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Old Jul 23, 2013, 10:15 AM   #1
Razeus
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How many went with a Windows rig?

With the bizarre pricing and sub-optimal parts choices of the 2012 iMacs, how many switched to a Windows based system?
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Old Jul 23, 2013, 10:48 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Razeus View Post
With the bizarre pricing and sub-optimal parts choices of the 2012 iMacs
According to who?
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Old Jul 23, 2013, 10:50 AM   #3
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Umm ... I am going to go out on a limb that the majority of any people who switched to windows are not on this forum to answer your question.
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Old Jul 23, 2013, 11:04 AM   #4
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I bought a Mini after previously owning an iMac, but that was primarily due to future upgrade considerations and that I felt like I was able to get a bit more bang for my buck.

Never seriously considered a windows machine.
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Old Jul 23, 2013, 12:07 PM   #5
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Is it April 1st???
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Old Jul 23, 2013, 12:07 PM   #6
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I replaced our old iMac with a custom built Windows PC since I wanted something better suited for gaming and without having to spend the money on a high-end iMac (plus, I don't need/care about the iMac's display).

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraH View Post
Umm ... I am going to go out on a limb that the majority of any people who switched to windows are not on this forum to answer your question.
I wouldn't necessarily say that. Lots of people here have an iMac and a MacBook Air/Pro. It's indeed possible that there are people here, like me, who have grown unhappy with Apple's desktop offerings while still preferring Apple's portable offerings.
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Old Jul 23, 2013, 12:26 PM   #7
iamgalactic
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Pricing no more bizarre than previous iMacs - pretty much on a par.

I'd priced up a 27" 2011 iMac before the new ones came out and got a maxed out 2012 machine with a fusion drive for cheaper than it would have cost for the maxed 2011 with ssd and 1tb hdd.

2011 maxed with 1tb+256gb SSD = 2369GBP
2012 maxed with 1tb fusion = 2179GBP

The 2012 comes with an extra 4GB ram - so to make this fair, the 2011 would have be 2449!

So, the 2012 is 270 cheaper and better everything (plus thunderbolt, usb3)

(don't start complaining about optical drives - that would be churlish)
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Old Jul 23, 2013, 01:25 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razeus View Post
With the bizarre pricing and sub-optimal parts choices of the 2012 iMacs, how many switched to a Windows based system?
The last PC (a decent hot rod box with a Core2Duo Conroe) I built for my office cost just about what I spent on my late 2012 27" iMac (loaded with every top end option except a 756GB SSD).

With inflation, that means that I spent less for the iMac, whose performance blows that custom built PC out of the water.

So . . . . . . . . your defined/asserted landscape has some problems.
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Old Jul 23, 2013, 01:42 PM   #9
Outrigger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razeus View Post
With the bizarre pricing and sub-optimal parts choices of the 2012 iMacs, how many switched to a Windows based system?
everyone in the iMac section went with a windows PC. does that answer your question?
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Old Jul 23, 2013, 02:05 PM   #10
Acorn
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I have a late 2012 imac and i love it. i dont even hear it running. plus no ugly box sitting on the floor.
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Old Jul 23, 2013, 03:07 PM   #11
jmhart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razeus View Post
With the bizarre pricing and sub-optimal parts choices of the 2012 iMacs, how many switched to a Windows based system?
I was hoping to go all Mac at home last year by replacing my bedroom machine with an iMac but ended up building a new PC instead...mostly because of the massive delay in the release--a move reinforced when it was released when I saw they chose to use the same several generation old IPS panel.

I'm hoping to be able to buy an iMac this year however and sell off the PC. I simply don't do as much gaming as I used to and I long to have Windows out of my home environment since I work with that crap all day long at work.

Please Apple, give us at least an improved IPS panel with a wider color gamut more comparable to the quality of the display on the 3rd gen iPad and newer. Nothing makes less sense to me than buying a 27" all-in-one with color reproduction that's inferior to my iPad. I'll have to wait to see how excited I get about the 2013 iMacs and then either go that direction or possibly get a new mini to supplement the Windows box though I really hope it doesn't come to that.
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Old Jul 23, 2013, 04:06 PM   #12
lomenak
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I went the other way round - bought my first Mac (2012 iMac 27") and couldnt be happier after using Windows since 3.1.
Not sure what you mean by sub-optimal parts choices. I maxed mine out and I never had a better machine. Definitely wouldnt go back there.
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Old Jul 24, 2013, 12:39 AM   #13
inodes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razeus View Post
With the bizarre pricing and sub-optimal parts choices of the 2012 iMacs, how many switched to a Windows based system?
I've been building and repairing systems for over 20 years.

I've been using a 2010 iMac and a custom built PC (with premium parts) side by side.

I wasn't expecting it, but can't wait to move away from my PC.

1. The iMac has been significantly easier to live with and less troublesome
2. Even premium parts in the PC have issues
3. Windows is built around compromise because it has to support so many variable parts. This can often cause issues.
4. The iMac doesn't actually use sub-optimal parts. They're highly customised to live in the space, but they are produced in the same factories many would source their PC parts.
5. When you look at the factories producing Apple parts, they often have much higher standards and checks in place for their Apple parts than the other companies they build for. This shows in the reliability I've experienced.

Note: I've had about 20 motherboards in my PC lifetime going back to my old XT days - 1988. I've been through a few 8088's 8086's, 286's, a 386 and 386SX before upgrading to 386DX, worked with at least 7 486's before going into computer repair.
With computer repair and support, I've probably looked after and repaired 100's of systems ranging from mainly Windows PC's and corporate computer systems (midrange HP-UX, Sun, some old DEC's), and of course Apple systems going back to the mid 90's to now.

I've had so many Window PC issues, which is why I've always hand picked my hardware (and spent a small fortune doing so).

Bottom line is that I've decided to ditch 20 years worth of building customer PC's for the iMac based simply on extremely consistent reliability and usability over the past 4 years.

I often run both side by side with my gaming. I've said on Ventrilo too often: "Windows has blue screened again - brb".

The Apple hardware - not a single issue.
I've admined Windows and Unix hardware. Turning my back on Windows, and haven't had a better time with hardware than finally moving to Apple in 2010.

Last edited by inodes; Jul 24, 2013 at 12:45 AM.
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Old Jul 24, 2013, 03:17 AM   #14
snapdragonx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreemanW View Post
The last PC (a decent hot rod box with a Core2Duo Conroe) I built for my office cost just about what I spent on my late 2012 27" iMac (loaded with every top end option except a 756GB SSD).

With inflation, that means that I spent less for the iMac, whose performance blows that custom built PC out of the water.

So . . . . . . . . your defined/asserted landscape has some problems.
I priced up a Windows PC + 27" monitor with the same specs as the 2012 iMac (GTX680, i7 3770, etc) and it came out at $800 less than the iMac.

But in saying that, Apple's prices are hugely marked up here in NZ.
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Old Jul 24, 2013, 07:13 AM   #15
iamgalactic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snapdragonx View Post
I priced up a Windows PC + 27" monitor with the same specs as the 2012 iMac (GTX680, i7 3770, etc) and it came out at $800 less than the iMac.

But in saying that, Apple's prices are hugely marked up here in NZ.
did it have USB3, Thunderbolt and (most importantly) a fantastic manufacturer warranty? was the monitor in the same class as the iMac screen?

(not to mention OSX - which is worth a chunk of money, more than what Apple charge for it in the App Store)
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Old Jul 24, 2013, 09:55 AM   #16
glasgood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razeus View Post
With the bizarre pricing and sub-optimal parts choices of the 2012 iMacs, how many switched to a Windows based system?
iMac's do offer very good value for money in comparison to a PC.

Lets look at the entry level 27 inch iMac at a cost of 1499.00.

Specifications:
  • 2.9GHz Core i5 Intel 3470S
  • 8GB 1600MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x4GB
  • 1TB Serial ATA Drive @ 7200 rpm
  • NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M 512MB GDDR5
  • FaceTime Camera
  • Apple Magic Mouse
  • Apple Wireless Keyboard
  • OSX Mountain Lion

Pro's: low power draw and small footprint, no noisy whirring fans, aesthetic design.
Con's: Aftermarket upgrades.


Now let's compare this to a PC with similar specifications.

( All prices taken from SCAN computers, 24 July 2013 ).

Cost of Parts to build a similar PC with a 27 inch Monitor is 1670.12
  • Dell UltraSharp LED 27" Monitor IPS U2713HM with 4 Port USB 3.0 = 419.12
  • Windows 8 Pro 64 Bit DVD FQC-05955 OEM = 105.36
  • Corsair Memory Vengeance Jet Black 8GB DDR3 PC3-12800 (1600)= 56.16
  • Intel CPU Core i5 3470S includes Heatsink and Fan - Retail = 152.58
  • EVGA GeForce GTX 660 NVIDIA Graphics Card - 2GB = 159.19
  • Asus P8Z77-V Premium Thunderbolt Motherboard Intel Z77 S1155 = 239.72
  • Hitachi HTS721010A9E630 2.5" 1TB SATA III 7200RPM 1TB = 62.52
  • Corsair Enthusiast TX V2 CP-9020042-UK 750W Power Supply = 89.94
  • Logitech K750 Wireless Solar Keyboard = 64.32
  • Microsoft Arc Mouse Wireless Black PC/MAC = 29.96
  • Logitech B910 HD Webcam 5Mpix HD 720P 30fps Carl Zeiss Optics 62.29
  • Corsair Obsidian 800D Black Tower Computer Case = 228.96

Pros: Slightly more powerfull graphics card. Aftermarket upgrades if needed.
Cons: Large footprint, larger power draw, noisy fans. MS Windows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razeus View Post
bizarre pricing
The pricing seems very very reasonable for an iMac. Each to their own

Last edited by glasgood; Jul 24, 2013 at 12:32 PM. Reason: add web camera
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Old Jul 25, 2013, 01:47 AM   #17
aggri1
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I haven't yet, but will be getting a standard PC when the time comes, rather than replace my 2010 iMac with a newer one. Several factors are relevant in my case:
* online banking and so forth, for which I want to use Mac OS, will probably still work perfectly well on the 2010 iMac for a long time yet (even my 2003 PowerMac can do that stuff, just a bit slowly).
* A new computer would mainly be for 3D modelling/design or simulation or for playing newer games - and for those things a desktop graphics card would be more cost-effective, and perhaps more significantly, I'd be using Windows anyway.
* The iMac's screen can be the screen for a new PC.
So count me (a long-time Apple user) as someone who'll switch away.
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Old Jul 25, 2013, 01:57 AM   #18
Nightarchaon
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I will be building a PC this year in lieu of upgrading to a new iMac because i don't like the sealed nature of the new iMacs, The 2011 was liveable with, i have added my own after market SSD at a fraction the cost of apples options, and more than double the size that was on offer at the time, and should the inevitable happen, and the HDD fails down the line, ill replace it with a 512gb or higher SSD and go entirely SSD internally, as my main storage drive is an external network Raid anyway.

The PC i will be building is around 900 cheaper than the top of the line BTO imac at the moment, and beats the snot out of it on specifications. And, is it will be only a "games console" for me, i will continue to use my 2011 iMac as my productivity machine (Mainly because a 1000w PSU is going to cost the earth to run 24/7 when compared to an iMac)

PCs for gaming, Hell yes, for productivity, cant beat the iMac
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Old Jul 25, 2013, 04:56 PM   #19
tekmoe
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Just picked up my brand new 27" iMac. Yayyyyuuuhhhhh! Ain't no bizarre pricing from my end of the spectrum - totally worth the money. And sub-optimal parts? lmao
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Old Jul 27, 2013, 04:52 PM   #20
cats4jan
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Quote:
plus no ugly box sitting on the floor
You can get a Windows all-in-one - it will even have a touch screen - although you do not need to touch your screen if you do not wish to. I thought a touch screen on a desktop seemed kinda silly, but I did find I was using it more often than I thought I would.

Returned the Window 8 all-in-one because I was given a mid-2011 Mac desktop.

The PC was a nice computer with a great monitor - although I struggled with W8. And I'm still struggling with this Mac - so it must be me and not the computer. Either machine does the job.
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Old Jul 27, 2013, 06:13 PM   #21
cirus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glasgood View Post
iMac's do offer very good value for money in comparison to a PC.

Lets look at the entry level 27 inch iMac at a cost of 1499.00.

Specifications:
  • 2.9GHz Core i5 Intel 3470S
  • 8GB 1600MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x4GB
  • 1TB Serial ATA Drive @ 7200 rpm
  • NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M 512MB GDDR5
  • FaceTime Camera
  • Apple Magic Mouse
  • Apple Wireless Keyboard
  • OSX Mountain Lion

Pro's: low power draw and small footprint, no noisy whirring fans, aesthetic design.
Con's: Aftermarket upgrades.


Now let's compare this to a PC with similar specifications.

( All prices taken from SCAN computers, 24 July 2013 ).

Cost of Parts to build a similar PC with a 27 inch Monitor is 1670.12
  • Dell UltraSharp LED 27" Monitor IPS U2713HM with 4 Port USB 3.0 = 419.12
  • Windows 8 Pro 64 Bit DVD FQC-05955 OEM = 105.36
  • Corsair Memory Vengeance Jet Black 8GB DDR3 PC3-12800 (1600)= 56.16
  • Intel CPU Core i5 3470S includes Heatsink and Fan - Retail = 152.58
  • EVGA GeForce GTX 660 NVIDIA Graphics Card - 2GB = 159.19
  • Asus P8Z77-V Premium Thunderbolt Motherboard Intel Z77 S1155 = 239.72
  • Hitachi HTS721010A9E630 2.5" 1TB SATA III 7200RPM 1TB = 62.52
  • Corsair Enthusiast TX V2 CP-9020042-UK 750W Power Supply = 89.94
  • Logitech K750 Wireless Solar Keyboard = 64.32
  • Microsoft Arc Mouse Wireless Black PC/MAC = 29.96
  • Logitech B910 HD Webcam 5Mpix HD 720P 30fps Carl Zeiss Optics 62.29
  • Corsair Obsidian 800D Black Tower Computer Case = 228.96

Pros: Slightly more powerfull graphics card. Aftermarket upgrades if needed.
Cons: Large footprint, larger power draw, noisy fans. MS Windows.



The pricing seems very very reasonable for an iMac. Each to their own
You put a lot of premium things on that PC; keyboard, webcam, case are are quite pricey. And a $300 case (which is probably going to sit beneath the desk). (PSU could be dropped down to a 650 watt unit). Why windows Pro when 99% of the consumer population uses home premium and has no problem without the 'pro' features.

Plus the face that you are doing the classic thing of biasing the comparison towards the imac by requiring everything that the imac has be in the PC regardless of whether or not 99% of the population would ever use it (like a TB mobo).

And if you are going to put a 660 in the PC you better compare it to the 675mx upgraded version.

While the imac screen is very nice you must also consider that to many a 27" 1440p screen is seen as a plus, not a necessity. Given the choice many decide not to spend to money on a 27" 1440p display evidenced by the lack of 1440p displays in the consumer market.

Ultimately for this to be a fair comparison the basis must be on what is required to fulfill one's needs (OS agnostic). If one includes frills that will not be needed then these cannot be a required feature on the other system. Like how many people actually use TB for TB (not minidisplayport).
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Old Jul 27, 2013, 07:15 PM   #22
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Whilst iMac's represent bad value for money for me, I cannot go back to using Windows after having used OSX for the last 2 years on my hackintosh and MBP.

I absolutely find it a tragedy that Apple doesn't provide a solid desktop, built with desktop components (SSD + data drive, GFX card), worthy of their great OSX.

SSD+data drive needs to be standard.
A GFX card with minimum 1Gig Ram for 27" screens should be standard.
Just don't get me started on using laptop hard drives and laptop GFX cards but ofc that ship sailed long ago with the thin aesthetics crap.
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Old Jul 27, 2013, 08:14 PM   #23
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I returned my 2012 27-inch iMac earlier this year and bought a Dell U2713HM and XPS 8500. I didn't make the change because of prices, though. I exchanged my iMac several times due to problems with the display, and I got tired of having to return the whole thing just for a display problem. On the last return, I hauled the heavy thing into the store planning to exchange it again, but after a long exhausting walk to the store I said forget it, and I asked for a refund. (My Apple Store is in a mall.)

I don't need a Mac, but I do miss OS X. I keep thinking about trying the iMac again once they're updated, but I dread the thought of going back to an all-in-one.

I wish Apple would release a Mac Mini with the iMac innards and just call it a Mac. I also wish they'd go back to making screens in multiple sizes. I'd love to have a 24-inch Retina Cinema Display.

Last edited by Lava Lamp Freak; Jul 28, 2013 at 10:38 AM.
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Old Jul 28, 2013, 02:04 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightarchaon View Post
I will be building a PC this year in lieu of upgrading to a new iMac because i don't like the sealed nature of the new iMacs, The 2011 was liveable with, i have added my own after market SSD at a fraction the cost of apples options, and more than double the size that was on offer at the time, and should the inevitable happen, and the HDD fails down the line, ill replace it with a 512gb or higher SSD and go entirely SSD internally, as my main storage drive is an external network Raid anyway.

The PC i will be building is around 900 cheaper than the top of the line BTO imac at the moment, and beats the snot out of it on specifications. And, is it will be only a "games console" for me, i will continue to use my 2011 iMac as my productivity machine (Mainly because a 1000w PSU is going to cost the earth to run 24/7 when compared to an iMac)

PCs for gaming, Hell yes, for productivity, cant beat the iMac
I do bemoan the sealed nature of the new iMac.... slightly. It's ok because the benefits outweigh the cons. I will only ever upgrade the Mac's HD every 2-4 years. I'm ok with spending an hour cutting and re-sealing the machine every 2-4 years.
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Old Jul 28, 2013, 05:38 PM   #25
Nightarchaon
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I do bemoan the sealed nature of the new iMac.... slightly. It's ok because the benefits outweigh the cons. I will only ever upgrade the Mac's HD every 2-4 years. I'm ok with spending an hour cutting and re-sealing the machine every 2-4 years.
I will probably never upgrade my iMac again (Unless the HDD fails, then ill swap it out for an SSD)

However, i like having a PC about, purely as a games console, and the ability to swap out the GPU cards (at close to the cost of a new iMac, for Exponentially more performance in the one area i want, is just the BIG problem with the iMac IMO)

i think the 2011 iMac was the ideal shape and size, all they needed to do was re-jig the internals a bit, keep the Ram in the middle at the bottom and have two extra doors either side with 2.5" slots for laptop sized HDDs, user replaceable ones.

Which is why my 2011 iMac will probably be the last apple product i buy (The new Pro is useless to me (because id be gaming on it under bootcamp and want to be able to upgrade the GPUs with off the shelf non-apple parts), and I'm loath to buy anything i cant replace the HDDs on myself in under five minutes, if i need to unseal, unglue and spend 30 minutes labelling screws to remember where they are going, all because Ive doesn't like things like access doors ruining HIS lines.. and apple want to sell you over priced proprietary components because , well, they need to keep that war chest stocked now that Jobs is gone and his reality distortion field is fading.

Love Mac OS, but it, not the hardware, was the reason i bought a Mac, Windows Vista moved me from PCs to Macs, Windows 8 is making sure i only use a PC for gaming, my work horse, my go to productivity machine, will be my 2011 iMac, and when it can no longer cut it, im hoping that Apples board sees that ives push for a thinner, unusable machine, is actually the WRONG way to go.
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