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Old Jul 29, 2013, 11:58 PM   #1
phoenixsan
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LaCie 5big dilemma

Long time no post....so cutting the talk....

I have a mounting quantity of files....and drives.......In the range of 12-15 TB. I can trimm out that to 10-12 TB with some work. Well, the thing is this: I come across one LaCie 5 big unit (10 TB), Thunderbolt. Wondering if it is worth to try consolidate my files and do the trimming....

Need to know real world experiences with this hardware. Or suggestions on how to proceed to my storage trouble or about similar hardware, albeit less expensive....


Thanks in advance, as always....

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Old Jul 30, 2013, 04:32 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixsan View Post
I have a mounting quantity of files....and drives.......In the range of 12-15 TB. I can trimm out that to 10-12 TB with some work. Well, the thing is this: I come across one LaCie 5 big unit (10 TB), Thunderbolt. Wondering if it is worth to try consolidate my files and do the trimming....
I would not get a LaCie 5Big and store 10TB of data on it. If any one of the 5 drives fails in that setup, you lose everything.

I would definitely recommend a Drobo in this case. A Drobo 5D with 3TB drives would give you almost 11TB of storage, and you'll be protected against a single drive failure. A DroboPro with the same drives would give you over 16TB of storage and protect you against dual drive failure.

And you can mix and match drive sizes, so you might even be able to use some of the drives you're replacing, and you have a lot of freedom to expand later.
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Old Jul 30, 2013, 10:54 PM   #3
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Well.....

my friend, you had saved me a lot of trouble....Thanks so much........I dont like the prospect of having a disk failing and losing all the info I have. So I would check out the solutions you propose.

How much is the cost of the alternatives you propose? Incidentally this LaCie array can cost me something in the $1300 vecinity....

Thanks again....


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Old Jul 31, 2013, 03:05 PM   #4
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How much is the cost of the alternatives you propose? Incidentally this LaCie array can cost me something in the $1300 vecinity
You can shop around on any of the normal computer parts websites and configure the capacity that you need. If you don't have any drives that you can use in the array already, you're probably looking at $1500 for the Drobo 5D and 5x3TB drives.
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Old Aug 1, 2013, 06:40 AM   #5
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A mac technician warned me not to purchase Lacie as they get repair or warranty claims from customers of Lacie external devices. He thinks the problem is more of the casing structure. Though I haven't had experiences using Lacie products and may be an isolated case.
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Old Aug 1, 2013, 07:16 AM   #6
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Be sure to get NAS or Enterprise rated hard drives. In the event of a drive failure your array can be brought down by an error during the rebuild if you use desktop class hard drives. The only real difference between the two is how they deal with errors.

They are a more expensive but worth it. The best priced ones I know of are the Western Digital Red Drives.

I personally like Synology for the NAS. You can get the DS1513+ or DS1512+ the differences between the two I can find is the DS1513+ is considerably faster, can hold slightly more RAM and has four instead of two gigabit Ethernet ports. You can also expand them with 5bay addons the DX513 or 2bay DX213 (DS1513+ only) their is a two expansion module limit.

If you want a little more room to grow and don't want to add expansion modules you can get the 8-bay DS1812+ or DS1813+. These can also use the same modules. Besides being 8bay they should be pretty much the same as the corresponding 5-bay units.
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Old Aug 1, 2013, 07:16 AM   #7
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I can vouch for the Drobo 5D. It's fast and quiet.
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Old Aug 1, 2013, 08:32 AM   #8
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I would also suggest a good look at the synology stuff. I have an old synology (410 series) that is still happily running in 24/7 some 6years later (and thats still installed in Gibraltar where ambit temps are high).

Their newer boxes (as suggested elsewhere in this thread) are good choices. Data security and one of the best web interfaces in the game. They support time machine also and can run other jobs on them (from web servers and galleries to online encryption, media servers etc).
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Old Aug 1, 2013, 08:46 AM   #9
iamgalactic
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nonsense

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalLights View Post
I would not get a LaCie 5Big and store 10TB of data on it. If any one of the 5 drives fails in that setup, you lose everything.
This is only true if you have the LaCie set up in RAID 0.

The same thing would happen with a Drobo or any other array setup as RAID 0!

So, you can setup the LaCie with 3 disks in RAID 0 for speed and 2 (hot swappable) disks in Raid 1 for safety.

Of course, with a 10tb version it effectively means you've only got 6tb of RAID 0 space and 2tb of RAID 0. With the 20tb version you'd have 12tb of fast RAID 0 storage. As far as I know - if anyone knows different please correct me!

It depends on what you're using the drive for really. Might be better off using additional cheap USB storage for backup.

It's unfortunate the LaCie doesn't do RAID 5 - but that's why it's cheaper than Drobo and Pegasus boxes.

It'll be faster if you use all the disks in RAID 0 - but that has no redundancy.

I use a thunderbolt 2Big in RAID 0 and it's an excellent drive.

Last edited by iamgalactic; Aug 1, 2013 at 08:51 AM.
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Old Aug 1, 2013, 09:49 AM   #10
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Get the La cie 4big, it does raid 5 and has USB3.
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Old Aug 1, 2013, 12:07 PM   #11
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Get the La cie 4big, it does raid 5 and has USB3.
the interface speed on the 4big is much slower than the 5big

the 4big will do up to 245MBs - the 5big goes up to 785MBs
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Old Aug 1, 2013, 01:05 PM   #12
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To be safe...

There's one thing to keep in mind: A RAID is not a backup. Of course, it can be used as one. However, if you consolidate everything you have on this new device and it fails, you'll have no backup.

Now, the reality is that devices like the ones from Synology, ReadyNAS, Qnap, and the like don't have failures often other than drive failures. But, if the system has a hiccup you could lose everything on the device.

So, my recommendation: Whatever device you get to store your multiple terabytes of data, make sure that you back it up regularly. Good luck.
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Old Aug 1, 2013, 01:25 PM   #13
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Well people.....

you dont dissapoint me....Thanks all for the input and suggestions. Maybe I have to post some background to this dilemma:

The 5big unit I was considering is sold as a "deal" from a company I know. That deal maybe I can work out still to lower more the 5big unit.Sounds interesting to me jump in that deal, consolidate my stuff in all one place and trimm out old files (I keep bits from computer data/info from 1990 still, seriously.........).

$1300 I can work out to put them. Synology and RED WD HDDs put me in the $1500-$1700 range...

Or maybe I have to go the "El Cheapo" route, making 4-5 individual and trimmed volumes for RED HDDs? I was aware of these discs, but now I am become more interested. So maybe I can buy them and store the info in this way? That solution put me in the $900-$1100 range. But not so convenient and maybe need a better disk cataloging app that I currently uses....

So please, hit me with your bullets, pals....(bullets of opinions,ideas, no real ones...)


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Old Aug 1, 2013, 01:36 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by iamgalactic View Post
This is only true if you have the LaCie set up in RAID 0.

The same thing would happen with a Drobo or any other array setup as RAID 0!
Get your facts straight:

RAID 0 is less reliable than a single drive because if you lose any single drive in the array because of mechanical failure, you lose all of the data. The only way to store 10TB of data on the 10TB Big5 is to put it in RAID 0 mode. I would not recommend this *at all*.

Drobo is not a RAID 0 setup (in fact it's not really a RAID at all, though it is similar to RAID 5). All of the data on a Drobo is stored in such a way that if a single drive fails, the Drobo can rebuild the data when you replace the drive.

Last edited by NorCalLights; Aug 1, 2013 at 04:01 PM.
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Old Aug 1, 2013, 03:40 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by NorCalLights View Post
Get your facts straight:

RAID 0 is less reliable than a single drive because if you lose any single drive in the array because of mechanical failure, you all of the data. The only way to store 10TB of data on the 10TB Big5 is to put it in RAID 0 mode. I would not recommend this *at all*.

Drobo is not a RAID 0 setup (in fact it's not really a RAID at all, though it is similar to RAID 5). All of the data on a Drobo is stored in such a way that if a single drive fails, the Drobo can rebuild the data when you replace the drive.
I didn't say that the Drobo was a RAID 0.

Anyway, I see your point regarding the LaCie.

I was suggesting that it could be setup to offer some redundancy - but that it would sacrifice capacity. Hence my suggestion of using the 20tb version instead.

The Drobo beyondRAID solution does sound quite interesting - I like the idea of it being scalable.

Personally, a thunderbolt array is about speed - I'd still rather have my array in RAID 0 which is going to be faster than the Drobo and have another backup solution.
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Old Aug 1, 2013, 04:01 PM   #16
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It sounds like you need to consider something more than a "consumer-grade" storage solution. The Drobo's are well-regarded, as are the RAID storage devices from OWC. I'm sure exactly what you need is out there somewhere!
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Old Aug 1, 2013, 04:36 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixsan View Post
I keep bits from computer data/info from 1990 still, seriously.........).
i've got load of really old stuff too - but i keep it on old externals that i hardly ever use rather than have it clutter up my current storage.

perhaps you could think about something like that? and i guess it's worth be completely ruthless with things that are that old....
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Old Aug 1, 2013, 08:56 PM   #18
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Synology!

I second Synology, I have had the 1010+ for more than 2 years now and it only gets better with time, firmware updates have been amazing. It even has airprint now. I love my Synology!

LaCie ships with desktop drives like a lot of "RAID" solutions

Quote:
Originally Posted by velocityg4 View Post
Be sure to get NAS or Enterprise rated hard drives. In the event of a drive failure your array can be brought down by an error during the rebuild if you use desktop class hard drives. The only real difference between the two is how they deal with errors.

They are a more expensive but worth it. The best priced ones I know of are the Western Digital Red Drives.

I personally like Synology for the NAS. You can get the DS1513+ or DS1512+ the differences between the two I can find is the DS1513+ is considerably faster, can hold slightly more RAM and has four instead of two gigabit Ethernet ports. You can also expand them with 5bay addons the DX513 or 2bay DX213 (DS1513+ only) their is a two expansion module limit.

If you want a little more room to grow and don't want to add expansion modules you can get the 8-bay DS1812+ or DS1813+. These can also use the same modules. Besides being 8bay they should be pretty much the same as the corresponding 5-bay units.
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Old Aug 1, 2013, 10:24 PM   #19
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LaCie's come with a custom power adaptor, so if it goes faulty you are without your data till you can get a new one shipped from them. Other manufacturers have a built in power supply, just something to think about.

You're better of going for something that supports a standard RAID rather than Drobo, whose RAID equivalent can become problematic.

And as others have said, don't use RAID0, at worst use RAID 5. If you can, use RAID 5+S. The more redundancy you have the more space you lose, so depends how much data you have, and how important it is.
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Old Aug 2, 2013, 04:41 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by musique View Post
There's one thing to keep in mind: A RAID is not a backup. Of course, it can be used as one. However, if you consolidate everything you have on this new device and it fails, you'll have no backup.
And "failure" can also mean, destroyed in fire or stolen! You aren't safe without at least a backup (and preferably two or more, and kept at a different location).

The only thing RAID (non-0) buys you is zero downtime from a single drive failure.
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Old Aug 3, 2013, 12:04 AM   #21
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You're better of going for something that supports a standard RAID rather than Drobo, whose RAID equivalent can become problematic.
I'm not sure where that rumor got started, but I've had much more trouble with "standard" RAIDs than I ever have had with my Drobo.
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Old Aug 3, 2013, 12:27 PM   #22
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Well....

either I look/search/find a nice deal for the DS1513+ or I settle for the DS1512+ . The later put me in the sub $1300-1300 budget, even with WD RED HDDs....

Sounds as these are my options. Or "El Cheapo" way.....



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Old Aug 3, 2013, 12:48 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixsan View Post
either I look/search/find a nice deal for the DS1513+ or I settle for the DS1512+ . The later put me in the sub $1300-1300 budget, even with WD RED HDDs....

Sounds as these are my options. Or "El Cheapo" way.....



both will serve you well.
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Old Aug 3, 2013, 04:21 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixsan View Post
I have a mounting quantity of files....and drives.......In the range of 12-15 TB. I can trimm out that to 10-12 TB with some work. Well, the thing is this: I come across one LaCie 5 big unit (10 TB), Thunderbolt. Wondering if it is worth to try consolidate my files and do the trimming....
I ended up gutting my existing hard drives and using those to fill 3 NAS devices I bought. Check what you have now, and maybe you can reuse those drives?
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Old Aug 3, 2013, 07:25 PM   #25
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That is....

Quote:
Originally Posted by svendobbelaere View Post
I ended up gutting my existing hard drives and using those to fill 3 NAS devices I bought. Check what you have now, and maybe you can reuse those drives?
....sensible advice, given the budget constraints. Based in real experience, I like and thank you for it....

Maybe have 5 1 TB drives, bought right when first HDDs this capacity come out. A FireWire 1 TB, 6 WD 250 GB externals (USB 2.2) and a lot of old internals (IDE), less than 250 GB.

Really I was hoping to consolidate this stuff and discard all the IDE drives (discard from use, I mean). So no recycling for me, I guess......


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