Microsoft trying to shoehorn a desktop operating system with the legacy it has into an Arm device like the surface?

There's just not enough in the way of applications and games on the metro side to back it up (something that Apple are untouchable on IMO).
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Old Jul 18, 2013, 04:58 PM   #5
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Microsoft rarely get things right to begin with. Windows 1.0, Original Xbox, SkyDrive, MSN and many more of their products were flops to begin with. Give them time, I'm sure they'll figure it out like the rest of their products. Windows 8 is a fantastic tablet and desktop OS and I see it having a lot of potential with some decent updates. As for the Surface... I've yet to use one but they seem okay, albeit overpriced.

I must be the only person on this forum who doesn't think Ballmer is some sort of idiot. Microsoft release some quality products as well s some questionable ones. Just like any other company.
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Old Jul 18, 2013, 05:00 PM   #6
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You forgot the "million".
Oops...fixed.
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Old Jul 18, 2013, 05:01 PM   #7
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I must be the only person on this forum who doesn't think Ballmer is some sort of idiot.
Yup

I think Microsoft has enjoyed varying levels of success despite Ballmer not because of him.

I agree MS has a poor track record for version 1.0 stuff, but they also have a poor track record when it comes to hardware (xbox is the exception). They're a software company and by producing the tablet, they generated an over priced under-whelming product that also alienated their OEMs. They lost on both fronts, the consumers and the people they sell windows too - the OEMs
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Old Jul 18, 2013, 09:00 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
Ouch. Microsoft down over 5% in after hours trading. They can reorg all they want but as long as Ballmer is running the show it won't matter.

http://us.rd.yahoo.com/finance/exter.../?mod=yahoo_hs
Surface RT tablets, not Surface. It seems like the 'pro' Surface is doing just fine. There is a difference. No one knows any solid numbers regarding Win 8 tablet sales as a whole, as they have not been released.

Win 8 sales have hit 100 million licenses, which is pretty much on par with Win 7 sales when it was released.
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Old Jul 18, 2013, 10:17 PM   #9
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Yup

I think Microsoft has enjoyed varying levels of success despite Ballmer not because of him.

I agree MS has a poor track record for version 1.0 stuff, but they also have a poor track record when it comes to hardware (xbox is the exception). They're a software company and by producing the tablet, they generated an over priced under-whelming product that also alienated their OEMs. They lost on both fronts, the consumers and the people they sell windows too - the OEMs
Their keyboards are top notch as well. Their mice are second only to Logitech. I use and recommend a combo of a Microsoft keyboard and Logitech mouse. The Lifecam isn't half bad either.
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Old Jul 19, 2013, 08:50 AM   #10
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Microsoft down almost 10% so far today. Bunch of downgrades apparently. Wow. Wonder if they'll recover some as the day goes on.
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Old Jul 19, 2013, 09:08 AM   #11
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I love OSX.

Considering Windows limits, I found Windows 7 to be workable, but again I'm running into an unsolvable issue which will only be corrected by a clean install. I can't claim this is unheard of on OSX, but I've been running Windows since '95 and it's construction is such that clean installs are an inevitability. I endure it because of games that run better in Windows or not available in Mac.

Windows 8- I really dislike it's live tiles.

Other than that, being a happy iPad owner, I've never even considered a MS tablet. For those who have, what are it's limitations as compared to iOS. What would you say is wrong with it?
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Old Jul 20, 2013, 08:44 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by roadbloc View Post
Microsoft rarely get things right to begin with. Windows 1.0, Original Xbox, SkyDrive, MSN and many more of their products were flops to begin with. Give them time, I'm sure they'll figure it out like the rest of their products. Windows 8 is a fantastic tablet and desktop OS and I see it having a lot of potential with some decent updates. As for the Surface... I've yet to use one but they seem okay, albeit overpriced.

I must be the only person on this forum who doesn't think Ballmer is some sort of idiot. Microsoft release some quality products as well s some questionable ones. Just like any other company.
I agree that Microsoft rarely gets things right on the first try. Apple is no exception.

And I agree that the Surface is a great product with a lot of potential. The problem is that it's too little, too late. The Surface was announced in 2012. By this time, there were solid offerings already available on the market in the iPad and Galaxy Tab among others. The iPad and Galaxy tab were also iterations of previous products. It's an uphill battle to beat an established competitor.

There are many who claim that the delays in getting Surface to market were due at least in part to corporate bureaucracy, with people in the Windows division dragging feet over Microsoft capitalizing on tablets for fear of losing their position of dominance within the company. As a CEO, it's Ballmer's job to steer the company into new, profitable directions. It's his job to prevent political infighting from interfering with company strategy. If turf wars were hindering Microsoft's ability to capitalize on newer markets, that's on Ballmer.
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Old Jul 21, 2013, 07:27 AM   #13
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In the past Microsoft used to take a few versions to get things right. That was a different era when they had time. Lately Microsoft has made mistake after mistake. No they are getting rid of Technet. Great. Punish the few enthusiasts, evangelists, and the enterprise people that pushed their products. Good move MS

Balmer's decisions of late, especially his reorganization, is not a good idea. Here is another angle on it.

Microsoft reminds me of RIM in 2010. Of course Microsoft's death spiral will just take longer.
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Old Jul 21, 2013, 07:52 AM   #14
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...but they also have a poor track record when it comes to hardware (xbox is the exception).
I'd claim the opposite. MS has always made decent hardware, but they always treat everything they make as an easily forgotten side project.

From what I've heard, the Zune was an excellent media player from top to bottom, actually beating out on quite a few fronts. Thing is, MS marketed it badly, only sold it in a relatively limited market, and dropped support for it way too quickly.

Imagine how big of a success the Zune would've been if they advertised the fact it offered unlimited streaming over the internet. It could do just about everything we love Spotify for now. But did they ever mention that? Oh no.

...they aired those weird animal commercials instead.

The Surface RT is almost in the exact same boat. It's a solid piece of hardware through and through. One of the few tablets out there that matches the iPad on both style and build quality. But the software lets it down. If you're mainly concerned about apps, there isn't a single thing out for it that makes it a more compelling purchase over an iOS or Android tablet. On top of that, MS released the WORST versions of their metro apps for the thing. Metro Mail doesn't compare to the Outlook web abb. Skydrive Metro is limited and clunky compared to the super sleek desktop and web versions. It kinda makes you wonder what the hell they were thinking.

MS needed to come out the gate screaming. Instead, they futzed around, didn't concentrate their talent around it, added the desktop to a touch environment just so they could get Office on there instead of converting Office to touch, and...yeah. They sorta puttered out the door instead.

The whole RT situation proves one thing to me. MS has a ton of talent and good ideas, but lack the leadership necessary to get that talent rolling.
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Old Jul 21, 2013, 08:28 AM   #15
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It's not only tablets where they're hurting.

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Since 2005, the last time Microsoft had a positive income result for its Online group, it has lost $11.98 billion. If you include the $6.2 billion right down for aQuantive, the total loss for the Online group since 2005 is a whopping $18.2 billion.
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Old Jul 21, 2013, 01:26 PM   #16
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Imagine how big of a success the Zune would've been if they advertised the fact it offered unlimited streaming over the internet. It could do just about everything we love Spotify for now. But did they ever mention that? Oh no.

...they aired those weird animal commercials instead.
It might have also helped if they had actively advertised that the Zune HD had an app store. Personally I wasn't even aware that it had one at all until I looked it up today.
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Old Jul 22, 2013, 05:22 AM   #17
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Microsoft rarely get things right to begin with. Windows 1.0, Original Xbox, SkyDrive, MSN and many more of their products were flops to begin with. Give them time, I'm sure they'll figure it out like the rest of their products. Windows 8 is a fantastic tablet and desktop OS and I see it having a lot of potential with some decent updates. As for the Surface... I've yet to use one but they seem okay, albeit overpriced.

I must be the only person on this forum who doesn't think Ballmer is some sort of idiot. Microsoft release some quality products as well s some questionable ones. Just like any other company.
I agree MS is more steam train than sports car.

I think the surface to watch out for is the surface pro not the RT. The market the RT plays in is too full and mature. The Pro on the other hand is something new and interesting. I ran into a gentleman that had Ps installed on his pro and it was nice to be able to draw right on the screen the only thing missing was the tactile feel of pen on paper. Thats just one IMHO interesting use
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Old Jul 22, 2013, 03:23 PM   #18
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But WTF...Surface tablets are just as good, if not better than iPads, aren't they??? They have magnetic keyboards and they run Office and they multitask!!! Just watch the commericals! It looks like an iPad and it's cheaper...I'm SURE it's just as good!!! This just doesn't make any sense at all!
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Old Jul 23, 2013, 12:36 AM   #19
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Linux is going to be intruding more and more on the corporate turf and apple/linux have already won the consumer game with mobile android and iOS. Microsoft isn't leaving itself much space as the consumer desktop market shrinks. Ubuntu is going for full convergence which is what Microsoft should have done. Carry my phone around all day, dock it and it comes up on my screen for a full pc experience.
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Old Jul 24, 2013, 09:17 AM   #20
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Ubuntu is going for full convergence which is what Microsoft should have done.
I just got through watching the Ubuntu Edge crowdfunding promo, and you know...you're right. Canonical has come up with much more interesting way of handling the desktop/mobile divide than MS has.

It's just about brilliant, really. When it's in your hand, it's a smartphone, complete with a touch based UI and mobile apps. Plug it into a monitor, and it's a full Ubuntu desktop you use with a mouse and keyboard (which I guess connects via bluetooth through the phone). There's no uneasy mix between what should be two entirely different environments. It's either one or the other depending on how you're using it.

I'd say more than MS, more than Google, more than Apple, they've got the best idea on how to bring the big and little worlds of computing together in one cohesive whole.
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Old Jul 24, 2013, 11:40 AM   #21
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Wondering what processor the Ubuntu Edge uses

I don't think it's possible to merge everything. Phones are all ARM based. PC's are all x86 based. Tablets are all ARM based, except for Win 8 Atom and Ivy Bridge devices (which is how MS is trying to disrupt tablets).

At this point in time, everyone has to pick either ARM or x86, including Canonical.
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Old Jul 24, 2013, 11:55 AM   #22
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In the past Microsoft used to take a few versions to get things right. That was a different era when they had time. Lately Microsoft has made mistake after mistake. No they are getting rid of Technet. Great. Punish the few enthusiasts, evangelists, and the enterprise people that pushed their products. Good move MS

Balmer's decisions of late, especially his reorganization, is not a good idea. Here is another angle on it.

Microsoft reminds me of RIM in 2010. Of course Microsoft's death spiral will just take longer.
MS makes a ton of mistakes and their marketing totally sucks, but the reorg is basically the same thing Cook has done and was meant to stop infighting between product groups. Both of them fired the most divisive guys in their companies - Forstall and Sinofsky. Cook stuck OSX and iOS under Federighi, and made Ive head of all things design related. That's a functional reorg.
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Old Jul 24, 2013, 12:03 PM   #23
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It's not so either/or as you'd think. With the right APIs, any developer can cross compile their apps between x86 and ARM with practically no more effort than it takes to click a button. All Canonical has to do is provide the environment to make this easy for developers to do. If they pull it off right, you wouldn't notice any difference between a Ubuntu desktop running on an ARM device, or Ubuntu running on x86 (well..besides speed anyway). They could support both.

Though on a semi-educated guess, I'm thinking Canonical would probably prefer backing ARM in the long run. It allows them more control, fits in better with the whole Linux mindset, and it's much cheaper than going with equivalent Intel chips.
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Old Jul 25, 2013, 04:51 AM   #24
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Ubuntu Edge is outstanding!

32 million is a long road though
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