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Old Aug 23, 2013, 10:44 AM   #1
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Samsung Denied New Trial Over Apple's 'Bounce-Back' Patent




The ongoing legal battle between Apple and Samsung shows no sign of abating and last night, U.S. District Court Judge Lucy Koh issued a ruling that denied Samsung a new trial over the 'bounce-back' patent, reports CNET.

Apple originally accused more than 20 Samsung smartphones and tablets of infringing on its 'bounce-back' patent, which was filed back in December 2007. The patent, No. 7,469,381*entitled "List scrolling and document translation, scaling, and rotation on a touch-screen display", meant that users who had scrolled to the top or bottom of a screen or document would be shown "an area beyond the edge of the document", colloquially known as a 'bounce-back' or 'rubber band', which is integrated into the device's operating system.

The patent had faced potential invalidation upon reexamination by the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office, but the key claim of the patent used against Samsung was ultimately upheld.

Similar implementations of the feature were implemented on a number of non-Apple devices, with Apple targeting Samsung for infringement of the patent. The patent in question also covers other device actions, such as dragging documents around the screen.

Although Apple was preliminarily awarded around $1.05 billion in damages due to copyright infringement, this amount was reduced by almost half back in March when Samsung called for a new trial to set revised damage amounts, which will commence in November of this year. Samsung had also sought to delay that new trial, but as noted by FOSS Patents, Judge Koh also denied that motion yesterday.

Neither Apple nor Samsung have provided any comment on this decision.

Article Link: Samsung Denied New Trial Over Apple's 'Bounce-Back' Patent
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Old Aug 23, 2013, 10:55 AM   #2
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that's how you work. you stop this lawsuit junk and start innovating. wise decision by samsung, i hope apple learns something from this.
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Old Aug 23, 2013, 11:00 AM   #3
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There were several reports (right after the iPhone launched) that stated that the bounce-back effect is something very patentable.
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Old Aug 23, 2013, 11:19 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by bnnentertainmen View Post
that's how you work. you stop this lawsuit junk and start innovating. wise decision by samsung, i hope apple learns something from this.
Uh, Samsung didn't stop, the judge did.
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Old Aug 23, 2013, 11:38 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by madsci954 View Post
Uh, Samsung didn't stop, the judge did.
but shouldn't apple work towards stopping these lawsuits and making better products? couldn't find anything wrong in that guy's post.

Last edited by maflynn; Aug 24, 2013 at 04:56 AM. Reason: Removed deleted post from quote
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Old Aug 23, 2013, 11:42 AM   #6
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I've been to plenty of sports stadiums that have the opposing teams fans there. And I have no issue with that. Apparently you haven't been to a Yankees-Red Sox game....

In matter of fact having the opposing teams fans there help enhance the atmosphere of the stadium. Now that the Baltimore Orioles are good again, the O's fans that finally show up at Camden Yards always try to drown out or counteract the Yankee fans there. It's all in good fun.
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Last edited by maflynn; Aug 24, 2013 at 04:56 AM. Reason: Removed deleted post from quote
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Old Aug 23, 2013, 12:02 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Klosefabrinio View Post
but shouldn't apple work towards stopping these lawsuits and making better products? couldn't find anything wrong in that guy's post.
Unlike a core of a CPU, a company can work on more that one task at a time. And I doubt that what the lawyers are using their time for has any impact on Apple's innovation.
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Old Aug 23, 2013, 12:08 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Klosefabrinio View Post
but shouldn't apple work towards stopping these lawsuits and making better products? couldn't find anything wrong in that guy's post.
Oh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bnnentertainmen View Post
that's how you work. you stop this lawsuit junk and start innovating. wise decision by samsung, i hope apple learns something from this.
That is what I was commenting on, Samsung didn't bow out of this particular trial, the judge threw the case out. If all he said was "that's how you work. you stop this lawsuit junk and start innovating" I wouldn't have made any comment.
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Old Aug 23, 2013, 12:15 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by bnnentertainmen View Post
that's how you work. you stop this lawsuit junk and start innovating. wise decision by samsung, i hope apple learns something from this.
Nonsensical statement. Samsung didn't stop anything. They continue to fight the rulings that they violated the patent. This was a judge denying them another bite at the jury apple (no pun intended). She told them that they have to live with the consequences of the first trial.

It would be nice if Samsung would start innovating, though. It would break new ground for them.
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Old Aug 23, 2013, 12:34 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by bnnentertainmen View Post
that's how you work. you stop this lawsuit junk and start innovating. wise decision by samsung, i hope apple learns something from this.
The court disagrees with you.
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Old Aug 23, 2013, 01:09 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by bnnentertainmen View Post
that's how you work. you stop this lawsuit junk and start innovating. wise decision by samsung, i hope apple learns something from this.
The only thing Apple could learn from Samsung is how to double-dip on patent licensing fees on FRAND patents. Samsung is the worst offender out there. Samsung has been seeking bans all over the world for unimportant FRAND patents that constitute a minor portion of the GSM 3G standard. In Europe they got slapped with anti-trust charges for doing this and in the US, President Obama stepped in and vetoed an ITC ruling in order to set a precedent that FRAND patents cannot be used in this way.

You have to offer FRAND patents and fair and reasonable rates (like Apple does with its H.264 patents via MPEG-LA consortium). Asking somebody for over 2% of the selling price of the finished product as well as access to your entire patent portfolio in order to use FRAND patents that make up a portion of the IP on an $11 chip does not quite constitute "fair and reasonable".

Samsung's drunk. They need to go home.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klosefabrinio View Post
but shouldn't apple work towards stopping these lawsuits and making better products? couldn't find anything wrong in that guy's post.
You don't see anything wrong with his post?

1) Samsung did not stop litigating, they failed at litigation.

2) Samsung's example in patent litigation is hardly pristine considering they go for bans based on FRAND patents. They got anti-trust charges in Europe because of this and then dropped the lawsuit saying they'd rather compete in the marketplace than the courtroom (because they did not want the anti-trust charges)

So as far as I can tell, the only things Apple could "learn" from Samsung is how to lose in the courtroom and how to use abuse FRAND patents. I'd say that there is plenty wrong with his comment. He should have probably read the article and a few others first in order to make a more educated comment.
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Old Aug 23, 2013, 01:17 PM   #12
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Doesn't stop innovation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klosefabrinio View Post
but shouldn't apple work towards stopping these lawsuits and making better products? couldn't find anything wrong in that guy's post.
Apple has their own Legal department which is separate from engineering and design...they are trying to protect their past innovations and the only recourse they have is to go to court. If they didn't, Google/Samsung/Microsoft would eat them alive and steal their work. This isn't a new thing...Jobs went nuclear on Bill Gates when he stole pieces from the original Macintosh.

I do agree that things are getting out of control, but nothing will change until the whole "patent" culture is fixed.
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Old Aug 23, 2013, 03:01 PM   #13
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Nice.
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Old Aug 23, 2013, 04:06 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by bnnentertainmen View Post
that's how you work. you stop this lawsuit junk and start innovating. wise decision by samsung, i hope apple learns something from this.
Of course Samsung learned. Copy as much as you like, reap the benefits, drag out any court case as long as possible. Look at how many Android phones are sold by companies that copied Apple, and how many are sold by companies that didn't copy.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klosefabrinio View Post
but shouldn't apple work towards stopping these lawsuits and making better products? couldn't find anything wrong in that guy's post.
Apple certainly should and indeed does work at producing better products.

But why should they allow a competitor to steal their innovation? They do their best to teach Samsung that stealing isn't on, and if they succeeded (in teaching Samsung some moral values), that would stop future lawsuits.

Last edited by maflynn; Aug 24, 2013 at 04:54 AM. Reason: Removed deleted post from quote
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Old Aug 23, 2013, 04:50 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by bnnentertainmen View Post
that's how you work. you stop this lawsuit junk and start innovating. wise decision by samsung, i hope apple learns something from this.
And when will Samesong start "innovating"? Ah, there is nothing to copy right now? I'm sure they have engineers on standby waiting for next apple product announcement/leak.

Last edited by radiologyman; Aug 23, 2013 at 05:01 PM.
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Old Aug 23, 2013, 05:54 PM   #16
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Just pay the ****ing money, remove the functionality and move on Samsung (I mean Google... they are the ones who copied it.)

----------

Innovation for Fandroids:
- Make the screen twice the size (iPad-sized for a phone... why didn't Apple think about that.)
- Add an 8-core CPU and boast about how it's twice as fast as Apple's dual-core CPU, and sucks the battery down to < half a day of idle usage. (Maybe a reason why Apple opted for dual-core... performance/power consumption ratio... naaaah!)
- Double the battery size (as required to power the big screen + 8-core CPU.)
- Add brand-labelling/lagware to Google's copy of iOS and install it.

Apple's struggling to keep up with the innovation. I don't think they'll EVER be able to implement the above features. */SARCASM*

Last edited by dejo; Oct 16, 2013 at 02:26 PM. Reason: circumventing profanity filter / quoted post deleted.
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Old Aug 23, 2013, 06:45 PM   #17
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I thought that judge was called out as biased and the case was invalid?
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Old Aug 23, 2013, 06:58 PM   #18
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Samsung needs to stop being stupid and actually innovate something.
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Old Aug 23, 2013, 07:58 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by bnnentertainmen View Post
that's how you work. you stop this lawsuit junk and start innovating. wise decision by samsung, i hope apple learns something from this.
Do you know what denied a new trial even means?
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Old Aug 23, 2013, 09:08 PM   #20
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There is NO corellation between lawsuits and quality of product. The two things are totally separate. Different teams.
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Old Aug 23, 2013, 09:19 PM   #21
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Samsung has always copied stuff

one photo = to a 1000 words (but I'll add a few more here).

Samsung copied Sony and Panasonic for years, then moved on to copy Apple.
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Old Aug 24, 2013, 12:13 AM   #22
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Honestly Samsung cant innovate anything on their own.
All they know is how to copy.
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Old Aug 24, 2013, 04:02 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by jav6454 View Post
There were several reports (right after the iPhone launched) that stated that the bounce-back effect is something very patentable.
the kind of thing that several years later everything thinks is 'obvious' but at the time nobody else had thought of it. i guess that's how you lose patents..when something becomes too good for nobody else to have
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Old Aug 24, 2013, 05:07 AM   #24
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Glad to hear they got denied.
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Old Aug 24, 2013, 05:35 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Squilly View Post
I thought that judge was called out as biased and the case was invalid?
Are you maybe thinking about judge Denise Cote in that eBook case brought by the DoJ……

http://www.teleread.com/ebooks/revie...dency-to-bias/
http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2013/08/...-judge-cote-2/
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