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Old Jul 28, 2013, 10:21 AM   #1
MacNut
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Madison Square Garden has 10 years to move.

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Madison Square Garden, one of the world's iconic sports and entertainment arenas, has been given a decade to relocate after a vote by the New York City Council on Wednesday amid efforts to renovate the equally well-known Penn Station that sits below it.
The council voted to approve a "special permit" that will allow the arena to operate for 10 years while its management seeks to relocate, according to a news release.
The 47-1 vote comes after years of advocacy from city officials and independent groups who have sought to renovate and expand the bustling Pennsylvania Station. Madison Square Garden's 50-year land-use permit expired in January.
The original Penn Station, which featured Corinthian columns, vast hallways and glass ceilings, was demolished in 1963 to make way for the construction of the current Madison Square Garden, which opened in 1968.
"The approval of this permit offers us a great opportunity to reimagine and redevelop Penn Station as a world-class transportation destination and allow time to relocate Madison Square Garden to a new and improved home," Council Speaker and mayoral candidate Christine C. Quinn said in a statement.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/25/us/new...html?hpt=us_c2

So they want to rebuild Penn Station, why not think of that before tearing it down. And then wait until after MSG went through a 3 year 1 billion dollar renovation.
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Old Jul 28, 2013, 11:31 AM   #2
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I'm sure it'll end up in court.
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Old Jul 28, 2013, 12:40 PM   #3
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I'm sure 10 years will turn into 30. And due to the MSG group putting so much money into renovations, they'll make the city/state bend over and pump out hundreds of million in public funds to build a new arena when the time comes.
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Old Jul 28, 2013, 12:54 PM   #4
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Good. Penn right now isn't the best considering how busy it gets. Needs to be a proper train station. And they need to make right by it after tearing down the original station.
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Old Jul 28, 2013, 01:00 PM   #5
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Good. Penn right now isn't the best considering how busy it gets. Needs to be a proper train station. And they need to make right by it after tearing down the original station.
I agree but why turn down the plans to build a new MSG 5 years ago. Don't have them renovate first then tell them to leave.
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Old Jul 28, 2013, 01:04 PM   #6
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I agree but why turn down the plans to build a new MSG 5 years ago. Don't have them renovate first then tell them to leave.
$1 billion fine for destroying history....

Politics for you.... It took the Yankees 4 years of lobbying for them to ditch OYS for the new $1.5 billion NYS..... Another crime against history there as well.
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Old Jul 28, 2013, 01:06 PM   #7
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$1 billion fine for destroying history....

Politics for you.... It took the Yankees 4 years of lobbying for them to ditch OYS for the new $1.5 billion NYS..... Another crime against history there as well.
I hate to admit but OYS was a dump. The MSG group wanted to build a new arena but were turned down by the city so they remodeled. Now the city tells them to move.
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Old Jul 28, 2013, 01:15 PM   #8
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I hate to admit but OYS was a dump. The MSG group wanted to build a new arena but were turned down by the city so they remodeled. Now the city tells them to move.
Because Steinbrenner didn't do anything to continually improve OYS or even look into renovating it again. Fenway was getting pretty bad before its renovations. I'm sure Wrigley will greatly improve when its renovations are complete. Steinbrenner was completely focused on getting a new stadium. He had to get the public on his side by getting them think OYS was falling apart, etc.

The biggest issue though wasn't that NYS was built. It's that they could not save at least portions of the old stadium to incorporate into the park. The bat and one piece of the concrete frieze doesn't count....
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Old Aug 6, 2013, 03:10 PM   #9
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In my neck of the woods, that's not a big deal. Throw the wheels back on, back up the truck, and move.
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Old Aug 6, 2013, 10:49 PM   #10
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In my neck of the woods, that's not a big deal. Throw the wheels back on, back up the truck, and move.
Hah. Gonna take a mighty big truck

Anyhoo, Eminent domain, here we go!
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Old Aug 7, 2013, 10:58 AM   #11
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Hah. Gonna take a mighty big truck

Anyhoo, Eminent domain, here we go!
I don't think eminent domain is needed. The city/state already owns the property, the only question is whether they can terminate the lease.
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Old Aug 7, 2013, 11:04 AM   #12
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I don't think eminent domain is needed. The city/state already owns the property, the only question is whether they can terminate the lease.
The city only authorized another 10 year lease. They can kick the MSG group out after that. The issue is that they allowed the renovations to happen in the first place if their intent was to kick them out. MSG wanted to build a new building years ago and were turned down.
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Old Aug 7, 2013, 11:27 AM   #13
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MSG does not have much choice at this point. They have 10 years and then they are SOL.


The fact that the city denied MSG moving thereby forcing renovations, and then turn around and say "Well, we changed our mind... you have 10 years then we take the land and demolish the building whether you like it or not." pretty much sucks.
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Old Aug 10, 2013, 09:21 PM   #14
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Such a waste of money!

Lets see......spend $1billion on renovating a train station or hire ~1,300 teachers for 10 years. Hrm.......

(No wonder this country is ****ed)

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"Imagine 220 mph bullet trains that sweep you to D.C. or Boston in 90 minutes or less. These plans are on the table, but they can only be realized with a modern, renovated Penn Station," said Manhattan Borough President and city comptroller candidate Scott M. Stringer. "That is not possible as long as the Garden sits squarely on top of the nation's busiest rail transit hub."
Yeah, and flying is both faster and cheaper.
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Old Aug 10, 2013, 10:52 PM   #15
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Yeah, and flying is both faster and cheaper.
Flying is a major inconvenience when the distance is short though. Sure a train between NYC and LA wouldn't be practical. But, a bullet train going at 220 MPH in the Northeast corridor would be great. The Acela Express between DC and NYC is a lifesaver. No airport security, etc. Show up for an 11 am train at 10:40 am and arrive in the middle of Manhattan.

A lot of the times, the cost of the Northeast Regional or Acela is the same amount as flying. If not cheaper if you're booking last minute. And you're not stuffed into a tin can.
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Last edited by quagmire; Aug 10, 2013 at 10:57 PM.
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Old Aug 11, 2013, 12:11 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by MacNut View Post
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/25/us/new...html?hpt=us_c2

So they want to rebuild Penn Station, why not think of that before tearing it down. And then wait until after MSG went through a 3 year 1 billion dollar renovation.
Mmm.... Lobby? In other words... there is money always involved that has to keep moving in certain circles. You know... the contractors needs work and those same contractors pay a commission to many other people and we are all happy.

That is the way it is. I remember years ago, Boing was not doing much and the government asked the arabs to buy 3 planes and the arabs did. So, Boing had something to do instead of firing people. Those circles are like that.
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Old Aug 11, 2013, 10:36 AM   #17
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Unless the City of New York is willing to help partially fund the construction of a new arena in Manhattan (maybe at a West Side location!) that may cost as much as US$2 billion, no way the owners of MSG will move the out of the current arena--not with the renovations done in the past several years that have made it just as good as any arena for basketball/hockey out there.

(By the way, preservationists may hate me for saying this, but I think based on the old photos I've seen of the old Pennsylvania Station structure, the upkeep on that building was WAY too expensive considering how extremely ornate the interior and exterior of the building was. The Pennsylvania Railroad should have replaced it with a simpler, but still architecturally striking structure instead of selling out to build Madison Square Garden and the offices nearby where the Pennsylvania Station building once existed.)
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Old Aug 11, 2013, 10:54 AM   #18
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Unless the City of New York is willing to help partially fund the construction of a new arena in Manhattan (maybe at a West Side location!) that may cost as much as US$2 billion, no way the owners of MSG will move the out of the current arena--not with the renovations done in the past several years that have made it just as good as any arena for basketball/hockey out there.

(By the way, preservationists may hate me for saying this, but I think based on the old photos I've seen of the old Pennsylvania Station structure, the upkeep on that building was WAY too expensive considering how extremely ornate the interior and exterior of the building was. The Pennsylvania Railroad should have replaced it with a simpler, but still architecturally striking structure instead of selling out to build Madison Square Garden and the offices nearby where the Pennsylvania Station building once existed.)
It doesn't matter what MSG group wants. When the lease is up in 10 years and the city doesn't want them there anymore, they are screwed. The land is NYC's land. The owners of MSG are just leasing it.
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Old Aug 11, 2013, 11:00 PM   #19
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It doesn't matter what MSG group wants. When the lease is up in 10 years and the city doesn't want them there anymore, they are screwed. The land is NYC's land. The owners of MSG are just leasing it.
This gives the people in New York City ten years to elect some politicians with common sense. I bet it doesn't happen.
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Old Aug 11, 2013, 11:03 PM   #20
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This gives the people in New York City ten years to elect some politicians with common sense. I bet it doesn't happen.
Common sense is to renovate Penn Station to make it able to handle the high amount of traffic and the new high speed trains. For that to happen, MSG has to move.

Union Station in DC is already getting ready to be renovated to handle these trains.

Thumb resize.

Thumb resize.
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Old Aug 12, 2013, 12:14 AM   #21
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I'm sure 10 years will turn into 30. And due to the MSG group putting so much money into renovations, they'll make the city/state bend over and pump out hundreds of million in public funds to build a new arena when the time comes.
Hate to say it but I completely agree with you. Cities and sports leagues don't want privately financed stadiums. They want to be funded with public money. I've only really learned about this since moving to Seattle.
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Old Sep 2, 2013, 02:37 PM   #22
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This is the largest city in the world... Crossroads of the planet , the best of everything... They will find a good spot on the Hudson and make it a top knotch venue. We should have nothing less. Our stadiums lasted so long because we don't find it easy to tear down iconic history in general. I would imagine Bloomberg wanting to have his hand in a new MSG. Does not look likely though.
I say give Trump the job and turn him loose. If up to him we have the largest , the tallest. Etc. not the third largest ...
Btw, it's off topic but although I say God bless freedom tower, there should be " twin " towers there. Not one . If it were up to Silverstein, he would have went cheesy on everything at the trade center. More $ to pocket. One tower is and will always magnify the black eye we took that horrible day. Sorry for the topic lane change
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Old Sep 2, 2013, 04:18 PM   #23
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This is the largest city in the world... Crossroads of the planet , the best of everything... They will find a good spot on the Hudson and make it a top knotch venue. We should have nothing less. Our stadiums lasted so long because we don't find it easy to tear down iconic history in general. I would imagine Bloomberg wanting to have his hand in a new MSG. Does not look likely though.
Didn't find it very hard to tear down OYS.... Never tried to determine viability of another renovation or did try to keep some of the structure standing.....

It did take Steinbrenner 20 years to get a new stadium, but once he found a politician corrupt enough....
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Old Sep 2, 2013, 11:14 PM   #24
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I bet it goes to New Jersey just like the Giants/Jets MetLife.
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Old Sep 4, 2013, 10:09 AM   #25
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I bet it goes to New Jersey just like the Giants/Jets MetLife.
I highly doubt the Knicks or Rangers move to Jersey.
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