I just dont get Apple anymore.....PRO what?

erigas · Sep 13, 2013

Why call it a Macbook pro if they're always sticking gaming cards instead of incorporating a real PRO card...A workstation card. That's what us pros need and use...I can care less about gaming but I earn my living doing 3d, CAD, CAM, simulation.......
For those that claim that there's not enough room or it's gonna get too hot, I say you're not well informed ..http://develop3d.com/blog/2013/08/d...-resolution-display-to-new-mobile-workstation.

Besides a mobile workstation card is nothing more than a mobile Geforce or a Radeon card which is capable of taking advantage of the workstation drivers. If an overclocked GT650m fits and works fine then so does a K1100M or a K2000M. Those cards are better for anybody who does 3d development, video, even graphics designers doing photoshop work....

It does seem however that the majority of "pros" that Apple is targeting are coffee shop freelancers who occasionally use Photoshop for flyers and websites...before you flame me please know that I've been having Apple computers since the era of the quicksilver desktop. I m writing all this from my 2011 15 Macbook pro (in bootcamp lol)...I just wish that Apple finally caters to the evergrowing demographic of 3d pros.....especially with all that 3d printing revolution around the corner!!

....now back to SolidWorks and SpaceClaim...

chabig · Sep 13, 2013

It's just a name. But let me ask, is there something your machine can't do for you? Do you think notebook computers are really aimed at heavy duty 3D and CAD/CAM? Do you think the CAD/CAM market is explosively large and that Apple should target it?

simsaladimbamba · Sep 13, 2013

"Pro" can be seen as short for "Professional", but then again, it is nowhere said, that someone doing professional work needs FirePro or Quadro GPUs, as many professionals earn their professional money not with GPU intensive stuff.

And it is just a name, to differentiate it from the MacBook (when it was still available). Or did the PowerBook have that much GPU power?

Purant · Sep 13, 2013

chabig said:
It's just a name. But let me ask, is there something your machine can't do for you?

That can be said about any laptop.

Do you think notebook computers are really aimed at heavy duty 3D and CAD/CAM?

Some should be, yes.

Do you think the CAD/CAM market is explosively large and that Apple should target it?

I don't know about explosively, but it's not a small market.

The M3800 looks amazing and is priced very aggressively. I like it.

johnnylarue · Sep 13, 2013

chabig said:
It's just a name. But let me ask, is there something your machine can't do for you? Do you think notebook computers are really aimed at heavy duty 3D and CAD/CAM? Do you think the CAD/CAM market is explosively large and that Apple should target it?

Amen.

In a perfect world, the most expensive laptops would also be the most powerful, but in the case of the MBP you're paying a premium for design/build-quality, and a consistent and robust user-interface. The number of "professional" tasks calling for state-of-the-art 3D graphics processors account for a relatively tiny percentage of the portable computer market--which is in itself just a tiny percentage of Apple's overall customer base. Sad but true.

erigas · Sep 13, 2013

chabig said:
It's just a name. But let me ask, is there something your machine can't do for you? Do you think notebook computers are really aimed at heavy duty 3D and CAD/CAM? Do you think the CAD/CAM market is explosively large and that Apple should target it?

Legitimate question.
Everytime I create a compound round in Spaceclaim or a more than a simple assembly in Solidworks I have to wait, get a spinning ball, or the possibility of a crash.....not to mention the horrid framerates when the models get larger...

If there was not a big market then neither Dell or HP(and whole bunch of others) would consider having a whole line of computers dedicated just for that task.

But Im really confused as to why would Apple not put those cards in their laptops(at least as an option), since they are essentially the SAME as the Radeons and Geforces, with the exception of having the capability to take advantage of the different drivers....no additional design changes would be required.....just one more option for us!!

GSPice · Sep 13, 2013

Show me one notebook or tower that completely satisfies all professionals, all of the time.

MyMac1976 · Sep 13, 2013

Apple has never put a Quadro/Fire Pro GPU in nothing new in this thread other than ranting..

Purant · Sep 13, 2013

GSPice said:
Show me one notebook or tower that completely satisfies all professionals, all of the time.

How is this relevant?

The only thing the OP says, is he would like a Macbook Pro that is much beefier than the one currently available. The counter argument till now was that it couldn't be much beefier with the form factor that Apple wants. But apparently Dell has done it.

I would like one too.

tjgonzo · Sep 13, 2013

I will first state that I work in the CAD industry, I use AutoCAD everyday at work, the computer my company has provided is obviously a windows computer and as general as this statement is, I'll say it anyway...Macs are pretty much looked down upon in this industry. I love the Mac and have been using Macs for years all the way back to the blue iMac but, for my CAD work I live in windows. I think Apple has embraced that and focuses its "Professional" market on content creators. For example photographers, music producers, video people...

cjoy · Sep 13, 2013

Purant said:
The counter argument till now was that it couldn't be much beefier with the form factor that Apple wants.

Apple has ported the phone mantra to all their products: Make it slimmer, lighter and extend battery life. Every other metric, while not ignored, has a much lower priority.

The current rMBP series are much less capable mobile workstations than the 2012 models. But hey... they are slimmer, have a funky retina screen (glossy and with less usable screen estate compared to the old highres option) and almost zero extensibility.

Not for me.

Purant · Sep 13, 2013

cjoy said:
Apple has ported the phone mantra to all their products: Make it slimmer, lighter and extend battery life. Every other metric, while not ignored, has a much lower priority.

The current rMBP series are much less capable mobile workstations than the 2012 models. But hey... they are slimmer, have a funky retina screen (glossy and with less usable screen estate compared to the old highres option) and almost zero extensibility.

Not for me.

I get that. What I don't get is why I am hearing silly counter arguments like "why do you need that?" "there is not market for that", when someone expresses that they want a beefier Apple laptop. Why are consumers making excuses for Apple?

I get the strategies, I get why they are doing it and maybe Apple is just not interested in making products that interest me any more. And that makes me and other people with similar interests feel left out. That results in people expressing their disappointment here. The end.

GSPice · Sep 13, 2013

Purant said:
How is this relevant?

The only thing the OP says, is he would like a Macbook Pro that is much beefier than the one currently available. The counter argument till now was that it couldn't be much beefier with the form factor that Apple wants. But apparently Dell has done it.

I would like one too.

It's relevant because at the macro level, people will always have need for what they can't get. If Dell meets the OP's need today, in a few months or years, the same type of OP could be complaining about how Dell has dropped the ball.

Purant · Sep 13, 2013

GSPice said:
It's relevant because at the macro level, people will always have need for what they can't get.

Yeah, so? I still don't see the relevance.

If Dell meets the OP's need today, in a few months or years, the same type of OP could be complaining about how Dell has dropped the ball.

If Dell stops to meet the OP's needs in "a few months or years" would he be wrong to complain that Dell has dropped the ball?

GSPice · Sep 13, 2013

Purant said:
Yeah, so? I still don't see the relevance.

Bummer

Purant said:
If Dell stops to meet the OP's needs in "a few months or years" would he be wrong to complain that Dell has dropped the ball?

Oh this was about right and wrong? Cool.

Purant · Sep 13, 2013

GSPice said:
Bummer
Oh this was about right and wrong? Cool.

I don't think I understand what kind of point you are trying to make.

erigas · Sep 13, 2013

MyMac1976 said:
Apple has never put a Quadro/Fire Pro GPU in nothing new in this thread other than ranting..

A legitimate request I think, to cater to a growing market of pros....I would rather not get a M3800 but If I have to I will.....
Most of my work is on the go since Im involved into scanning parts and then reverse engineering them on the spot sometimes.....so yeah a mobile workstation is a must

leman · Sep 13, 2013

While I understand your point I don't understand what you mean with 'anymore'. They never used workstation cards in their laptops AFAIK. And earlier MBPs usually used underpowered GPUs, at least the 650M is a decent mid-range card.

erigas · Sep 13, 2013

Purant said:
I get that. What I don't get is why I am hearing silly counter arguments like "why do you need that?" "there is not market for that", when someone expresses that they want a beefier Apple laptop. Why are consumers making excuses for Apple?

I get the strategies, I get why they are doing it and maybe Apple is just not interested in making products that interest me any more. And that makes me and other people with similar interests feel left out. That results in people expressing their disappointment here. The end.

Thank you Sir very well put!!
Essentially Apple will (hopefully)cater to the needs of their market.....and since part of that market is the growing field of 3d I dont see why they would leave it unexploited, (especially since the effort to add a workstation option requires NO redesign) ...........unless of course, part of their "web browsing, imovie content creation" user base feels the need to alienate certain professional sectors of the market, and to constantly promote ignorance by never accepting a different view or approach.

UBS28 · Sep 13, 2013

tjgonzo said:
I will first state that I work in the CAD industry, I use AutoCAD everyday at work, the computer my company has provided is obviously a windows computer and as general as this statement is, I'll say it anyway...Macs are pretty much looked down upon in this industry. I love the Mac and have been using Macs for years all the way back to the blue iMac but, for my CAD work I live in windows. I think Apple has embraced that and focuses its "Professional" market on content creators. For example photographers, music producers, video people...

Then why is the headphone output on the MBP so bad?

I need to use an external device just to have descent sound quality.

I hope Apple pays attention to this for the upcoming Haswell MBP or Broadwell.

erigas · Sep 13, 2013

...and by the way...the engineering field, which is what the multitude of CAD applications are used for is HUGE......much more than video or web creation dare I say....
The institutional profit margins of some of those large firms conducting heavy projects, far supersede the those of creative firms.

I would suggest this site: http://develop3d.com/ to anybody having doubts on the strength and appeal of this booming industry!

Aldaris · Sep 13, 2013

tjgonzo said:
I will first state that I work in the CAD industry, I use AutoCAD everyday at work, the computer my company has provided is obviously a windows computer and as general as this statement is, I'll say it anyway...Macs are pretty much looked down upon in this industry. I love the Mac and have been using Macs for years all the way back to the blue iMac but, for my CAD work I live in windows. I think Apple has embraced that and focuses its "Professional" market on content creators. For example photographers, music producers, video people...

... AutoDesk/AutoCAD has been putting some investments into the mac though.

snaky69 · Sep 13, 2013

Aldaris said:
... AutoDesk/AutoCAD has been putting some investments into the mac though.

AutoCAD sucks for anything remotely related to 3D, and Inventor Fusion is horrible to work with, a total disaster.

sonyisawesome · Sep 13, 2013

chabig said:
It's just a name. But let me ask, is there something your machine can't do for you? Do you think notebook computers are really aimed at heavy duty 3D and CAD/CAM? Do you think the CAD/CAM market is explosively large and that Apple should target it?

SO you are paying macbook"pro" for name only?

Laughable and pathetic...

racer1441 · Sep 13, 2013

erigas said:
Why call it a Macbook pro if they're always sticking gaming cards instead of incorporating a real PRO card...A workstation card. That's what us pros need and use...I can care less about gaming but I earn my living doing 3d, CAD, CAM, simulation.......
)

Pro means professional, not the video professional. 99% of professionals are running companies, programming code, balancing budgets, ect...

----------

erigas said:
If there was not a big market then neither Dell or HP(and whole bunch of others) would consider having a whole line of computers dedicated just for that task.
!

Yeah, let's take lessons from failures.

I just dont get Apple anymore.....PRO what?

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