I'm trying my best to like the iMac but... I JUST DON'T GET IT

sigol · Sep 10, 2013

Hi,

This post is not flamebait, and neither am I looking to get a cheap rise out of the Mac community. So please take these comments on board with the genuine spirit in which they are intended. I'm not being disrespectful or anything like that - these are my genuine thoughts...

I've always been a Windows user from 3.1 all the way to 8. I'm a developer - a techie.

I bought an iMac 10.1 a couple of years ago and I'M SORRY BUT I JUST DON'T GET what the fuss is about.

I really am struggling to understand why there is so much emotion around having a Mac and why Windows is hated by the Mac community so much. Honestly I've tried. I promise I have. I just cannot understand why people rave on so much about their Mac!

The argument that Windows is not stable and so prone to viruses is very old now, and frankly a bit boring. Personally, I run Windows 7 and as a developer, I take it to the max and have never found any issue. It's rock solid for me. Whatever I develop, device drivers, very complex math routines, huge memory requirements, etc. it just works. And I've never had a virus either.

I run Windows on several servers, desktops and laptops. It runs great on everything I own. No Issue. EVER.

I find the Mac 10.1 (500 GB HD, Mountain Lion) 4GB RAM pretty slow. All I hear is the hard drive chugging away, like nothing is ever cached. In contrast, I have a virtually identical spec Windows PC - runs like a dream.

I think the way some of the programs are designed (like leather bound diaries and wooden bookshelves) a bit patronising to be honest. Are we really dummies? Do we need to relate our little on-screen diary to the one I have on my desk?

I REALLY CANNOT get used to this ridiculous touchy mousy thingy. If I just touch the mouse in the wrong position for a millisecond a window zooms off the screen! And when I try to maximize a window, it doesn't actually maximize (i.e. take up the whole window - e.g. Safari).

I really am struggling to find anything at all you can do on a Mac that you can't do equally well (or better) on Windows. The available software for PC totally dwarfs Mac. And all the top stuff like Adobe Photoshop CS6, etc. is available for Windows anyway. Gone are the days where if you were a designer, it had to be a Mac, in my opinion.

I'm sure you will all disagree, but I personally think ITunes is one of the worst-designed pieces of professional software ever. It's JUST AWFUL.

It makes me laugh every time I see a feature in the Mac that Apple has put an "i" in front of, or give it a fancy name, to claim it's theirs. "Expose" - it's a desktop manager. Brilliant. "Mission Control" - it's a menu with programs in it. Brilliant. "Time Machine" - previous versions of files. Brilliant.

Am I missing something, or does this sound like the Marketing Department gets the bulk of the budget at Apple?

I think Apple's claim that it is the "World's Most Advanced Operating System" is a bit rich, to be honest. It doesn't even have a built-in software uninstaller! (e.g. Windows Add/Remove programs) That's not particularly advanced, is it?

I hear in Mountain Lion one of the "key features" is that you can now have full-screen apps. Windows has had that since, well I can't remember how long ago it's that long ago.

And apparently in Mountain Lion, another "key feature" is the advanced App Store. I bet it is. More $$$.

What I particularly dislike is Apple's very aggressive and domineering stance when it comes to things like the AppStore and having open protocols, etc. Everything is closed - everything goes through Apple. This used to be one of the biggest criticisms of Microsoft - but they have changed SO MUCH in the last few years. They are really embracing open source technologies. Their flagship development framework is totally open source, for example.

On the contrary, Apple seem to be adopting the opposite approach with the AppStore, for example. I know I'm talking about the iOS specifically here, but they have single-handedly killed off Flash by not allowing it in to iOS. You may argue that's a good thing - but what right did they have for doing that? They hide behind the official rationale that it's buggy (there's plenty of other buggy stuff in iOS). The real reason is because you can write apps in Flash - and that means bypassing the AppStore and therefore bypassing paying Apple. It's that kind of attitude that annoys me slightly. Microsoft would have been butchered for doing that, but when Apple does it, nobody seems to care!

Anyway, this was supposed to be about my iMac, so let's get back to that.

My *honest* opinion is this:

The iMac looks cool. I mean it really does. It's gorgeous - a work of art.

But isn't that it? Is there more function behind the form, that I'm just not seeing?

Like I said at the start, I WANT to love my iMac - that's where all the apparently cool kids are these days. But I JUST DON'T GET IT.

So, please convince me. What is it I'm missing?

Thanks.

Scrub175 · Sep 10, 2013

Welcome to macrumors. Hope you enjoy your stay...

simsaladimbamba · Sep 10, 2013

sigol said:
I really am struggling to understand why there is so much emotion around having a Mac and why Windows is hated by the Mac community so much. Honestly I've tried. I promise I have. I just cannot understand why people rave on so much about their Mac!

That is only a perceived small sample of Mac users, as there are also some Windows or Linux users with the same attitude.
Most people using computers, be it with OS X or Windows or Linux have other worries to care about and spend their borrowed energy elsewhere, sometimes it is even productive.

I run Windows on several servers, desktops and laptops. It runs great on everything I own. No Issue. EVER.

As you said, you are a "techie".

I find the Mac 10.1 (500 GB HD, Mountain Lion) 4GB RAM pretty slow. All I hear is the hard drive chugging away, like nothing is ever cached. In contrast, I have a virtually identical spec Windows PC - runs like a dream.

You probably take good care of your Windows machine?

I think the way some of the programs are designed (like leather bound diaries and wooden bookshelves) a bit patronising to be honest. Are we really dummies? Do we need to relate our little on-screen diary to the one I have on my desk?

That is hopefully a thing of the past, but then again, not every Mac application and not even the higher percentage of them, look like this.

I REALLY CANNOT get used to this ridiculous touchy mousy thingy. If I just touch the mouse in the wrong position for a millisecond a window zooms off the screen! And when I try to maximize a window, it doesn't actually maximize (i.e. take up the whole window - e.g. Safari).

Use another mouse. While the Magic Mouse is productive for some, it is not so for others. I bought it, thunking it would be a great addition, but my hands are to big and I just prefer buttons.
As for the "maximise" stuff, it pertains to the content and not to the display resolution.

I really am struggling to find anything at all you can do on a Mac that you can't do equally well (or better) on Windows. The available software for PC totally dwarfs Mac. And all the top stuff like Adobe Photoshop CS6, etc. is available for Windows anyway. Gone are the days where if you were a designer, it had to be a Mac, in my opinion.

It comes down to the OS you are working on, and some minds are better served with OS X and some with Windows.
Not everyone thinks alike.
I for instance am very well versed in Windows, but my mind just cannot get around its design.
I worked in editing environments using Avid Media Composer on Windows and Mac OS X. Windows always gave me grief, Mac OS X does too, but not thaaaaaaat much. Avid Media Composer is another thing though, it can give a lot of grief regardless on which platform it is used.

I'm sure you will all disagree, but I personally think ITunes is one of the worst-designed pieces of professional software ever. It's JUST AWFUL.

Yeah, it has become dreadful in some places. Most of the time I just use VLC Player for my music needs now.

It makes me laugh every time I see a feature in the Mac that Apple has put an "i" in front of, or give it a fancy name, to claim it's theirs. "Expose" - it's a desktop manager. Brilliant. "Mission Control" - it's a menu with programs in it. Brilliant. "Time Machine" - previous versions of files. Brilliant.

And? Windows does not have something like Exposé or Spaces or Mission Control or Time Machine (though Windows 7 introduced some kind of automatic backup system if I remember correctly). There need to be names for features, otherwise how will you call it during troubleshooting season?

Am I missing something, or does this sound like the Marketing Department gets the bulk of the budget at Apple?

It may appear though from your perspective, but then again, the bulk of the extensive budget goes somewhere else. Look at the quarterly reports of Apple if you want to know where.

I think Apple's claim that it is the "World's Most Advanced Operating System" is a bit rich, to be honest. It doesn't even have a built-in software uninstaller! (e.g. Windows Add/Remove programs) That's not particularly advanced, is it?

It is advanced enough, that you do not NEED a software uninstaller. For most users it does suffice to simply delete the application they want to uninstall. The remaining files are not big enough to be a serious storage capacity problem nor are those files intervening with other applications.
If you really want to uninstall an application completely, use Finder:

Best way to FULLY DELETE a program without the need of any additional, inefficient applications

Visual presentation of the steps outlined in above link:

I hear in Mountain Lion one of the "key features" is that you can now have full-screen apps. Windows has had that since, well I can't remember how long ago it's that long ago.

Mac OS and Mac OS X are window based operating systems and not application based like Windows is. Thus something like fullscreen applications for Mac OS X is a new thing in a way.

And apparently in Mountain Lion, another "key feature" is the advanced App Store. I bet it is. More $$$.

And other companies do their business for charity? While the Mac App Store (MAS) might not be the best thing to ever come out of Infinite Loop 1, it is a feature many users with less computer knowledge can rely on due to the screening methods by Apple and the delivery system.

What I particularly dislike is Apple's very aggressive and domineering stance when it comes to things like the AppStore and having open protocols, etc. Everything is closed - everything goes through Apple. This used to be one of the biggest criticisms of Microsoft - but they have changed SO MUCH in the last few years. They are really embracing open source technologies. Their flagship development framework is totally open source, for example.

And the users, that actually care about such issues, which are in the minority, can actually embrace the openness via not using the MAS, as one can still do that.

On the contrary, Apple seem to be adopting the opposite approach with the AppStore, for example. I know I'm talking about the iOS specifically here, but they have single-handedly killed off Flash by not allowing it in to iOS. You may argue that's a good thing - but what right did they have for doing that? They hide behind the official rationale that it's buggy (there's plenty of other buggy stuff in iOS). The real reason is because you can write apps in Flash - and that means bypassing the AppStore and therefore bypassing paying Apple. It's that kind of attitude that annoys me slightly. Microsoft would have been butchered for doing that, but when Apple does it, nobody seems to care!

It is a good thing, just alone for battery life. And look, better methods than Flash did appear to display website content.

Anyway, this was supposed to be about my iMac, so let's get back to that.

I do not think so, you just wanted to get your thoughts out, which is more than okay. And you do it at least with proper spelling.

The iMac looks cool. I mean it really does. It's gorgeous - a work of art.

But isn't that it? Is there more function behind the form, that I'm just not seeing?

Yes, there is, but as your mind, or way of thinking, is better served with Windows, why put the energy forth to be satisfied by something else?

Like I said at the start, I WANT to love my iMac - that's where all the apparently cool kids are these days. But I JUST DON'T GET IT.

Either you get it, or you do not. Nothing bad.

So, please convince me.

Why?

What is it I'm missing?

Probably nothing. Just sell or donate the iMac and get on with your life. Windows does serve you very well, no need to partake in a battle of OS fights within yourself.

Just as small ****** story:

When I built my Hackintosh, I had problems getting it to work due to my incompetence with a small and simple step I completely did not understand.
I had Windows running on that machine, Windows 7 on a beafy beast, for three or four days. Not long enough to get to know each other, but I got physical headaches using it due to it being too confusing for me, so I thought. Later I realized, it was the colours that were bringing me headaches, because there are so many of them.
Why OS X might look numb and dumbed down, it is easier to look at, as it blends away in the background.

Anyway, what was I going to say? Ah, the neighbour from across the courtyard probably has a very healthy sex life, as I heard her twice last night. Ah, those green lush fields of spinach. Rosenkohl rocks.

Santabean2000 · Sep 10, 2013

Macs are not for everyone. I hear there are some great Windows forums...

BenTrovato · Sep 10, 2013

If you are a techie as you are described, you'll understand that to "get it" you'll need to own it and spend some time with the product. Then you will see There's absolutely no difference between Windows, OS x, and Linux. They are all different and can accomplish more or less the same thing. I have been using all 3 for quite a while. There's nothing to get, same pig with different lipstick. My laptop is a Mac because I like how it looks, feels, and types. For a desktop I have no need to pay the premium.

Seriously, a techie? Come on. You should know they are all the same. There is nothing drastic between the different software, at least not in today's marketplace.

A techie wouldn't make posts like this.

costabunny · Sep 10, 2013

Everyone is different and some don't get the mac way of doing things.

I disagree that all mac users hate windows. I use both and each has their merits. I am a mac person more tho because I love the way things do just knit together with little fuss. Yes I am a very experienced multi disciplinary tech; but I don't want to use those skillsets on my own stuff all the time. Thats my personal viewpoint and as is yours; we are both entitled to it.

Please ignore any lol'ers or haters; generally speaking the community is fairly open minded to points of view (unless you stray into the iPhone forums....thats a dark scary place that even brave bunnies dare not to tread...).

If you don't get the mac, thats fine. You seem to appreciate the design elements, but prefer the way windows systems operate.

At least you took the time to detail your opinions and not just flame the not uncommon 'macs suck' approach.

Good discussionis always welcomed here.

Kissaragi · Sep 10, 2013

Install windows on it, buy a new mouse and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

sigol · Sep 10, 2013

@simsaladimbamba

Thank you for your excellent reply. Really appreciated. I agree with much of what you say, just want to pick you up on a few points:

"You probably take good care of your Windows machine?" -

If you're implying that I haven't of the iMac, I have taken more care of it than most 'regular' users. Being frustrated with its speed issues, I have recently completely wiped it and done a full-reinstall, even doing the slow format in the process. Since then, it's virtually plain vanilla and it still runs quite slow compared to the same spec Windows 7.

The Mouse -

Glad I'm not the only bloke with builders' hands! I thought it was just me.

"There need to be names for features" -

Fair enough but my argument is that they are pushed by the Apple Marketing Machine like they're the biggest thing ever. I feel they're over-egging the pudding somewhat. The Previous Versions feature has been in Windows since XP2.

"It is advanced enough, that you do not NEED a software uninstaller" -

I disagree with your point here. How can an operating system be marketed as the "World's Most Advanced" when it leaves stray files when you delete an application? I don't understand how they can claim that, I really don't.

"And other companies do their business for charity?" -

No, of course not, but my point was that Microsoft's biggest criticism was that they stifled competition. I agree that they did - but not half as much any more. They've opened up and embraced community MASSIVELY. I don't see that from Apple. I think Apple is bad for the industry in this regard. They're the ones stifling competition now.

"can rely on due to the screening methods by Apple and the delivery system" -

Very fair point. I hadn't considered that, for "basic" users certainly a fair argument there.

"I do not think so, you just wanted to get your thoughts out, which is more than okay. And you do it at least with proper spelling." -

I suppose - I'm not looking for a war, I'm just genuinely frustrated with this iMac.

"Probably nothing. Just sell or donate the iMac and get on with your life. Windows does serve you very well, no need to partake in a battle of OS fights within yourself." -

I have already donated it to my 8 year old. Let's see if he "gets it"!

"Anyway, what was I going to say? Ah, the neighbour from across the courtyard probably has a very healthy sex life, as I heard her twice last night. Ah, those green lush fields of spinach. Rosenkohl rocks." -

Loved that. Brightened my day!

Thanks for your feedback.

----------

Santabean2000 said:
Macs are not for everyone. I hear there are some great Windows forums...

Yes there are, but I need to hear from Mac users, wouldn't you agree?

----------

simsaladimbamba said:
Not everyone can put thoughts into words or wants to put their energy into a reply, thus those LOLers have to appear somewhere, you know, because its cool and YOLO and owls are fine creatures.

And if you have the time to laugh, look for Nina Conti.

lol

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BenTrovato said:
If you are a techie as you are described, you'll understand that to "get it" you'll need to own it and spend some time with the product. Then you will see There's absolutely no difference between Windows, OS x, and Linux. They are all different and can accomplish more or less the same thing. I have been using all 3 for quite a while. There's nothing to get, same pig with different lipstick. My laptop is a Mac because I like how it looks, feels, and types. For a desktop I have no need to pay the premium.

Seriously, a techie? Come on. You should know they are all the same. There is nothing drastic between the different software, at least not in today's marketplace.

A techie wouldn't make posts like this.

A techie DID make a post like this. And I'm quite within my rights to too. I've owned this machine for nearly two years. I've spent hour after hour with it and always find myself turning back to Windows. I just feel patronised every time I use it.

The reason for my post is borne out of pure frustration - I hear some much BS coming from people re their wonderful Mac and why Windows and Microsoft is evil. I even saw somebody use M$ the other day! Still. in 2013. Really?

simsaladimbamba · Sep 10, 2013

sigol said:
@simsaladimbamba

"You probably take good care of your Windows machine?" -

If you're implying that I haven't of the iMac, I have taken more care of it than most 'regular' users. Being frustrated with its speed issues, I have recently completely wiped it and done a full-reinstall, even doing the slow format in the process. Since then, it's virtually plain vanilla and it still runs quite slow compared to the same spec Windows 7.

Hmm, I have heard that argument often, and it may be true, but I also do not like using HDDs as primary booting devices anymore, thus I cannot compare.
I upgraded my 2007 iMac with an SSD and it sprung to new life.
And while 4 GB RAM might be okay for some, and OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion loves RAM more than anything, I have seen "kernel_task" using almost 3 GB on someone's Mac, more RAM might be a lot of help.

The Mouse -

Glad I'm not the only bloke with builders' hands! I thought it was just me.

Yeah, the mouse is atrocious. I donated it to my brother, but I have not seen him use it too, and he really uses his hands for building or repairing or making wood or cutting sheep's toenails.

"There need to be names for features" -

Fair enough but my argument is that they are pushed by the Apple Marketing Machine like they're the biggest thing ever. I feel they're over-egging the pudding somewhat. The Previous Versions feature has been in Windows since XP2.

While I remember that XP SP2 feature, it was not as user friendly for common computer users. Time Machine, if it works, I do not use it anymore, is great for Jane Doe and John Doe (not related or married, or both), who can hardly format a disk drive or uninstall applications properly.

"It is advanced enough, that you do not NEED a software uninstaller" -

I disagree with your point here. How can an operating system be marketed as the "World's Most Advanced" when it leaves stray files when you delete an application? I don't understand how they can claim that, I really don't.

The Windows Add/Remove Programs feature does leave files behind too, look at that registry disaster, though I do not know if it still exists in Windows 6.1 (MS is not better, naming stuff like Windows 6.1 "Windows 7" and Windows 6.3 "Windows 8").
And while files are left behind, they do not interfere with the remaining applications or the OS.

"And other companies do their business for charity?" -

No, of course not, but my point was that Microsoft's biggest criticism was that they stifled competition. I agree that they did - but not half as much any more. They've opened up and embraced community MASSIVELY. I don't see that from Apple. I think Apple is bad for the industry in this regard. They're the ones stifling competition now.

They do it in other ways, look at the MAS or the iOS App Store. While there are restrictions, it brought many new developers into the game and made it popular to develop software.

"can rely on due to the screening methods by Apple and the delivery system" -

Very fair point. I hadn't considered that, for "basic" users certainly a fair argument there.

I am for example not a basic user and use the methods available to get software, which is hardly using the MAS, though there are some fine examples of available software there. It is just one other channel, and for something to evolve, something else has to wither.

"I do not think so, you just wanted to get your thoughts out, which is more than okay. And you do it at least with proper spelling." -

I suppose - I'm not looking for a war, I'm just genuinely frustrated with this iMac.

Even if had the best arguments in the world, it will always look like a war.
Imagine if we put the energy we put into those fan wars (football/soccer, Star Trek / Star Wars, Windows / Mac, ... / ..., ...) into something more productive, we would accomplish great things, but no, we hold ourselves back for this ****, me included as it seems.

"Probably nothing. Just sell or donate the iMac and get on with your life. Windows does serve you very well, no need to partake in a battle of OS fights within yourself." -

I have already donated it to my 8 year old. Let's see if he "gets it"!

Depends on the percentage of your genes.

"Anyway, what was I going to say? Ah, the neighbour from across the courtyard probably has a very healthy sex life, as I heard her twice last night. Ah, those green lush fields of spinach. Rosenkohl rocks." -

Loved that. Brightened my day!

Thanks for your feedback.

No problem, I can deliver more of these nonsense sentences, I even wrote a short story once with only one sentence and it was in a way logical. Strange.

Yes there are, but I need to hear from Mac users, wouldn't you agree?

I agree, but also see it from the point of people, who have seen countless of these threads, all pertaining to the same issue and the OP wanting to be convinced of something, that they cannot convince the OP, as it is something the OP has to convince him- or herself of.

Anyway, what was I going to say. Ah, YouTube is great to see the whole Mac vs. Windows debate from a completely other angle, the angle of drunken idiots having nothing to eat, but still having enough energy to type 500 characters of nibbling nonsense about something so irrelevant as what OS to use.

mmomega · Sep 10, 2013

So one waits 4 years to bring up complaints about their iMac?

I personally would have sold it and moved on by now if I didn't like the machine.

What is the point of using a mouse that you do not like?

What is the point of using an OS that you do not understand?

I can not understand this logic from a supposed techie, don't you guys buy exactly what you want and change it immediately if it doesn't suit your taste?

Like, selling your touchy mousy thingy and having plenty of cash left over to buy another mouse you would enjoy..... but you hang on to the one you don't like to stay miserable?

Why 4 years later does this come out? I just don't know.

This is like people who stay in a toxic relationship/marriage because they've already put so much time in. Get rid of the negative and move on.

Obviously there's nothing one can say to change your mind and who'd want to spend the time trying, I'm just saying........ unless you are a techie who likes to stir the pot. Now this makes much more sense.

You..... I see what you did there you.

In the end hopefully you can get that Mac sold and move on and be happier in life, why spend even a fraction of it hating a computer and a piece of software of all things?

johto · Sep 10, 2013

sigol said:
Is there more function behind the form, that I'm just not seeing?

Like I said at the start, I WANT to love my iMac - that's where all the apparently cool kids are these days. But I JUST DON'T GET IT.

So, please convince me. What is it I'm missing?

Thanks.

It's plain obvious you are new to the OS X operating system (perhaps also new to unix/linux enviroments). Please stop whining and get this to get a better view of the OS X.

OS X Mountain Lion: The Missing Manual
http://www.amazon.com/OS-Mountain-Lion-Missing-Manual/dp/1449330274

sigol · Sep 10, 2013

costabunny said:
Everyone is different and some don't get the mac way of doing things.

Agreed.

costabunny said:
I disagree that all mac users hate windows. I use both and each has their merits. I am a mac person more tho because I love the way things do just knit together with little fuss. Yes I am a very experienced multi disciplinary tech; but I don't want to use those skillsets on my own stuff all the time. Thats my personal viewpoint and as is yours; we are both entitled to it.

Of course I agree with you that not every Mac user hates Windows. If that came across from my message, then apologies that was wrong.

But what do you mean "things do just knit together with little fuss?" It's exactly that sort of thing that confuses me. Like what? What's knitting together on the Mac that's not knitting together on the PC?

costabunny said:
Please ignore any lol'ers or haters; generally speaking the community is fairly open minded to points of view (unless you stray into the iPhone forums....thats a dark scary place that even brave bunnies dare not to tread...).

Ha - like it. Don't even get me started in the iPhone. Even cults are afraid to tread in there. And the lolers are fine by me. Why have a cogent argument when lol will do.

costabunny said:
If you don't get the mac, thats fine. You seem to appreciate the design elements, but prefer the way windows systems operate.

I love the way it looks. It's beautiful. I just don't turn it on all that much!

costabunny said:
At least you took the time to detail your opinions and not just flame the not uncommon 'macs suck' approach.

Good discussionis always welcomed here.

Thanks. That's why I set my stall out at the start of the post. I'm looking for genuine answers here - and I hope you can see by my replies, I'm more than happy to agree with rational answers if they're fair.

I am asking to be convinced why I should invest more time in my iMac. It's for the same reason you describe above - I want to expand my knowledge and put my feet in to other camps. But I'm just not seeing the point.

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Kissaragi said:
Install windows on it, buy a new mouse and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

It's cool - my house is ALL open plan thanks. Except the toilet. Obviously.

notjustjay · Sep 10, 2013

sigol said:
I really am struggling to understand why there is so much emotion around having a Mac and why Windows is hated by the Mac community so much. Honestly I've tried. I promise I have. I just cannot understand why people rave on so much about their Mac!

The argument that Windows is not stable and so prone to viruses is very old now...

Frankly, I think you just answered your own question. It's 2013. Windows is pretty decent now. BSODs and viruses and malware are not quite a thing of the past but they are certainly far less prevalent than they were 10 years ago. And PCs are priced way more aggressively now than they were back then (complete working laptops for $299?) and equally-featured (if not equally-spec'd).

I switched over to the Mac in 2003. Back then, Windows laptops were big and heavy and had 3-4 hours of battery life, and didn't include key hardware features like Firewire ports, which were standard on every Mac. I bought one that did -- the Dell Latitude D800 -- specifically for video editing, and it ran me almost $2000 -- inching closer to the price of a PowerBook G4.

They ran Windows XP which was prone to viruses and spyware. If you didn't set up your machine correctly you were in DLL or registry hell. Shame on you if you didn't immediately set up a firewall and virus scanner. I actually tried that once, with an XP netbook. Lent it to a teenage girl to surf for an hour, BOOM, she picked up a virus.

XP came with Windows Movie Maker, a lame excuse of a video editor. It had no built in ability to burn movie DVDs or manage photos. It did, at least, have some music software in the form of WMP.

Back then, I bought a PowerBook G4 laptop just to test the Mac waters. I wasn't too impressed initially at first with OS X 10.2 (Jaguar). But the thing came with all the ports and adapters needed to be useful immediately. It came with iMovie and iDVD and iPhoto and iTunes and all that good stuff. It used neat protocols like Rendezvous (aka Bonjour aka Zeroconf) which made it seem almost magical that I could just turn on a nearby network printer and the OS found it instantly. And, even better, I could drop into a Unix shell at any time I got tired of the candy-coated user interface.

Best of all, it really wasn't that much of a price premium when you factored in the cost of getting your PC upgraded to the same hardware specs, like adding a PCMCIA firewire card to a laptop or buying one that had one.

Fast forward 10 years and the tech world is completely different.

Apple has done some cost cutting. They no longer include all the adaptors and dongles, they make you buy each one separately at $30-40 each. They've switched to x86 architecture so the hardware is virtually the same as any PC. They've all but done away with ports like Firewire. Sure the costs have gone done, but PC prices have also dropped like a rock.

Software-wise, Windows has become leaps and bounds better, more stable, less virus prone.

Meanwhile, I hate to say it guys, Mac software has kind of stagnated. iPhoto and iTunes are pretty much the same as they've been for 10+ years. iTunes has become bloated (I have to use my music program to sync my photos with my cell phone? How does that make any sense?) iMovie is cool but to edit any AVCHD video I need to transcode to an intermediate format first which takes gobs of time and hard disk space. No such issue in the Windows world. So I stopped trying to edit video on my Mac, even though that was the whole reason I switched to Apple in the first place!

For the past 10 years I have seen so many people switch from PCs to Macs and they all said they loved the switch. But more recently, many of them are switching back. Even I'm very very tempted by the prospect of a new Surface Pro or maybe a convertible ultrabook like the Lenovo Yoga.

Bottom line: yeah, if you're a tech and you're comfortable already in the Windows world, then there's no real reason to switch aside from beautiful hardware. Macs are still a great computing platform, but they are not perfect. Cracks are showing in the candy-coated veneer, perhaps because Apple as a company is much more interested today in producing shiny disposal iToys than they are a full-fledged computing platform. (Case in point: how long has it taken them to update the Pro line?)

sigol · Sep 10, 2013

johto said:
It's plain obvious you are new to the OS X operating system (perhaps also new to unix/linux enviroments). Please stop whining and get this to get a better view of the OS X.

OS X Mountain Lion: The Missing Manual
http://www.amazon.com/OS-Mountain-Lion-Missing-Manual/dp/1449330274

Wouldn't exactly say "new to it". I've had the machine for around 2 years now. And I'm not "whining" exactly, but I do have to point of what I see as things that I "don't get", otherwise there wouldn't be anything to actually post.

I may well buy the manual.

shiekh · Sep 10, 2013

I'm a long time Mac user that has been trying Windows 7 lately, and I must agree that Windows is now rock solid stable and has a reasonable user interface. Microsoft have caught up. Now I am no longer sure what my next machine will be, so I think the original poster has many a good point.

Consultant · Sep 10, 2013

1) iMac 10,1 was released in 2009 and is about 4 years old. Finding a 4 year old computer "slow" is not surprising. However, if you compare a similar 4 year old Mac with 4 year old PC, I believe the Mac will be more responsive.

2) Most Macs sold are laptops, and people love the multi-touch trackpads.

3) Apple constantly tries out new technology, the trade off is that sometimes they are not a hit. However, since then Apple has perfected the multi-touch trackpad. You are welcome to use your own mouse with a Mac of course, there's no wait for the OS to "install driver."

4) Many people who are stuck in 90s' manually arranging file with folders have problems with modern database centric way of iTunes. (Heck no, the horse carriage is good enough, I don't need a car with all kinds of new fangled control devices and such).

5) Complain about the 'i'. Yes you are trying to get a cheap rise.

6) Removing apps from a Mac is easy and you won't leave registry entries behind that slow down Windows.

7) Apple runs App Store at break even. The developers and users benefit.

8) LOL complaining about Flash. Ignoring why Google's Android tried to embrace flash, failed, and abandoned flash.

9) A tool is as functional as the brain behind it. Some people just don't have what it takes to work more efficiently.

Enjoy defragging, managing your file system, and waiting for virus scans on your Windows computer.

notjustjay · Sep 10, 2013

shiekh said:
I'm a long time Mac user that has been trying Windows 7 lately, and I must agree that Windows is now rock solid stable and has a reasonable user interface. Microsoft have caught up. Now I am no longer sure what my next machine will be, so I think the original poster has many a good point.

Yup. Apple still has an edge on build quality though, which is the main reason why I'm not already typing this on a Windows convertible. Surface Pro looks pretty sweet except for the crappy battery life. Sony has some interesting products out there to compete with the MacBook Air but they are not in the same league for build quality. And I wouldn't even touch any of the budget laptops.

Happy to give Windows 8 a try, once I find a piece of hardware I like!

costabunny · Sep 10, 2013

Fr me the knitting together is manyfold. I think the comon example is the way my phone, tablet and desktop all share easily with each other. I take pictures on my phone and my desktop/ipad have them. My contacts are automatically synced between all three. I love the way that if i am on the ipad reading a webpage, put it down and then goto the desktop; i can see what pages i have open and continue from there.

I think it is more about having all my devices working together that makes it knit for me. I also have the apple TV and thats awesome - all my iTunes stuff nad everything else streamed via my phone to the tv box. Simply and wirelessly. Same with my desktop putting its screen up on the tv in another room.

I love time machine and the simple and almost invisible way it is intergrated into my digital workspace. I meed an older file or one i deleted - its so simple to browse to it and restore or open to check contents. I have yet to find something on any other platform that works so well.

Couple that with the unix way much of he OS works and its why i am primarily a mac person. Infact my windows side is only really used for games nowadays.

Thats my view on it all knitting together. I guess some users don't have all the apple toys or dont want them as they prefer others. Then i think its knitting isnt so important.

sigol · Sep 10, 2013

mmomega said:
So one waits 4 years to bring up complaints about their iMac?

I personally would have sold it and moved on by now if I didn't like the machine.

What is the point of using a mouse that you do not like?

What is the point of using an OS that you do not understand?

I can not understand this logic from a supposed techie, don't you guys buy exactly what you want and change it immediately if it doesn't suit your taste?

Like, selling your touchy mousy thingy and having plenty of cash left over to buy another mouse you would enjoy..... but you hang on to the one you don't like to stay miserable?

Why 4 years later does this come out? I just don't know.

This is like people who stay in a toxic relationship/marriage because they've already put so much time in. Get rid of the negative and move on.

Obviously there's nothing one can say to change your mind and who'd want to spend the time trying, I'm just saying........ unless you are a techie who likes to stir the pot. Now this makes much more sense.

You..... I see what you did there you.

In the end hopefully you can get that Mac sold and move on and be happier in life, why spend even a fraction of it hating a computer and a piece of software of all things?

4 years? Who said 4 years? I bought the Mac 2 years ago, and it's mainly been furniture for a lot of that time. Albeit, beautiful furniture.

I moved on a long long time ago. But, I thought I'd invest one last day in to trying to love it before I gave it to my son.

You clearly don't get my point here: "What is the point of using an OS that you do not understand?"

WHAT'S TO UNDERSTAND?

WHAT AM I MISSING?

Re the toxic relationship thing, you obviously aren't reading my answers here. Yeh I've been sat here for 4 straight years now trying to "understand" this operating system. You should see the bills piling up at the door.

I bought the thing, used it for a while, moved on many moons ago. But, before I give it to my son, I thought I'd have once last attempt to like it.

It's amazing that whenever anybody from the "outside" tries to put an alternative point of view across, it's just another techie from another cult trying to stir the pot. Are we all still 12 years old?

Yes, you are right. My life has been hell for 4 I mean 2 years now. Shear hell. Thanks for pointing that out. I'll burn it tonight the moment I get home, then my life will immediately be better. I wondered what it was - all those hours spent in turmoil and depression. Thanks I owe you one. Nice one.

----------

costabunny said:
Fr me the knitting together is manyfold. I think the comon example is the way my phone, tablet and desktop all share easily with each other. I take pictures on my phone and my desktop/ipad have them. My contacts are automatically synced between all three. I love the way that if i am on the ipad reading a webpage, put it down and then goto the desktop; i can see what pages i have open and continue from there.

I think it is more about having all my devices working together that makes it knit for me. I also have the apple TV and thats awesome - all my iTunes stuff nad everything else streamed via my phone to the tv box. Simply and wirelessly. Same with my desktop putting its screen up on the tv in another room.

I love time machine and the simple and almost invisible way it is intergrated into my digital workspace. I meed an older file or one i deleted - its so simple to browse to it and restore or open to check contents. I have yet to find something on any other platform that works so well.

Couple that with the unix way much of he OS works and its why i am primarily a mac person. Infact my windows side is only really used for games nowadays.

Thats my view on it all knitting together. I guess some users don't have all the apple toys or dont want them as they prefer others. Then i think its knitting isnt so important.

Thanks for that. I totally get all of what you said and I can see how many users would appreciate that.

Of course, much of this (if not all) is achievable in Windows pretty easily too. But I guess, you have to look for it more. But fair point, thanks.

----------

notjustjay said:
Frankly, I think you just answered your own question. It's 2013. Windows is pretty decent now. BSODs and viruses and malware are not quite a thing of the past but they are certainly far less prevalent than they were 10 years ago. And PCs are priced way more aggressively now than they were back then (complete working laptops for $299?) and equally-featured (if not equally-spec'd).

Thanks for your reply. Appreciated and I agree with much of what you say.

----------

notjustjay said:
Yup. Apple still has an edge on build quality though, which is the main reason why I'm not already typing this on a Windows convertible. Surface Pro looks pretty sweet except for the crappy battery life. Sony has some interesting products out there to compete with the MacBook Air but they are not in the same league for build quality. And I wouldn't even touch any of the budget laptops.

Happy to give Windows 8 a try, once I find a piece of hardware I like!

Hmm not sure Surface is the right choice either though. VERY mixed feeling about that yet.

Kissaragi · Sep 10, 2013

sigol said:
It's amazing that whenever anybody from the "outside" tries to put an alternative point of view across, it's just another techie from another cult trying to stir the pot. Are we all still 12 years old?

Its because of the way your approaching it. Capitalising words for NO REASON is going to wind people up from the start.

Theres also simply no reason why you should like a mac more. You obviously prefer windows so use windows. macs are not "better" just different, some prefer one, some prefer the other.

Why you have to turn this very simple concept of personal choice into this huge dramatic thing is why people are dismissing you.

Cut your losses, accept you like windows more and give the iMac to your son.

sigol · Sep 10, 2013

shiekh said:
I'm a long time Mac user that has been trying Windows 7 lately, and I must agree that Windows is now rock solid stable and has a reasonable user interface. Microsoft have caught up. Now I am no longer sure what my next machine will be, so I think the original poster has many a good point.

Thanks for your message. Windows is not perfect by any means, what is? But it is definitely rock solid. I haven't seen a BSOD in literally years.

Lunfai · Sep 10, 2013

sigol said:
4 years? Who said 4 years? I bought the Mac 2 years ago, and it's mainly been furniture for a lot of that time. Albeit, beautiful furniture.

I moved on a long long time ago. But, I thought I'd invest one last day in to trying to love it before I gave it to my son.

You clearly don't get my point here: "What is the point of using an OS that you do not understand?"

WHAT'S TO UNDERSTAND?

WHAT AM I MISSING?

Re the toxic relationship thing, you obviously aren't reading my answers here. Yeh I've been sat here for 4 straight years now trying to "understand" this operating system. You should see the bills piling up at the door.

I bought the thing, used it for a while, moved on many moons ago. But, before I give it to my son, I thought I'd have once last attempt to like it.

It's amazing that whenever anybody from the "outside" tries to put an alternative point of view across, it's just another techie from another cult trying to stir the pot. Are we all still 12 years old?

Yes, you are right. My life has been hell for 4 I mean 2 years now. Shear hell. Thanks for pointing that out. I'll burn it tonight the moment I get home, then my life will immediately be better. I wondered what it was - all those hours spent in turmoil and depression. Thanks I owe you one. Nice one.

----------

Thanks for that. I totally get all of what you said and I can see how many users would appreciate that.

Of course, much of this (if not all) is achievable in Windows pretty easily too. But I guess, you have to look for it more. But fair point, thanks.

Hello ^^. I'd like to chime in this conversation. I switched to macs after I bought my first iPhone (4) and I just loved the simplicity of the product that I wanted to sample other products by Apple.

I've used Windows for the majority of my life and I still use it today with OS X. I can see that both operating systems have it's own points but mainly the hardware is incomparable. Asus has caught up slightly but Apple has definitely proved to be the strongest in this category.

Some may argue one is better then the other (OS) but each has it's own perks. I hate something's in both but that's why I try and use them both to meet my needs, hence if OS X doesn't meet your needs at all then I understand.

The laptops are great investments because the resale value and the value you get when buying them is unmatchable. For me I can take it in the Apple Shop to fix/diagnose, where as fixing/diagnose my Asus laptop wouldn't be as simple.

Anyway what I'm trying to say is that if you buy a family an iMac, then it'll be far easier to service it or fix it if it's broken. There's also support for these products and tutorials on how to use it if you're not experienced, but everything is very simple anyway. (Training sessions in apple stores etc. one to one).

Since you are a techie it might not be good for you but it can be for others. It's hard to word this up but I hope you understand.

Actually to sum it up, it's more then just the OS it's the hardware and support that's available.

sigol · Sep 10, 2013

Kissaragi said:
Its because of the way your approaching it. Capitalising words for NO REASON is going to wind people up from the start.

Theres also simply no reason why you should like a mac more. You obviously prefer windows so use windows. macs are not "better" just different, some prefer one, some prefer the other.

Why you have to turn this very simple concept of personal choice into this huge dramatic thing is why people are dismissing you.

Cut your losses, accept you like windows more and give the iMac to your son.

If capital words wind people up, then they need to go check themselves out in the mirror and take stock of their lives.

Huge dramatic thing? Really? Not exactly handbags at midnight, try relaxation tapes. I hear whale noises are good.

Choctaw · Sep 10, 2013

sigol said:
Hi,.
I REALLY CANNOT get used to this My *honest* opinion is this:
The iMac looks cool. I mean it really does. It's gorgeous - a work of art.
But isn't that it? I WANT to love my iMac - that's where all the apparently cool kids are these days. But I JUST DON'T GET IT! Thanks.

I am a user of Both PC/Mac but not like you, I am just an old fellow who can enjoy a challenge and the computer is my plaything. Also you probably are not one of those cool kids you refer to, they are just fun lovers and want the going thing at the time.

You can make those screens do anything you want by learning. I use Google and type in how do I ".....on a mac" it takes a bit of browsing around, but the answers come.... sometimes it's a quick key, other times it's knowing what and where to click that mouse you so dislike. At first my mouse was working backwards from my MS mouse. I bitched a bit, then found a switch in the mouse section, now I have two of the little fellows that work alike.

Maybe, just maybe you don't want what Apple computers offer, and that is OK. Sure enough, none of us have to "as you say LOVE the thing". Friend, it's all about what you need to accomplish a satisfactory results. Life is too short to spend time unhappy about what you have.............if something really is upsetting, then get rid of it and move on. Other wise search out some tutorials on your Mac and I am sure when you have spent time with it, like you have on the MS platform you will better understand them both.

I know this will not help your attitude, but it helped mine just realizing what I am going through in my learning curve by starting to enjoy and understand that a person can have two different OS and does not need to love either of them. Keep that Mac, it's good therapy to see both sides of things.
Choctaw

sigol · Sep 10, 2013

Consultant said:
1) iMac 10,1 was released in 2009 and is about 4 years old. Finding a 4 year old computer "slow" is not surprising. However, if you compare a similar 4 year old Mac with 4 year old PC, I believe the Mac will be more responsive.

Disagree.

Consultant said:
4) Many people who are stuck in 90s' manually arranging file with folders have problems with modern database centric way of iTunes. (Heck no, the horse carriage is good enough, I don't need a car with all kinds of new fangled control devices and such).

Oh come on now. Even many Mac users hate iTunes.

Consultant said:
5) Complain about the 'i'. Yes you are trying to get a cheap rise.

No I'm really not. It's a serious point. It's just marketing spin.

Consultant said:
6) Removing apps from a Mac is easy and you won't leave registry entries behind that slow down Windows.

No, just files.

Consultant said:
7) Apple runs App Store at break even. The developers and users benefit.

OK, if that's true then very admirable. Except I don't believe that's true for a second. So every cent of the $1.6BN in revenue in the 1st quarter of 2012 was either paid out to developers or 100% reinvested? Hmm...

Consultant said:
8) LOL complaining about Flash. Ignoring why Google's Android tried to embrace flash, failed, and abandoned flash.

My point here was that Apple refused to allow Flash in to AppStore for the simple reason that you can develop apps in Flash and therefore bypass the AppStore. Or do you believe the BS that it was for battery life or because it makes iMacs crash?

Consultant said:
9) A tool is as functional as the brain behind it. Some people just don't have what it takes to work more efficiently.

Yeh, perhaps that's what it is. You're probably right. Thanks.

Consultant said:
Enjoy defragging, managing your file system, and waiting for virus scans on your Windows computer.

So you're all signed up to the myth that Macs don't need defragging then? Interesting.

Managing file system? Great so this could be a little treasure of information for me right now. This could be one of those illusive reasons I've been searching for this whole time.... Please explain why I don't need to "Manage my file system" on the Mac? Can't wait.

The old "Virus" scans argument. Yippee. Now who's happy with coaches and horses. We've moved on too.

So, as a professional Consultant, are you recommending your Mac-using clients not to have a virus checker or their Mac? Sounds like great advice.

I'm trying my best to like the iMac but... I JUST DON'T GET IT

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