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Old Aug 10, 2013, 09:06 PM   #1
rasmasyean
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Is Skyrim possible without quest markers and fast travel?

Sometimes I think quest markers spoil it. Like there's an arrow over an object that looks like you're actually supposed to search for it. It makes many "quests" kind like just task list checkoffs.

Also, after you get to the location, the only real reason to wilderness travel is to collect mats for crafting.

I want to try without using markers and teleports.
But then again, I'm not sure I find the dialog "good enough" to tell you where exactly to go and what you need to do. Or maybe it is, but I should use a vioce recorder and replay it? Cuz it seems sometimes the dialog becomes shorter after you clicked once. Is it actually possible to play this game this way?
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Old Aug 11, 2013, 12:43 AM   #2
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I don't think it is. I recall some quests with a description like "go to a place somewhere north of here", and after a while there are so many areas open than you cannot possibly know which place/cave/dungeon/castle you are supposed to go.

However, the way these POVs are revealed, made me exploring the whole areas anyway, so quest markers didn't take away from me that part. You see, in Skyrim, the actual quests are not really important to the game experience. It's the whole atmosphere, the cave that you accidentally discover while heading for a quest, that you got to go and check what it is. Many times I found myself heading for a quest, and 3 hours later I was still wandering around, visiting new places while the quest was still uncompleted. It encourages exploration in every part of it, and to be honest that's the whole game in my opinion, so the quest markers do not get in the way.
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Old Aug 11, 2013, 01:08 AM   #3
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Not really.

No quest markers and fast travel make Oblivion/Skyrim pretty much impossible. The maps are simply to large and detailed.
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Old Aug 11, 2013, 01:28 AM   #4
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Yeah, I thought there might be something like for "It could be in a tomb", and the REAL way to find it is instead of looking at the map there are some NPC's arround which either you can ask, or they talk about it and tell you where it is...presuming you remember the reference.

I do remember this quest where you had to find a girl that this bum was looking for. Someone said she went to the island to collect herbs or some crap. But I looked all over the island cuz it was small. Then I finally used clairvoyance (which to me is a "hint button") and STILL didn't find her. Then when I enabled the quest marker, she was under the water. I mean, unless I missed the part where someone said she was a bad swimmer...that would have been nearly impossible to figrure out.
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Old Aug 11, 2013, 01:38 AM   #5
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I don't think it is. I recall some quests with a description like "go to a place somewhere north of here", and after a while there are so many areas open than you cannot possibly know which place/cave/dungeon/castle you are supposed to go.

However, the way these POVs are revealed, made me exploring the whole areas anyway, so quest markers didn't take away from me that part. You see, in Skyrim, the actual quests are not really important to the game experience. It's the whole atmosphere, the cave that you accidentally discover while heading for a quest, that you got to go and check what it is. Many times I found myself heading for a quest, and 3 hours later I was still wandering around, visiting new places while the quest was still uncompleted. It encourages exploration in every part of it, and to be honest that's the whole game in my opinion, so the quest markers do not get in the way.
POIs? I guess I'll have to agree with you there. The landscape and mob design just make you nosey. lol A few quests I actually gave up on cuz it took too long to get there cuz I kept dying running into hard mobs. It seems in Legendary mode lots of stuff one shot you pretty easily if you play mage route. The thing is, there doesn't seem to be a way to know where is "too hard". Or do you have to read those beastiary books and whatever to get an idea of what not to approach if you're still a wimp?
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Old Aug 11, 2013, 02:08 AM   #6
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It seems in Legendary mode lots of stuff one shot you pretty easily if you play mage route.
From my experience, I mostly get one shotted by mages in the late game when playing a pure warrior.

As a mage, you have a chance to fear/calm/turn/rage them before the enemies even do anything. Perks like Impact turn even the hardest fights into a walk in a summer breeze.

The trick is to take advantage of all magic at your disposal and be prepared to improvise.
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Old Aug 11, 2013, 02:30 AM   #7
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Have you tried modding?

If you play on pc you could try these mods.

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/11135//?

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/3222//?

You also need skse if you want to run Immersive Hud mod.

http://www.skyrimgems.com/ is a good place to find mods that make the game more "realistic".
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Old Aug 11, 2013, 03:57 AM   #8
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POIs? I guess I'll have to agree with you there. The landscape and mob design just make you nosey. lol A few quests I actually gave up on cuz it took too long to get there cuz I kept dying running into hard mobs. It seems in Legendary mode lots of stuff one shot you pretty easily if you play mage route. The thing is, there doesn't seem to be a way to know where is "too hard". Or do you have to read those beastiary books and whatever to get an idea of what not to approach if you're still a wimp?
Well, never bothered to write down which monster I can kill and what not actually. Surprises are a big part of the fun in Skyrim, anyway. The most difficult monsters, as a starting warrior, seemed to be the giants - that is until I got myself a decent armor.

Mages became predictable after a while. Especially after getting the shout that allows to freeze monsters, they were super easy - it's all about getting close to them, then it's over.

The only situation I found myself dying occasionally (again, until I got some decent gear, then the warrior becomes a god) were some random parties of monsters, usually 3 or 4 with melee and mages mixed. These could be a problem during first levels.
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Old Aug 11, 2013, 05:37 AM   #9
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It is possible without both i think, but it would be time consuming, i have completed quests accidentally in my random wanderings through skyrim, when i just pick a direction and wander
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Old Aug 11, 2013, 05:53 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by rasmasyean View Post
Sometimes I think quest markers spoil it. Like there's an arrow over an object that looks like you're actually supposed to search for it. It makes many "quests" kind like just task list checkoffs.

Also, after you get to the location, the only real reason to wilderness travel is to collect mats for crafting.

I want to try without using markers and teleports.
But then again, I'm not sure I find the dialog "good enough" to tell you where exactly to go and what you need to do. Or maybe it is, but I should use a vioce recorder and replay it? Cuz it seems sometimes the dialog becomes shorter after you clicked once. Is it actually possible to play this game this way?
You will need to use quest locations because the game doesn't have enough dialogue and information for you to find your way around effectively otherwise. IMHO, it should- but it doesn't, and that really sucks.

Fast travel is another story entirely. I never used it even once on my first playthrough. Let me tell you, this adds a whole new level of depth to the game. Expect to spend around 20 hours just walking or running around- but you'll get to see the whole day/night cycles of the game and the different weather patterns a hell of a lot more, and this in turn makes the game feel more realistic.

I had a friend who managed to play through the entire game without seeing the Aurora Borealis once. He was surprised when I mentioned it, because with all the fast travel he did the game never had a chance to show it to him.

I happened to get lucky and saw it the first time I went up the 7000 steps. I think I just stood there for a good 5 minutes just staring into the sky because the artwork was so gorgeous. That combined with the music and ambient sounds made for one heck of an impression.

So yeah, you might as well use the quest locations because that's no different then someone handing you a drawn map with an X on it marking your destination. You don't need to use fast travel, so if you want to experience the game more realistically then don't use it.

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Old Aug 11, 2013, 06:38 AM   #11
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Not really.

No quest markers and fast travel make Oblivion/Skyrim pretty much impossible. The maps are simply to large and detailed.
That's Morrowind for you

Skyrim is pretty much holding your hand all the way thru the game.
There are the horse travel system you can use instead, which is much like the system in Morrowind. Map size is not an issues, skyrim map is not very big compared to older games.

I guess people that did game in the 90s and early 2000s are missing how you had to find out most on your own.

Skyrim quest log is unfortunately very vague, so it would be even harder than the old games in many cases.
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Old Aug 11, 2013, 08:56 AM   #12
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Well... if you install some mod to take out those pointers, and then just use the clairvoyance spell a lot, you could probably do it fine... that spell points you where to go anyways so you can always (well usually) find the right path.
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Old Aug 11, 2013, 01:42 PM   #13
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I would think that they would have included a preference to turn such references off or to make them general or specific depending on player preference. However, I want them. I'm not into the game enough to wander the world looking for the right dungeon.
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Old Aug 11, 2013, 06:41 PM   #14
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I would think that they would have included a preference to turn such references off or to make them general or specific depending on player preference. However, I want them. I'm not into the game enough to wander the world looking for the right dungeon.
I remember first playing WoW on release. They had glowies when you found quest items but for the most part you had to "reveal the map" by visiting it. Unfortunately, although they had quite a bit of (written) dialog they sometimes worte the opposite direction so we would spend loads ot time until we asked someone in guild chat who knew...or jsut gave up. lol And WoW even in the beginning was HUGE!
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Old Aug 11, 2013, 07:50 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by rasmasyean View Post
I remember first playing WoW on release. They had glowies when you found quest items but for the most part you had to "reveal the map" by visiting it. Unfortunately, although they had quite a bit of (written) dialog they sometimes worte the opposite direction so we would spend loads ot time until we asked someone in guild chat who knew...or jsut gave up. lol And WoW even in the beginning was HUGE!
The worst thing was when they moved a bunch of NPCs when the first expansion came out, but didn't update the quest text. I spent ages looking in the place the quest said to look, instead of the new area at the other end of the zone!
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Old Aug 12, 2013, 07:27 AM   #16
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That's Morrowind for you

Skyrim is pretty much holding your hand all the way thru the game.
There are the horse travel system you can use instead, which is much like the system in Morrowind. Map size is not an issues, skyrim map is not very big compared to older games.

I guess people that did game in the 90s and early 2000s are missing how you had to find out most on your own.

Skyrim quest log is unfortunately very vague, so it would be even harder than the old games in many cases.
I can definately see that. It has a "dumbed down" feeling for XBoxers and stuff. I think they made it for that market...to get the masses to buy it for more money. The interface is actually really annoying at times and I don't feel it's designed for PC at all. It's almost a cosole->PC port. lol

I actually played this older open world rpg, Divinity II: Ego Draconis in Onlive, and I think that game had some better features than Skyrim. But I would hand the visuals and immersion over to Skyrim however.
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Old Aug 12, 2013, 08:53 AM   #17
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I remember first playing WoW on release. They had glowies when you found quest items but for the most part you had to "reveal the map" by visiting it. Unfortunately, although they had quite a bit of (written) dialog they sometimes worte the opposite direction so we would spend loads ot time until we asked someone in guild chat who knew...or jsut gave up. lol And WoW even in the beginning was HUGE!
You know, I don't even remember that. Referencing WoW, I remember always having a quest marker on the map. Now that could of been because I used a map mod for so many years.

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The worst thing was when they moved a bunch of NPCs when the first expansion came out, but didn't update the quest text. I spent ages looking in the place the quest said to look, instead of the new area at the other end of the zone!
I always thought I'd prefer the act of searching the map, but once I got into the game, I realized I'd frequently be in situations where I have to fight to search, across the map, especially if high level mobs, that the act of searching was a lot of effort and time. Might as well search and fight towards a fairly specific area. But I imagine there are players out there who won't mind searching so I think that kind of preference should be included in any RPG and don't imagine it would be hard or complicated to implement.
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Old Aug 12, 2013, 07:26 PM   #18
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You know, I don't even remember that. Referencing WoW, I remember always having a quest marker on the map. Now that could of been because I used a map mod for so many years.



I always thought I'd prefer the act of searching the map, but once I got into the game, I realized I'd frequently be in situations where I have to fight to search, across the map, especially if high level mobs, that the act of searching was a lot of effort and time. Might as well search and fight towards a fairly specific area. But I imagine there are players out there who won't mind searching so I think that kind of preference should be included in any RPG and don't imagine it would be hard or complicated to implement.
ahah! Carebare detected! Never mind fighting mobs, we had to fight player groups....as well as the occasional rouge or two looking to steal a kill and run away. lol Yeah. ppl actually waited for you to pass buy back then. Someone even put himself killing my character in some pre youtube "WoW PVP video" that "went viral". lol

But yeah, it must be that you had a mod. Cuz although I think it might have existed on launch, it either wasn't refined or most ppl didn't know about it. I think it's only when I had to do "organized play", that the GM's "required" it. Cuz then some leader had and idea of how to play, instead of everyone bum rushing the mobs with a random mix of classes and pay lots of repair bills.
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Old Aug 12, 2013, 08:19 PM   #19
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ahah! Carebare detected! Never mind fighting mobs, we had to fight player groups....as well as the occasional rouge or two looking to steal a kill and run away. lol Yeah. ppl actually waited for you to pass buy back then. Someone even put himself killing my character in some pre youtube "WoW PVP video" that "went viral". lol

But yeah, it must be that you had a mod. Cuz although I think it might have existed on launch, it either wasn't refined or most ppl didn't know about it. I think it's only when I had to do "organized play", that the GM's "required" it. Cuz then some leader had and idea of how to play, instead of everyone bum rushing the mobs with a random mix of classes and pay lots of repair bills.
Referencing WoW, I beta'd on PVP, got some perspective and played retail on PVE. I hated AHs messing up my questing.
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Old Aug 13, 2013, 03:48 PM   #20
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I understand the feeling- sometimes you do feel too "Led by the hand" with the markers.

That said some of the descriptions/quest items are badly described and the markers can be a blessing of what you should be looking at next.

The sad part is when you're doing your shopping and you mentally add that little arrow to the shelves for things on your shopping list.

I do love Skyrim but I do need to go outside more
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Old Aug 13, 2013, 04:21 PM   #21
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have to say I needed them towards the end. I was getting bored and just wanted to 'get on with it' so the markers were welcome.

guess it depends how engrossed you want to be in the game environment but ultimately for many I would imagine life gets in the way when thinking about spending the extra time searching / walking / talking in contrast to the bread and butter killing
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Old Aug 13, 2013, 11:18 PM   #22
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I understand the feeling- sometimes you do feel too "Led by the hand" with the markers.

That said some of the descriptions/quest items are badly described and the markers can be a blessing of what you should be looking at next.

The sad part is when you're doing your shopping and you mentally add that little arrow to the shelves for things on your shopping list.

I do love Skyrim but I do need to go outside more
Yeah, I was once actually walking outside the other day... so I was passing by all these flowers and stuff and for some strange reason wanted to pick all of them. lol

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottishCaptain View Post
You will need to use quest locations because the game doesn't have enough dialogue and information for you to find your way around effectively otherwise. IMHO, it should- but it doesn't, and that really sucks.

Fast travel is another story entirely. I never used it even once on my first playthrough. Let me tell you, this adds a whole new level of depth to the game. Expect to spend around 20 hours just walking or running around- but you'll get to see the whole day/night cycles of the game and the different weather patterns a hell of a lot more, and this in turn makes the game feel more realistic.

I had a friend who managed to play through the entire game without seeing the Aurora Borealis once. He was surprised when I mentioned it, because with all the fast travel he did the game never had a chance to show it to him.

I happened to get lucky and saw it the first time I went up the 7000 steps. I think I just stood there for a good 5 minutes just staring into the sky because the artwork was so gorgeous. That combined with the music and ambient sounds made for one heck of an impression.

So yeah, you might as well use the quest locations because that's no different then someone handing you a drawn map with an X on it marking your destination. You don't need to use fast travel, so if you want to experience the game more realistically then don't use it.

-SC
Yeasterday, I was just wilderness travelling collecting some herbs an such and came across a giant and dragon fighting! That was really cool! I actually watched the whole thing play out! Amazingy the giant won! Short lived victory as I finished him off in weakened state.
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Old Aug 15, 2013, 04:15 AM   #23
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Remember WoW back in the day? You had to read the quest text to figure out where to go, and sometimes it was nearly impossible to find the quest item you needed. Later they added shimmering to highlight the items, and I think it was at the end of Wrath that they included their own version of questhelper addon. Nowadays I don't read quest texts anymore...
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Old Aug 15, 2013, 04:42 AM   #24
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Heh I remember waiting for the brotherhood traitor in Westfall, back in the early days of WoW. No quest markers, just stand where the rest of the crowd does, waiting for him. But if you wanted to meet him at the beginning of his route to avoid other campers, you just had to explore.
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Old Aug 15, 2013, 09:14 AM   #25
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I understand the feeling- sometimes you do feel too "Led by the hand" with the markers.

That said some of the descriptions/quest items are badly described and the markers can be a blessing of what you should be looking at next.

The sad part is when you're doing your shopping and you mentally add that little arrow to the shelves for things on your shopping list.

I do love Skyrim but I do need to go outside more
Go have a beer and find entertainment at the Iverstead Pub and then hoof it up to High Hrothgar to visit the Grey Beards without fast travel.

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