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Old Aug 25, 2013, 08:46 PM   #1
jayeskreezy
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FCP X Dissapointing...or Am I Missing Something?

After using FCP X for nearly a month I've decided to downgrade back down to 7. It really feels like an upgrade going back to 7.

I'm not completely giving up on X, but there's some things that are more complicated than they need to be. I feel like it's more of an imovie Pro than FCP. Anyway, I realize I still have a lot to learn using FCP X so maybe yall can help me with a few questions.
  • Is there a faster way to do slow motion or speed increases other than the file menu and choosing Retime?
  • I hate the magnetic timeline for most things. Hitting P seems to be the only partial way around it. Is there any other real way around it?
  • Scratch Disks! I watched a tutorial on a long process to set your scratch disk on an external drive. I honestly was still confused after the fact and still saw remnants on my main hard drive. Is there a good tutorial available for this?
  • Track Based Editing: WHY is this so difficult? http://fcpx.tv/Pages/tracks.html

Now I know these are a lot of disappointments but I do love the ease of titling and effects. Export times are a lot faster than FCP 7 too. If anyone has effectively made the switch can you tell me how you adjusted?

Is there anyone who is using both 7 and X?

And yes, I realize I'm late, but it took me awhile to afford a new computer after I killed my other one.
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Old Aug 26, 2013, 02:24 AM   #2
coldsweat
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Is there a faster way to do slow motion or speed increases other than the file menu and choosing Retime?

Highlight the clip, hit 'cmd+r' - that will bring a coloured bar along the top, either use the drop down arrow on that bar to retime to one of the preset speeds or drag the handle on the right hand end of that bar (two vertical lines) to retime to any speed you want!

I hate the magnetic timeline for most things. Hitting P seems to be the only partial way around it. Is there any other real way around it?

Dependant on what you're editing, you don't necessarily need to put your clips in using the magnetic timeline. I usually create an empty Gap clip as the primary storyline & then just attach my clips to that using the 'Q' (Connect to Storyline) shortcut - works pretty much like an old Track based editor then (sort of) as you can move clips around the timeline freely, if you need to add a transition hit 'cmd'+g' to turn the clip into a mini storyline.

Unless your projects are as complex as the ones in the article you linked to, you'll get your head around it eventually - you just need to persevere, or just say screw it - I like my tracks & I'm getting Premiere!!!!
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Old Aug 26, 2013, 07:29 AM   #3
salacious
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having been a fcp head for years, fcpx was refreshing, it looked great, felt great, that is until..

your video went past 5 minutes..

numerous glitches with plug ins, constant crashing, stupid timeline rules, so i bit the bullet and forced myself to use premiere..

best editing programme i hav used to date, dyamic link is a god send trust me!
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Old Aug 26, 2013, 07:04 PM   #4
jayeskreezy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldsweat View Post
Is there a faster way to do slow motion or speed increases other than the file menu and choosing Retime?

Highlight the clip, hit 'cmd+r' - that will bring a coloured bar along the top, either use the drop down arrow on that bar to retime to one of the preset speeds or drag the handle on the right hand end of that bar (two vertical lines) to retime to any speed you want!

I hate the magnetic timeline for most things. Hitting P seems to be the only partial way around it. Is there any other real way around it?

Dependant on what you're editing, you don't necessarily need to put your clips in using the magnetic timeline. I usually create an empty Gap clip as the primary storyline & then just attach my clips to that using the 'Q' (Connect to Storyline) shortcut - works pretty much like an old Track based editor then (sort of) as you can move clips around the timeline freely, if you need to add a transition hit 'cmd'+g' to turn the clip into a mini storyline.

Unless your projects are as complex as the ones in the article you linked to, you'll get your head around it eventually - you just need to persevere, or just say screw it - I like my tracks & I'm getting Premiere!!!!

Thanks for these tips! I'll definitely be trying the gap clip thing ASAP.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by salacious View Post
having been a fcp head for years, fcpx was refreshing, it looked great, felt great, that is until..

your video went past 5 minutes..

numerous glitches with plug ins, constant crashing, stupid timeline rules, so i bit the bullet and forced myself to use premiere..

best editing programme i hav used to date, dyamic link is a god send trust me!
Hmm. I've never edited with Premiere, but I keep hearing good things about it. I also havent done a video past 5 minutes in FCP X so I'll try one to see if I get the same issues.

I love the plugins offered in FCP X, but it's the timeline and the way the overall aesthetics that make it hard to get to that point. For now I've been doing what some might call tedious and just laying out everything quickly and efficiently in FCP 7 and then just using 7toX to add the effects and finishing touches in FCPX. This feels somewhat counter productive, but not nearly as bad as using FCPX solo. I would like a better way soon though.
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Old Aug 26, 2013, 08:16 PM   #5
4God
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Originally Posted by jayeskreezy View Post
Thanks for these tips! I'll definitely be trying the gap clip thing ASAP.

----------


....For now I've been doing what some might call tedious and just laying out everything quickly and efficiently in FCP 7 and then just using 7toX to add the effects and finishing touches in FCPX. This feels somewhat counter productive, but not nearly as bad as using FCPX solo. I would like a better way soon though.
That's what I do using Adobe Premiere Pro CC, then use 7toX to go to FCPX for finishing.
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Old Aug 27, 2013, 03:09 PM   #6
mBox
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Tips from REDUSER/CreativeCow.

Update your CUDA drivers on the Mac.
Apparently anything older than 5.5.x caused beach balling for a lot of users.
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Old Aug 27, 2013, 07:36 PM   #7
martinX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayeskreezy View Post
Is there anyone who is using both 7 and X?
I use FCP 6 at work and X at home (previously had FCE at home). At work, I have a 2010 iMac, tape deck, mini DV cameras and a Panasonic monitor. At home I have a late 2012 iMac with all the trimmings and a 23" second monitor and I shoot primarily on AVCHD cameras.

I can't really change at work without upgrading the whole setup.

At home, I have been doing some old home videos in X that have been sitting around because FCE was such a PITA for editing AVCHD. I have also started shooting live productions with multiple cameras.

I love FCP X and can't wait to get it at work (in the next year or so...). I find it is super quick to shuttle around so much footage, easy to use and multi camera shoots are just so quick. I had been looking at a lot of the Ripple Training tutorials way before buying FCP X and had been hanging out on FCP.CO as well so I was primed to go. In addition, I bought Apple's One-on-One training when I bought my new iMac - best investment ever.

I wouldn't have bought X until they got multi-camera in it and until Andy had made his Region Blur plug-in for it (easiest way to put in a spot blur by far).

I have only just scratched the surface with X so I am the wrong person to ask how to use it.

One more thing: when work bought FC Studio for me, I got them to pay for training as well since I had no idea how to use it, having come from iMovie. Final Cut Studio cost ~A$1200. The training cost ~A$1500 for a 3 day course. The people that seem to be the most vocally critical of FCP X seem to be those who either have very specific workflows and can't just drop X in (which is why I haven't at work) or those who are relying on knowledge of how things used to be done. I'd say: stick with it, ask questions, poke around.

Finally finally, take a look at "The best FCPX multicam demo Iíve ever seen!". Here's the Youtube link.
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Old Aug 27, 2013, 07:54 PM   #8
jayeskreezy
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Haha. Thanks for the encouragement. I'll def stick with it and continue to try some things. I think like anything-the more I use it-the more I'll become comfortable with it.

And MartinX that blur tool looks amazing! This actually is one of the things I really enjoy about FCP X-the ability and availability for so many dope effects.

Last edited by jayeskreezy; Aug 27, 2013 at 08:17 PM.
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Old Aug 27, 2013, 08:40 PM   #9
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I dont think you could possibly complain about the availability of professional effects (plugins) for Premiere, especially since they are mostly universal plugins that can be used in both Premiere and After Effects. So I don't see the effects being a viable reason to put up with the whole relearning to edit thing when first moving to FCPX. Once I started using Premiere, there was no way I could ever go back to the FCP method of import and transcode before starting my work, not to mention the countless workarounds people have mentioned here to bring back track based functionality, which obviously has been a staple of the NLE workflow for quite some time.

I will say, the background rendering is great in FCPX and the interface is nice and shiny looking. But in terms of flexibility, aftermarket support, and staying relevant to the increasingly Adobe centered professional market, Premiere is tough to beat. Except in price.
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Old Aug 28, 2013, 04:03 AM   #10
25ghosts
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0) This is NOT meant as rude:

You have installed FCPx and you are trying to use it as FCP7 - and by doing that you are severely crippling yourself and the app !

FCPx is the most amazing NLE I have worked with ever since a decade !
I come form AVID and PPRO !

Take a weekend with the App and READ the manual and perhaps check out Lary Jordans FCPx tutorials. I promise you they are worth it as is the FPCx ;-)

1) Retime:

As someone else suggested: Hit Command + R - or
enter Shortcut Customisation in FCPx and

2) Magnetic Timeline

The Mag. Timeline takes a little getting used to. But only because we think the 'Old Way' - My advice to you: Quit working against/around it and start learning it... You will love it when you do. For me, going back to do occasional work in PPRO I MISS it and really do no at all enjoy the old track bases cutting...

That said, it took a week or so with cursing etc to re-learn the concept of the timeline and thus editing. But once understood... It is fantastic ;-)

3) Disks

FCPx is very smart in how it separates Events from Projects. Keep Events on a separate disk and projects on another separate disk. FCPx will thus READ from the Event Disk and WRITE (Render) to the project disk. THus it wont have to read and write to the same disk. Meaning that it won't have to write(Render) to the same disk it is reading from. This will double R/W Performance, depending on which disk you are using (Spinning or SSD)

I recommend using SSDs.

4) Track Based Editing

1) Just use connected clips or Secondary Storylines... In FCPx you could envision having unlimited tracks without having to create them....

Again, learn FPCx and cease using it as FCP7 for which is was NOT intended ;-)


Hope this helps !
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Old Aug 28, 2013, 10:14 AM   #11
forcesteeler
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FCP X is Garbage, Its Apple way of trying to make it more user friendly and they failed terribly. That why you have iMovie, FCP is for Professional. I Downgrade to Final Cut Pro 7, And I feel right at home.
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Old Aug 28, 2013, 04:34 PM   #12
martinX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 25ghosts View Post
2) Magnetic Timeline

The Mag. Timeline takes a little getting used to. But only because we think the 'Old Way' - My advice to you: Quit working against/around it and start learning it... You will love it when you do. For me, going back to do occasional work in PPRO I MISS it and really do no at all enjoy the old track bases cutting...
I came from an iMovie background to FCP6 and the one thing I missed was iMovie's magnetic timeline. Over and over I missed it until I (like all other FCP editors) became adept at selecting swathes of video and audio, up and down from left to right, moving it somewhere 'safe', moving other video in place and dropping the previously moved video to the new gap.

In one fell swoop, FCP X has eliminated all that mousing around and mental gymnastics. Have an established block of video and audio? Make a compound clip and fuggedaboutit. Need to shuffle clips around? Magnetic timeline stops RSI. Need to compare many similar clips and don't want to drop them onto separate tracks and do the enable/disable shuffle like in FCP? Auditions. Easy.
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Old Aug 28, 2013, 11:52 PM   #13
adamneer
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i still fail to see how single timeline based editing could be more efficient and/or flexible than track based editing when it comes to placing b-roll, multiple takes, or really any shots that you don't have nailed down in a storyboard process. would you not have to basically have every cut planned out ahead of time? also, if single track editing is so great, what's to stop someone using traditional track based NLEs from simply just using track 1 and foregoing the use of the additional available tracks? don't ripple, rolling and sliding edits, in conjunction with snapping allow pretty much all of the functionality of FCPX in other NLEs, whereas FCPX takes tons more effort to provide multiple track functionality?
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Old Aug 29, 2013, 03:42 AM   #14
25ghosts
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Originally Posted by adamneer View Post
i still fail to see how single timeline based editing could be more efficient and/or flexible than track based editing when it comes to placing b-roll, multiple takes, or really any shots that you don't have nailed down in a storyboard process. would you not have to basically have every cut planned out ahead of time? also, if single track editing is so great, what's to stop someone using traditional track based NLEs from simply just using track 1 and foregoing the use of the additional available tracks? don't ripple, rolling and sliding edits, in conjunction with snapping allow pretty much all of the functionality of FCPX in other NLEs, whereas FCPX takes tons more effort to provide multiple track functionality?
FCPx HAS (if you will) unlimited tracks. You can stack unlimited clips on top of another. Without having to create a whole track for such. A track is a merely a denominator for being able to layer something above/below something else... FCPx does this beautifully. Without having to create a track to do so !
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Old Aug 29, 2013, 04:51 PM   #15
martinX
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Originally Posted by adamneer View Post
multiple takes
Use auditions.

In FCP Classic, I am often shuffling things around vertically to avoid clip collisions. FCP X avoids that problem. Could it be better? I think if they added colour coding of video then it would add more visual information while I'm editing.

Don't think of FCP X as a bunch of parts. Think of using every part of FCP X as you go: from the meta data through to the trackless tracks. It all works together to make your footage accessible, findable, searchable and able to be manipulated.
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Old Aug 30, 2013, 12:23 AM   #16
ChrisA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamneer View Post
i still fail to see how single timeline based editing could be more efficient and/or flexible than track based editing when it comes to placing b-roll, multiple takes, or really any shots that....
I think you are right. But FCP X is not single track. It is single time line but can have lots of tracks.
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Old Aug 30, 2013, 03:31 PM   #17
adamneer
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i guess I'll have to take another look at some point. But honestly, theres the biggest problem with FCPX - I shouldn't have to relearn a program that I rely on to make a living. Not with all the other options available that are so much easier to transition to. This is the main reason I never learned AVID even though I know i should. Its such a steep initial learning curve that I'd much rather spend my time learning new programs that allow me to do things I can't already do, such as Cinema 4D or 3DStudio Max
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Old Aug 30, 2013, 04:33 PM   #18
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i guess I'll have to take another look at some point. But honestly, theres the biggest problem with FCPX - I shouldn't have to relearn a program that I rely on to make a living.
Change is the name of the game, might as well get used to it now. No company lasts forever and neither do workflows. The world is a much different place now than it was in 1983 and it will be a much different place in 2043 than it is today.

I know more than a few people that learned cutting on film, then had to transition over to linear editing, then had to transition over to nonlinear editing. With NLEs I started out on Avid, then learned Premiere (not Pro, the older Premiere), then FCP. Avid is back to being my mainstay, FCP 7 is still used at a lot of places and I'm keeping my eye on X and PPro. I'm also interested in Lightworks (waiting for Mac version) and Smoke (though Smoke doesn't really fit the long from, offline editing I typically do).

I think any editor worth their salt should be fluent with at least two NLEs as you never know when one might up and disappear on you and every NLE has its pros & cons so knowing more than one will help you pick the right tool for the job.
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Old Sep 2, 2013, 06:40 AM   #19
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I just read this over at Reduser and would like to share/enlighten people that still think its a toy:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Mestman - WMM View Post
Hey Guys,

There is some groundbreaking stuff in post happening these days... The age of dailies being a requirement that is necessary to begin editorial is coming to a close. On the latest installation that I'm currently doing for a $100 million dollar feature, using a combination of FCPX and Sync n Link X, we are able to get, for a multicamera EPIC shoot, 5k synced R3D's fully renamed according to scene, take, and camera angle off the cameras and ready to be edited in FCPX within 10 minutes of being downloaded... and you can do this from your laptop.

Forget on set looks... those are easy. Start thinking on set rough cuts. And start thinking fully prepped Events that get sent back to editorial with no trip to the lab.

Additionally, Intelligent Assistance has just released two new tools that fill in some major complaints people have had about FCPX in high level workflows.

Change List X solves the Change List Problem and you can now easily reconform in Pro Tools using FCPX.

Producer's Best Friend is, well, awesome, and allows you to distribute comprehensive .xls reports for your timelines and events... the uses for this are endless.

Both are available now on the App Store.

Additionally, we are using a PCI-E based ExaSAN system for group workflow in FCPX that allows for speeds up to 4800 MB/s and is configurable for up to around 750 TB of storage, and currently is allowing 2 streams of real time 5k EPIC playback across multiple machines playing back the same clip, from the same event, from the same project, at the same time. It's also less than half the price (and more than twice the speed) of a traditional Fiber Channel SAN system.

We are running circles around the Avid Unity.

And don't even get me started on metadata and what you're able to with that... we've come up with a system to make every single line of dialogue in a movie, and all commonly used script notes codes, easily searchable from the Event Browser. All it takes is a little planning, and a little communication ahead of time with your script supervisor.

At this point, I'm ready to take the Pepsi challenge against any high level NLE workflow out there... when it comes to price, performance, and ease of use... there really is no comparison, and this can be used on the highest levels of production. I am currently doing it.

And it will only get better.

Think I'm lying? Happy to show you a demo of all of this as soon as I'm back in the country (in a couple weeks). Come down to Lumaforge on The Lot in Hollywood, and I'll show you how it all works.
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Old Sep 2, 2013, 11:40 AM   #20
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I just read this over at Reduser and would like to share/enlighten people that still think its a toy:
I like what he wrote about media organization. I think this is the best part about FCPX, that you can enter ton of metadata and have smart folders.

The KEY to using FCPS is organization and designing a work flow. You have to dese where to keep the media and how to organize it and you need a HUGE and FAST storage system some place on the NETWORK then you can get at the footage from multiple computers. But planning this all out and sticking to the plan is a little hard for the average amateur. Planning a workflow is not fun and takes time and many experiments. But once you get it down then as he wrote, nearly instant rough cuts are possible and you can just keep cutting until you call it done. You can use FCPX features llike "auditions" and keep a half dozen alternate cuts on the time line and show then to people and then with one click select in the one that is "best".

One thing I want is better integration with Logic. I wnt to record and mix sound in Log without the export/import step.
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Old Sep 2, 2013, 03:02 PM   #21
adamneer
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Change is the name of the game, might as well get used to it now. No company lasts forever and neither do workflows. The world is a much different place now than it was in 1983 and it will be a much different place in 2043 than it is today.

I know more than a few people that learned cutting on film, then had to transition over to linear editing, then had to transition over to nonlinear editing. With NLEs I started out on Avid, then learned Premiere (not Pro, the older Premiere), then FCP. Avid is back to being my mainstay, FCP 7 is still used at a lot of places and I'm keeping my eye on X and PPro. I'm also interested in Lightworks (waiting for Mac version) and Smoke (though Smoke doesn't really fit the long from, offline editing I typically do).

I think any editor worth their salt should be fluent with at least two NLEs as you never know when one might up and disappear on you and every NLE has its pros & cons so knowing more than one will help you pick the right tool for the job.
I agree with this and I do change and adapt to new technology quite readily. However, I would just like to remind you that you are talking about an industry that still considers AVID (a system based off reel to reel editing) the go-to standard.
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Old Sep 2, 2013, 05:43 PM   #22
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I wish the magnetic timeline could be disabled. Then I would be a happy camper. Until then PP works great for me and it's hard to beat its integration with PS an AE.
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Old Sep 2, 2013, 06:46 PM   #23
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I wish the magnetic timeline could be disabled. Then I would be a happy camper. Until then PP works great for me and it's hard to beat its integration with PS an AE.
There is a button to switch the magnetic timeline off for positioning clips on other tracks (ie clips that are not on the timeline). For clips on the timeline, you can use the Position Tool (P) to place anywhere (leave gaps if you like).
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Old Sep 3, 2013, 09:25 AM   #24
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Excellent response from some of the MR users. I'll also like to add that the key to FCPX is to treat it as a completely new NLE, think of it as the future of NLE. It'll take time to learn the rules and ropes but once you do, you'll see how it speed things up and everything else feels outdated. At least that's how I feel once I started to learn FCPX seriously.

Good luck
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Old Sep 3, 2013, 06:46 PM   #25
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I've been using FCPX since a little after the release and I love it. The metadata/keyword is such an amazing feature. I'm in the process of going through 100+ interviews and making 50+ videos. I can go through tag and trim all of the clips in nearly 2x as fast as the length of the actual clip.
My process: plan keywords before, set them to the keyword, keyboard shortcuts (ctrl + 1...0). Start playback in the event using (J, K, L, I, O) and set an in and out point for everything. I have the event hide rejected clips so every in and out point that is garbage, I hit delete and it disappears. If there is a good clip that is usuable, I mark the In/Out and then apply my keyboard shortcut to add the keyword. I use favorites on anything I am certain I'd use. I then create smart collections per keyword for each video I'm going to make (made of multiple interviews). Seriously, I use PP as well and it can't compare with this step.
Other minor features that's nice about the timeline, I never have to worry about ever adding a clip to the timeline and having the audio replace the audio of a clip underneath it.

I will say that you can't really pick up and use FCPX in a week and know what you need to know. I've edited a lot, watched several tutorials and still learn new features about it.

While it's not perfect, the benefits outweigh any shortcomings it may have against other editors for certain projects. I'll admit, there are some videos that fit better with pp. A lot of people blatantly brush it off because it's too different. I feel like Apple is serious about continuing to improve and 'think different' about the way features have always been done, that it's only going to get better.
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