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Job Termination

N

n8236

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Mar 1, 2006
1,065
32
Last Monday. I gave my boss my two week's notice. Today, he calls and tells me they had to terminate me immediately due to a clause that states immediate termination is necessary if I will be working for a competitor.

Idk if that'a true, but i intended to finish off the week by burning my PTO (Paid Time Off) days since they can't be cashed out and it's free $ to use. Now, I won't have that opportunity due to my termination.

I haven't looked at my contract if the clause is there, but I may have screwed myself by letting my boss know I would be working for a competitor. Also, unemployment insurance for the few days prolly won't work out because technically you can argue I am leaving voluntarily and also being terminated due to clause.

Either way, i just think that clause is a bunch of bull (real or not). The person is leaving the company anyways, why make it so dramatic. I also find no value in the idea of immediate termination as opposed to 2 weeks lol.

Maybe I should be glad i got away with an extra week and a half. Haha. So, stupid. I leave cuz I find a new job and they state it as termination.
 
designs216

designs216

macrumors 65816
Oct 26, 2009
1,046
21
Down the rabbit hole
It's not professional, it's just pettiness. The boss hears you're leaving so the vindictive two year old in him instantly wants to claim he fired you first. Take the lesson and don't look back -- next time don't give them too much info about where you're going next as it could be held against you. At any rate, you don't really need their reference as you've already landed the next gig. Congrats.
 
thekev

thekev

macrumors 604
Aug 5, 2010
7,005
3,343
Ugh. Never give them more information than necessary, as some employers are petty.
 
HitchHykr

HitchHykr

macrumors 6502a
Jun 13, 2007
542
1
Virginia
It is tricky when it comes to using your PTO/vacation when quitting, usually companies won't let you spend your last days in PTO. For example, you give two weeks notice and you have two weeks of PTO that you want to take, the boss may let you go right then and there, why should they pay you to stay home those last two weeks when you are not coming back? Lame but it's the way it is.

When I left my last company I used a few days of PTO but had scheduled myself to work my very last day, I still lost more than a weeks worth of PTO though. It help that they needed my help to transition my work to another guy :)
 
GoCubsGo

GoCubsGo

macrumors Nehalem
Feb 19, 2005
35,741
153
Agreed, the PTO thing is tricky. People who have left my company have done so by using some unused PTO the last week and there were no real issues. Some gave two weeks but only worked one and others gave three weeks and worked two.

I would not have told the boss where I was going. Sounds like you didn't have a noncompete, which is nice, but if you believe this clause is BS then ask HR. I hope you worked some place where there was an HR department. If not, I suppose I would ask the boss to show me. He probably didn't think that you would, and you did not.

Since this is in the past, you simply count your blessing that you have a job lined up and just relax for a few more days. Unemployment won't pay the first week you're out anyway so it's a complete waste of everybody's time.
 
talmy

talmy

macrumors 601
Oct 26, 2009
4,726
332
Oregon
The only two times I've left a company (once to join a startup and the second as the result of layoffs) my unused PTO was cashed out. I know the current company I work at also cashes out unused PTO. Maybe it depends on state law?

In any case, don't give out information they don't need to know.
 
Mousse

Mousse

macrumors 68040
Apr 7, 2008
3,493
6,717
Flea Bottom, King's Landing
designs216 said:
It's not professional, it's just pettiness. The boss hears you're leaving so the vindictive two year old in him instantly wants to claim he fired you first.
Click to expand...

How is it not professional if it is in his contract? His boss had no choice but to fire him.

I once worked for a company where it was policy to terminate employees who sought employment with a competitor. It did not matter if you landed a job or not; just asking was grounds for termination. Who ever came up with that policy as a jerk wad, but policy is policy. You accepted it as a term of employment.
 
N

n8236

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Mar 1, 2006
1,065
32
I've jumped a few jobs in the past, but never ran into this situation before. Life lesson learned. I thought it was quite petty of my company, as well.

I don't believe my boss actually knew of this competition clause because had he known it, he would have had HR terminate me a week earlier. He told me he fought HR and his boss's boss on letting me stick around until the end, but no dice.

Even had I not told my boss of my new employer, isn't it quite common for new employers to call your current one and ask about you, thus giving away your new job and resulting in a possible early termination?
 
HitchHykr

HitchHykr

macrumors 6502a
Jun 13, 2007
542
1
Virginia
n8236 said:
I've jumped a few jobs in the past, but never ran into this situation before. Life lesson learned. I thought it was quite petty of my company, as well.

I don't believe my boss actually knew of this competition clause because had he known it, he would have had HR terminate me a week earlier. He told me he fought HR and his boss's boss on letting me stick around until the end, but no dice.

Even had I not told my boss of my new employer, isn't it quite common for new employers to call your current one and ask about you, thus giving away your new job and resulting in a possible early termination?
Click to expand...

I've never had a new prospective employer call my current employer. Any references that I give would only include people that would know that I'm looking for other jobs.
 
bradl

bradl

macrumors 603
Jun 16, 2008
5,923
17,399
One thing you may want to do some research on, and quickly at that, is if your state has laws against non-compete clauses. If so, that could nullify the contract you signed that stipulated immediate termination.

but since you also accepted another position, you might not be eligible for unemployment insurance as they could count your PTO as Paid time in lieu of monetary compensation. Again, that's a sticky subject for your state's unemployment division to get into.

But at the least, check for the non-compete clause law in your state. At the best chance, what you'll get back is your last 2 week's pay and possibly PTO, but that's it.

BL.
 
M

malman89

macrumors 68000
May 29, 2011
1,651
6
Michigan
talmy said:
The only two times I've left a company (once to join a startup and the second as the result of layoffs) my unused PTO was cashed out. I know the current company I work at also cashes out unused PTO. Maybe it depends on state law?

In any case, don't give out information they don't need to know.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure it juts depends on the kindness of your employer.

My first salaried gig outside of college paid out unused PTO when I left. It was basically an extra check since I didn't need to take PTO off - we had enough paid holidays and flexible hours as is.

My second job only paid out PTO if you were employed for a year. Since I was technically a contract employee for the first 6 months, I was still under a year of direct employment when I left. Oh well.

My current job does not pay out PTO as far as I am aware, but they encourage you to use it. I have no hesitation at all asking for time off and my supervisor is more than willing to grant any request.
 
designs216

designs216

macrumors 65816
Oct 26, 2009
1,046
21
Down the rabbit hole
Mousse said:
How is it not professional if it is in his contract? His boss had no choice but to fire him.

I once worked for a company where it was policy to terminate employees who sought employment with a competitor. It did not matter if you landed a job or not; just asking was grounds for termination. Who ever came up with that policy as a jerk wad, but policy is policy. You accepted it as a term of employment.
Click to expand...

I get what you're saying about personal responsibility. However, it is low and vindictive to tell an employee who has resigned that they're fired. The employer doesn't owe me a job and I don't owe them loyalty. If I'm a top performer and serve customers well, he should make me want to stay. During the whole tenure he holds nearly all the power save for this one area. Contracts like these seek to give the employer further power to control even this.
 
bradl

bradl

macrumors 603
Jun 16, 2008
5,923
17,399
designs216 said:
I get what you're saying about personal responsibility. However, it is low and vindictive to tell an employee who has resigned that they're fired. The employer doesn't owe me a job and I don't owe them loyalty. If I'm a top performer and serve customers well, he should make me want to stay. During the whole tenure he holds nearly all the power save for this one area. Contracts like these seek to give the employer further power to control even this.
Click to expand...

That leads to another point: If the OP's state is a right-to-work state, the non-compete in his contract violates that right-to-work clause in that state's laws. There may be some legal backing on this, but again, the time to act on the research, let alone taking action is now.

BL.
 
M

malman89

macrumors 68000
May 29, 2011
1,651
6
Michigan
bradl said:
That leads to another point: If the OP's state is a right-to-work state, the non-compete in his contract violates that right-to-work clause in that state's laws. There may be some legal backing on this, but again, the time to act on the research, let alone taking action is now.

BL.
Click to expand...

That's incorrect. Just Google "right to work and non compete" and you'll see plenty of results to the contrary, even in the great state of Texas. As long as the agreement is balanced between the employer's interest and is not too restrictive for the employee seeking alternative employment, non compete clauses can be upheld in right to work states.

Almost every state (less than a handful don't) allow non compete clauses, while only half or so of the states are right to work.
 
Apple fanboy

Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
55,245
52,989
Behind the Lens, UK
Contact your new employer and explain that you don't have to work your notice period and they may let you start a little earlier.
Then at your new company get your revenge by making your new employer more successful than your old one.
 
Y

yg17

macrumors Pentium
Aug 1, 2004
15,027
3,002
St. Louis, MO
talmy said:
The only two times I've left a company (once to join a startup and the second as the result of layoffs) my unused PTO was cashed out. I know the current company I work at also cashes out unused PTO. Maybe it depends on state law?

In any case, don't give out information they don't need to know.
Click to expand...

I think it depends on the company.

My employer gives us a certain number of paid days off, and a certain number of vacation days. PDOs and vacay are the same in every way, we get paid the same, we can take them in half day increments, it's use it or lose it by the end of the year. The one difference is we get vacation paid out to us if we leave, but not PDOs. So the end result is everyone uses their PDOs first before using vacation.
 
Tomorrow

Tomorrow

macrumors 604
Mar 2, 2008
7,160
1,364
Always a day away
n8236 said:
Also, unemployment insurance for the few days prolly won't work out because technically you can argue I am leaving voluntarily and also being terminated due to clause.
Click to expand...

Not sure about where you live, but here in Texas you have to be unemployed for 3 weeks before you can collect benefits.

I also find no value in the idea of immediate termination as opposed to 2 weeks lol.
Click to expand...

There are people in the world who would give notice and then screw over their employer in the remaining two weeks lol.

The company is protecting itself here. Not saying you would do anything, but it's happened before that people would steal or corrupt company data on their way out. So the company takes steps to make sure that doesn't happen. It's common, it's reasonable, and it's nothing personal.
 
hallux

hallux

macrumors 68040
Apr 25, 2012
3,437
1,005
Some states (I thought my state, NY, was one) require the employee be paid through their resignation effective date even if the employer chooses to release them prior to that date. This is called "resignation notice pay", check the DOL site for your state.

NY labor laws DO leave it up to the company policy as to payment of unused "fringe benefits" or paid days off. My company will cut a check for that time, probably to have a single policy country-wide.
 
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