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Old Jul 29, 2013, 03:43 PM   #1
Zombie Acorn
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Toronto Police: Don't bring a knife to a gun fight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi4In494rAg

So this is a couple of blocks down the street. I take this streetcar almost daily. Some whackjob basically hijacks a streetcar at knife point (driver opens all doors and everyone rushes out). He is then put in a standoff situation with police and will not drop his weapon. Police tell him to drop the weapon and he continues to stand there, looks like he starts towards the doors and the police light him up.

Tazer policeman comes after the shooting occurs, not really sure why they tazer him after he has been shot.

Now for the amazing part the liberals will love. The papers are turning this into a police brutality issue and attempting to steamroll them for taking out this garbage. People have even been calling it Trayvon Martin #2.

There is going to be a candle light vigil at dundas square for a 18 year old who hijacked a streetcar at knife point. Can't imagine the extreme amount of ******** the police are going to have to deal with now.

Personally I thank the police for handling this difficult situation and keeping everyone except for this person who brandished a knife on a public transit car safe. My family travels on this streetcar and I hope this does not dissuade police from using lethal force in the future if a similar incident should occur (you never know if they have a gun or a hostage underneath one of these seats).
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 04:03 PM   #2
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...questions.html

Quote:
Ross McLean, a security expert and former Toronto police officer, studied a version of the video with enhanced video and audio, frame by frame.

'This officer’s going to have to explain why he used the level of force he did.'
—Ross McLean, security expert

He said it raises serious questions about how police handled the confrontation.

On the enhanced video, a six-second jolt from a Taser can be heard after the gunshots, McLean said. Yatim also appears to put his hands over his head at one point on the enhanced video, he said.

McLean says if the officers had waited another minute for the officer with the Taser to arrive instead of opening fire, Yatim might be alive today. "Should you be Tasering someone who’s been shot six or nine times and lying on the ground?” he told CBC News.

McLean says the video also suggests police did not engage the suspect.
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 04:09 PM   #3
.Andy
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Now for the amazing part the liberals will love.
This wasn't even remotely necessary.
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 04:12 PM   #4
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TM had no weapon..

I agree the cops should not have shot.
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 04:52 PM   #5
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This wasn't even remotely necessary.
I agree. Credibility was lost and bias shown with that statement.

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Old Jul 29, 2013, 05:16 PM   #6
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They shot a kid with a pocket knife? And you're trying to excuse it?

You said yourself that the driver opened the doors and the passengers ran off. How could you possibly justify lethal force if there weren't even any passengers on the streetcar at that point?

That cop should be jailed.

Cops need some accountability... too much shoot first ask questions later. I say you should put in a regulation that if a cop shoots someone and it's found unwarranted, he gets shot himself. That would make them think twice before pulling the trigger.
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 05:48 PM   #7
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Couldn't really see where the person was, but it was obvious he was at least 20 feet away from the officers.

I agree with .Andy, this wasn't necessary.

I think all cops should be required to be a corrections officer in a max prison for one year so they learn how do deal with situations without a shoot to kill first reaction.
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 07:47 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Acorn View Post
Now for the amazing part the liberals will love. The papers are turning this into a police brutality issue and attempting to steamroll them for taking out this garbage. People have even been calling it Trayvon Martin #2.
I guess the police chief is a liberal too ...

Quote:
... police Chief Bill Blair told reporters that people "have every right to be concerned" ... "I am also seeking answers to those important questions," he said. He promised an "unwavering commitment" to finding them."
Oh. And the liberal in me doesn't like how you refer to the dead teenager as "garbage".
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 09:37 PM   #9
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Is the driver/conductor still in the car? Couldn't tell, but didn't look like it. If there's no physical threat to anyone on the streetcar and no threat to the officers, using a gun - let alone 6-9 shots - is completely outrageous.

Heads should roll. Police officers should lose their jobs, if not get jail time.

Why couldn't they use less than lethal force? Why not wait for the tazer? Toronto PD doesn't have bean bag rounds? Hell, pepper spray probably would've sufficed. Nothing called for gunfire. Absolutely disgusting.
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 09:53 PM   #10
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I counted 9 shots and one tazer. The perpetrator must've been pretty tough to kill.
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 10:15 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by malman89 View Post
Is the driver/conductor still in the car? Couldn't tell, but didn't look like it. If there's no physical threat to anyone on the streetcar and no threat to the officers, using a gun - let alone 6-9 shots - is completely outrageous.

Heads should roll. Police officers should lose their jobs, if not get jail time.

Why couldn't they use less than lethal force? Why not wait for the tazer? Toronto PD doesn't have bean bag rounds? Hell, pepper spray probably would've sufficed. Nothing called for gunfire. Absolutely disgusting.
Last I checked a knife is a lethal weapon. Im sure you are all fine physical specimens who could dodge a knife blow, disarm the perp and put him in cuffs before anyone got stabbed though.


Not to mention that he has an entire streetcar at his disposal. Shut the doors and hit the gas (electric) and you have a death machine on the loose.
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 10:32 PM   #12
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If I ever wanted to commit suicide by cop, all I have to do is go to Toronto.
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 11:05 PM   #13
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Last I checked a knife is a lethal weapon. Im sure you are all fine physical specimens who could dodge a knife blow, disarm the perp and put him in cuffs before anyone got stabbed though.
And why would that be necessary? Why couldn't these cops have, say, kept their distance and used the very same taser that they shot him with anyway to take the guy down? Wouldn't taken a couple more seconds, but it doesn't appear that anyone was in immediate danger at the time..
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 11:14 PM   #14
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What I'm wondering is why they didn't shoot him with the tazer before shooting him with the bullets. Perhaps the bullets wouldn't have been necessary.
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 11:16 PM   #15
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And why would that be necessary? Why couldn't these cops have, say, kept their distance and used the very same taser that they shot him with anyway to take the guy down? Wouldn't taken a couple more seconds, but it doesn't appear that anyone was in immediate danger at the time..
Its a busy area, if he got out of the street car they wouldn't be able to fire on him and he would be on the loose with a knife. He was heading for the stairs when they shot and the cop with the taser wasn't on scene at this time. If they waited long enough he also had the option of closing the doors and driving the streetcar and killing some people.
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 11:24 PM   #16
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One shot would have been plenty if it was absolutely necessary.

Why did the cops feel the need to shoot? Why the need to shoot multiple times? Why the need to shoot in a densely packed neighborhood?

The suspect wasn't an immediate threat to anyone at the time he was shot from what I can tell. An extreme abuse of force.

Cops should be suspended/fired. The car wasn't going anywhere and neither was the suspect. You can't reverse a shooting. How many cops does it take? I count easily over 7 surrounding an empty street car
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Old Jul 29, 2013, 11:59 PM   #17
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If they waited long enough he also had the option of closing the doors and driving the streetcar and killing some people.
While I'm not in any way an expert on streetcars, shouldn't there be a way to shut the electricity off to that line to keep that from happening?

I would suspect there is.
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Old Jul 30, 2013, 12:34 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Zombie Acorn View Post
Its a busy area, if he got out of the street car they wouldn't be able to fire on him and he would be on the loose with a knife. He was heading for the stairs when they shot and the cop with the taser wasn't on scene at this time. If they waited long enough he also had the option of closing the doors and driving the streetcar and killing some people.
sounds like you're trying to justify the shooting.

Trayvon Martin #2 indeed. Or should we refer to this as "George Zimmerman #2"?



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Old Jul 30, 2013, 12:47 AM   #19
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While I'm not in any way an expert on streetcars, shouldn't there be a way to shut the electricity off to that line to keep that from happening?

I would suspect there is.
You are talking about the TTC, the only way anything happens in a timely matter with them is by accident or pure luck. Union workers.

The cops could have possibly unhooked the electrical out the back, but I doubt any of them are experts on it either.
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Old Jul 30, 2013, 12:48 AM   #20
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It looks like the USA isn't the only country where "shoot first, ask questions later" is the norm. There is no excuse to open fire on anyone no matter how small or big their perceived threat is. Using a gun instead of one's head to solve a problem is nothing more than a sign of one's cowardice and feeble-mindedness.
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Old Jul 30, 2013, 12:52 AM   #21
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sounds like you're trying to justify the shooting.

Trayvon Martin #2 indeed. Or should we refer to this as "George Zimmerman #2"?



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Sends a clear message to would be criminals that we will not be held hostage by their ********. The guy could have not pulled a knife on the TTC, he could have dropped the knife when the police told him to, and he also could have not started for the door when he had multiple guns drawn on him.

I hope the TTC releases the footage from the streetcar.
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Old Jul 30, 2013, 12:54 AM   #22
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Sends a clear message to would be criminals that we will not be held hostage by their ********. The guy could have not pulled a knife on the TTC, he could have dropped the knife when the police told him to, and he also could have not started for the door when he had multiple guns drawn on him.

I hope the TTC releases the footage from the streetcar.
Again, it shows a bit of cowardice and feeble-mindedness on the part of the police, who are trained first and foremost to use their brains in a situation instead of immediately shooting. And if that is supposed to be "a message to would-be criminals", you have just provided the fuel to all out anarchy, because you sure as hell do not use a gun to teach someone a lesson.

Pure and simple cowardice.

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Old Jul 30, 2013, 12:59 AM   #23
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Again, it shows a bit of cowardice and feeble-mindedness on the part of the police, who are trained first and foremost to use their brains in a situation instead of immediately shooting. And if that is supposed to be "a message to would-be criminals", you have just provided the fuel to all out anarchy, because you sure as hell do not use a gun to teach someone a lesson.

Pure and simple cowardice.

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Lethal force was met with lethal force. One stab can equal one life. Id rather it be a criminal who dies than take the chance of an officer who gets paid to deal with this ******** dieing. Luckily everyone was able to go home with their lives intact except for the one person who decided to pull a knife on a public transit car. Shame.
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Old Jul 30, 2013, 01:13 AM   #24
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Lethal force was met with lethal force. One stab can equal one life. Id rather it be a criminal who dies than take the chance of an officer who gets paid to deal with this ******** dieing. Luckily everyone was able to go home with their lives intact except for the one person who decided to pull a knife on a public transit car. Shame.

So shoot the perp before he has the chance to stab anyone.... That's a rather presumptuous and extreme thing to say, don't you think so?
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Old Jul 30, 2013, 01:16 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Zombie Acorn View Post
Lethal force was met with lethal force. One stab can equal one life. Id rather it be a criminal who dies than take the chance of an officer who gets paid to deal with this ******** dieing. Luckily everyone was able to go home with their lives intact except for the one person who decided to pull a knife on a public transit car. Shame.
The officers were not in danger. There were no hostages. Why not simply wait the short time to use non lethal means?
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