Hedge Funder Lee Cooperman Takes 'Modest Position' in Apple, Drives Stock Price Over $500

Stuff like this just goes to show how easily (well, easy if you've got billions of dollars to spend) the stock market can be manipulated.

Apple stock ≠ Apple's performance.

And yet when I bought 20 shares a couple of years ago, no one called me to speculate on the future. I'm very disappointed.

funny how big investors and the sentiment of "undervalue" can make the stock price up. not how the company is performing, how many billion dollars made, etc. stock market is still a mystery to me.

I'm so glad we're back to the days where one or two investors can manipulate a stock by manipulating other investors. Whether they are right or wrong in their predictions, they will come out as winners.

This all sounds dirty. These guys know little (and probably care even less) about technology and Apple.

This is why, ladies and gentlemen, the stock market is a craphole and unrelated marker of performance for anything.

Anyone with the right amount of money or right push can influence heavily. A dying company can be made worth billions (not saying apple is dying, just illustrating a point)

Reading replies on financial stories on this site is so disheartening.

Tankmaze said:

funny how big investors and the sentiment of "undervalue" can make the stock price up. not how the company is performing, how many billion dollars made, etc. stock market is still a mystery to me.

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The company has been performing well all the time, and is still massively undervalued.

Stock Price will be near 700 bones or above come the holiday season...

Panic to Elation

The stock market moves in a state of hysteria....if this important guy likes it...buy, buy, buy.....then a few days later....this important guy does not like it.....sell, sell, sell.
Tesla is a perfect example of that...going up like crazy then some "analyist"
says sell and the market panics....SELL SELL SELL...this just happened again this week and the stock is taking big hits yesterday and a bigger one today.
If tommorrow another Analyisist says buy...THEN ITS BUY BUY BUY...HYSTERIA.

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FrizzleFryBen said:

I'm so glad we're back to the days where one or two investors can manipulate a stock by manipulating other investors. Whether they are right or wrong in their predictions, they will come out as winners.

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excellent point that needs to be made but you will never hear this on FoxBusiness or CNBC Financial network

Correction to story: Icahn said he believes the current stock value is $625 without earnings growth, considering only the buybacks, not the previous high of $705. If you believe Ichan's scenario (clearly, he does), then a share value over $700 would be based on earnings growth.

I would say, let the uninformed claptrap commentary begin, but I see I am already too late.

keysofanxiety said:

Stuff like this just goes to show how easily (well, easy if you've got billions of dollars to spend) the stock market can be manipulated.

Apple stock ≠ Apple's performance.

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Much of the stock market game is fixed. People bet against the stock going up known as selling short...that is what happened to apple when it got in the 700's then the "analysts " said it was over valued...AFTER THEY HAD SOLD AT THE HIGH PRICE...then the stock takes a nose dive and they buy it back at a much lower price.

how is this

how is this not stock manipulation?

jav6454 said:

This is why, ladies and gentlemen, the stock market is a craphole and unrelated marker of performance for anything.

Anyone with the right amount of money or right push can influence heavily. A dying company can be made worth billions (not saying apple is dying, just illustrating a point)

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Speaking of uninformed claptrap.

On any given day at any given moment, the markets are not necessarily behaving rationally. But in the final analysis, the markets are all about earnings, and the growth thereof. So no, stock price is not "unrelated" to performance, it is very closely related. Apple posted three consecutive quarters of declining earnings and (lo and behold!) the stock price when down. What a conspiracy. Now optimism is building that Apple's earnings will begin to grow again, and oddly enough, the stock price is going up again. Double that conspiracy, because it can't be anything else.

Open up Apple TV to developers and I can see that. Maybe it's coming.

For what it's worth, Icahn said the stock was worth $625.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...es-for-bigger-investor-payout-from-apple.html

Badandy said:

Reading replies on financial stories on this site is so disheartening.

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The opinions of the unwashed masses must be so depressing

iLilana said:

how is this not stock manipulation?

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It's always manipulation when you don't know what you are talking about. Conspiracy theories are emotionally satisfying, and don't need to be supported by any facts, knowledge, or evidence.

iLilana said:

how is this not stock manipulation?

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Because they are publicly declaring their action. There is no evidence of deception. There would be manipulation if, say he did not take a position, but sold PUTs ahead of time, knowing his declaration would cause the stock to rise in the short term

iLilana said:

how is this not stock manipulation?

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An investor can publicize his stake in the company. Icahn is a highly regarded investor hence the move in the stock (people following his lead essentially).

What you can't do is talk up the stock and be selling it at the same time (called a pump and dump)...that's illegal.

FrizzleFryBen said:

I'm so glad we're back to the days where one or two investors can manipulate a stock by manipulating other investors. Whether they are right or wrong in their predictions, they will come out as winners.

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This isn't true. Bill Ackman came out with a billion dollar short position on Herbalife that he publicized with tons of research, a presentation, and accusations of it being a pyramid scheme. The market reacted and his position gained in value. Then some other HF titans (including Carl Icahn) disagreed with his position and came out very bullish on the stock. Ackman is currently massively in the red.

People listen to investors who have a reputation for handily beating the market and who put lots of their money on the line. Many of these positions are disclosed via 13F filings vs twitter/investor conferences. If you disagree with their conclusions feel free to take the opposite side of the trade. Not everything that is market moving is some conspiracy meant to stick it to the little guy. Carl Icahn's involvement in the Dell going-private transaction has netted common shareholders (you know, ordinary retail investors who hold the stock along with institutional investors) tens of millions of dollars by exposing what was, at the time, a deficient deal that the Board was ready to accept.

ValSalva said:

The opinions of the unwashed masses must be so depressing

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Actually, it is kind of depressing. People having no clue about investing is why so many end up at retirement age without enough resources to get by.

iLilana said:

how is this not stock manipulation?

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Well, if you read the whole story, you'd know that Cooperman did not come out and say he's taken a position, it was discovered through filings. When he was asked about it, he responded.

Or maybe it's just very clever stock manipulation

IJ Reilly said:

Speaking of uninformed claptrap.

On any given day at any given moment, the markets are not necessarily behaving rationally. But in the final analysis, the markets are all about earnings, and the growth thereof. So no, stock price is not "unrelated" to performance, it is very closely related. Apple posted through three consecutive quarters of declining earnings and (lo and behold!) the stock price when down. What a conspiracy. Now optimism is building that Apple's earnings will begin to grow again, and oddly enough, the stock price is going up again. Double that conspiracy, because it can't be anything else.

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I agree with nearly all you say...short of the "uninformed claptrap", sounds all old timey. And I assume you are twirling your moustache while saying so.

I believe the gent was speaking directly to your point about markets not necessarily behaving rationally in the short term. From my perspective, it seems that's what most of your so called "uninformed claptrap(s)" are getting at.