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Old Jul 24, 2013, 08:34 PM   #1
MacNut
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The NSA gets to keep it's evil ways.

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WASHINGTON (AP) The House narrowly rejected a challenge to the National Security Agency's secret collection of hundreds of millions of Americans' phone records Wednesday night after a fierce debate pitting privacy rights against the government's efforts to thwart terrorism.

The vote was 217-205 on an issue that created unusual political coalitions in Washington, with libertarian-leaning conservatives and liberal Democrats pressing for the change against the Obama administration, the Republican establishment and Congress' national security experts.

The showdown vote marked the first chance for lawmakers to take a stand on the secret surveillance program since former NSA systems analyst Edward Snowden leaked classified documents last month that spelled out the monumental scope of the government's activities.

Backing the NSA program were 134 Republicans and 83 Democrats, including House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, who typically does not vote, and Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi. Rejecting the administration's last-minute pleas to spare the surveillance operation were 94 Republicans and 111 Democrats.

It is unlikely to be the final word on government intrusion to defend the nation and Americans' civil liberties.

"Have 12 years gone by and our memories faded so badly that we forgot what happened on Sept. 11?" Rep. Mike Rogers, R-Mich., chairman of the Intelligence Committee, said in pleading with his colleagues to back the program during House debate.

Republican Rep. Justin Amash of Michigan, chief sponsor of the repeal effort, said his aim was to end the indiscriminate collection of Americans' phone records.

His measure, offered as an addition to a $598.3 billion defense spending bill for 2014, would have canceled the statutory authority for the NSA program, ending the agency's ability to collect phone records and metadata under the USA Patriot Act unless it identified an individual under investigation.

The House later voted to pass the overall defense bill, 315-109.

Amash told the House that his effort was to defend the Constitution and "defend the privacy of every American."

"Opponents of this amendment will use the same tactic that every government throughout history has used to justify its violation of rights: Fear," he said. "They'll tell you that the government must violate the rights of the American people to protect us against those who hate our freedom."

The unlikely political coalitions were on full display during a spirited but brief House debate.

"Let us not deal in false narratives. Let's deal in facts that will keep Americans safe," said Rep. Michele Bachmann, R-Minn., a member of the Intelligence committee who implored her colleagues to back a program that she argued was vital in combatting terrorism.

But Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., a senior member of the Judiciary Committee who helped write the Patriot Act, insisted "the time has come" to stop the collection of phone records that goes far beyond what he envisioned.

Several Republicans acknowledged the difficulty in balancing civil liberties against national security, but expressed suspicion about the Obama administration's implementation of the NSA programs and anger at Director of National Intelligence James Clapper.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/backe...ttle-challenge
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Old Jul 24, 2013, 10:27 PM   #2
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Sad, but no surprise. I'm pretty sure even if it had passed Obama would have tried vetoing it and making them pass another bill without the amendment.
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Old Jul 24, 2013, 10:30 PM   #3
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Shocked there hasn't been more public outrage and outcry over the whole mess. That's the scary part ... too many people just trying to make a living to pay attention to what's going on out there.
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Old Jul 24, 2013, 10:37 PM   #4
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Anyone who thinks there is a "good" political party would be smart to re-read this bit.

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Backing the NSA program were 134 Republicans and 83 Democrats, including House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, who typically does not vote, and Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi. Rejecting the administration's last-minute pleas to spare the surveillance operation were 94 Republicans and 111 Democrats.
Check how your rep. voted and boot their ass in the next election. Tell your friends and family they are advocates for violating the privacy of the American people.

People talk about the slippery slope. We'll guess what, you're skiing on it already.
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Old Jul 24, 2013, 11:17 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post
Anyone who thinks there is a "good" political party would be smart to re-read this bit.



Check how your rep. voted and boot their ass in the next election. Tell your friends and family they are advocates for violating the privacy of the American people.

People talk about the slippery slope. We'll guess what, you're skiing on it already.
Definitely! We're gonna primary these biotches!

The effing neocons rearing their ugly heads again. They were the most effective damage that the Democrats could have ever hoped to visit on the Republican Party, a real Trojan Horse op.

Still given all the dirt that the NSA likely has on each and every member of Congress, I'm surprised the bill got as far as it did. And as Mr. Kramer said, no way Obummer was going to let that live.

>
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Old Jul 25, 2013, 12:19 AM   #6
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If anyone is interested in seeing how their rep voted you can see here. I was glad to see that my rep voted for the amendment, I usually disagree with him on most things, but here he did the right thing.
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Old Jul 25, 2013, 12:19 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post
Anyone who thinks there is a "good" political party would be smart to re-read this bit.



Check how your rep. voted and boot their ass in the next election. Tell your friends and family they are advocates for violating the privacy of the American people.

People talk about the slippery slope. We'll guess what, you're skiing on it already.
This just gets added to the list of reason I want my rep out of office. Beside being one of the bat **** crazy tea party guys.
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Old Jul 25, 2013, 12:33 AM   #8
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"Evil" is a bit hyperbolic.

But at least congress has had it's say.

If you don't like the way your representative voted, you at least have some recourse.

My guy (Dem.) voted against.
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Old Jul 25, 2013, 12:34 AM   #9
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For now, the House bill may have failed but the issue could still end up in the Supreme Court...

The Supreme Court May Be the Best Hope to Stop the NSA
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Old Jul 25, 2013, 12:35 AM   #10
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For now, the House bill may have failed but the issue could still end up in the Supreme Court...
Sounds to me as if it needs to end up there.
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Old Jul 25, 2013, 12:37 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by mrkramer View Post
If anyone is interested in seeing how their rep voted you can see here. I was glad to see that my rep voted for the amendment, I usually disagree with him on most things, but here he did the right thing.
My rep voted for the amendment as well.

I think it's hilarious that Bachman and Pelosi agree that spying on the American people is a good thing...Kinda crazy since they are supposed to be on opposite sides of the spectrum...

Or maybe they are all in the same "good ol boy" club, and everything else is political theater for the stupid.

----------

Quote:
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For now, the House bill may have failed but the issue could still end up in the Supreme Court...

The Supreme Court May Be the Best Hope to Stop the NSA
Lately, I'm not so sure that is a consolation.
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Old Jul 25, 2013, 12:59 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by citizenzen View Post
"Evil" is a bit hyperbolic.

But at least congress has had it's say.

If you don't like the way your representative voted, you at least have some recourse.

My guy (Dem.) voted against.
What the NSA is doing is seedy and I would say a part of the evil government machine. They are not doing it for good that's for sure.
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Old Jul 25, 2013, 01:07 AM   #13
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They are not doing it for good that's for sure.
Well it's not helping to feed the hungry and clothe the poor, if that's what you mean.
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Old Jul 25, 2013, 01:36 AM   #14
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Well it's not helping to feed the hungry and clothe the poor, if that's what you mean.
Few would argue that deep packet inspection is shining example of works of mercy.
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Old Jul 25, 2013, 09:05 AM   #15
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This just gets added to the list of reason I want my rep out of office. Beside being one of the bat **** crazy tea party guys.
I would think that the Tea Party guys would have been less likely to vote against limiting the NSA.

>
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Old Jul 25, 2013, 09:08 AM   #16
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I would think that the Tea Party guys would have been less likely to vote against limiting the NSA.

>
Either why the guy is a bat **** crazy tea party guy. Who has even said that he does not care about anyone unless they votes for him.
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Old Jul 25, 2013, 09:22 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by citizenzen View Post

My guy (Dem.) voted against.
Your rep (Dem.) voted against the challenge as did my rep (Dem.) - he's definitely not my guy - or did he vote for the challenge and thus against the spying program?

>

----------

Perhaps more telling are those who did not vote (like McCarthy), who may have known and believed that it was wrong to vote no, or (more likely) thought it would be politically dangerous to vote no in their district, but were persuaded to abstain so that the measure would fail.

Those are your real politicos who deserve being primaried.

>

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Who has even said that he does not care about anyone unless they votes for him.
That just makes him a (rather poor) politician, and has nothing to do with the Tea Party.

>
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Old Jul 25, 2013, 09:25 AM   #18
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This just gets added to the list of reason I want my rep out of office. Beside being one of the bat **** crazy tea party guys.
I feel the same way about my Rep. Even though he voted YES he is a nut job liberal and needs to go.
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Old Jul 25, 2013, 09:56 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by NewishMacGuy View Post


Perhaps more telling are those who did not vote (like McCarthy), who may have known and believed that it was wrong to vote no, or (more likely) thought it would be politically dangerous to vote no in their district, but were persuaded to abstain so that the measure would fail.
Those are your real politicos who deserve being primaried.


In the middle of drafting a nasty email to her as she's my Congresswoman. She's a one issue politician who is completely ineffective.
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Old Jul 25, 2013, 10:36 AM   #20
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That just makes him a (rather poor) politician, and has nothing to do with the Tea Party.

>
While it is true that makes him a poor politician the sad part is his attitude is the norm for the GOP at this point and that goes double for the Tea Partiers as they only care more about their primary voters so they care about an even smaller subset of their district.
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Old Jul 25, 2013, 10:40 AM   #21
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This just gets added to the list of reason I want my rep out of office. Beside being one of the bat **** crazy tea party guys.
Not a very good tea party type to be voting against protecting the privacy of people. Who are we talking about? I'm curious about their overall voting record now.
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Old Jul 25, 2013, 11:04 AM   #22
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I am disappointed. I would like a printout on how voted to continue this practice. I think I would vote for the representative who voted to continue the spying in the name of "security". The people who voted to continue this should be voted out of office.
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Old Jul 25, 2013, 11:41 AM   #23
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Few would argue that deep packet inspection is shining example of works of mercy.
DPI? I thought this whole kerfuffle was over keeping American cellphone call metadata (who calls who, at what time, etc).
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Old Jul 25, 2013, 12:50 PM   #24
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Sad, but no surprise. I'm pretty sure even if it had passed Obama would have tried vetoing it and making them pass another bill without the amendment.
It's a start. The fact that the vote was actually close is cause for celebration.

This isn't over yet. It's only been in the news for a few months now.
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Old Jul 25, 2013, 12:53 PM   #25
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Shocked there hasn't been more public outrage and outcry over the whole mess. That's the scary part ... too many people just trying to make a living to pay attention to what's going on out there.
Why shocked? The majority of the American people accept the program as a necessary evil. We are not fools.
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