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Old Sep 17, 2013, 09:28 PM   #1
Blue Velvet
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Republicans threaten government shutdown over Obamacare

Never mind that it's law of the land, found constitutional by the Supreme Court and two presidential elections have been fought and won on its general principles:

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House Republican leaders are considering a strategy of risking a government shutdown at the end of this month if Obamacare isn’t defunded.

In the weekly conference meeting Wednesday morning, GOP leaders intend to propose a continuing resolution to keep the federal funded beyond Sept. 30 but strip out funding for Obamacare.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...wn.php?ref=fpa

Last time this happened in 1995/96, according to Wikipedia:


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A 2010 Congressional Research Service report summarized other details of the 1995-1996 government shutdowns, indicating the shutdown impacted all sectors of the economy.

Health and welfare services for military veterans were curtailed; the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention stopped disease surveillance; new clinical research patients were not accepted at the National Institutes of Health; and toxic waste clean-up work at 609 sites was halted.

Other impacts included: the closure of 368 National Park sites resulted in the loss of some seven million visitors; 200,000 applications for passports and 20,000 to 30,000 applications for visas by foreigners went unprocessed each day; U.S. tourism and airline industries incurred millions of dollars in losses; more than 20% of federal contracts, representing $3.7 billion in spending, were affected adversely

For the supposedly fiscally conservative party, all this comes at great cost to the country:


Quote:
Two shutdowns in the mid-1990s cost an estimated $1.4 billion, according to the Congressional Research Service.

http://wqad.com/2013/09/16/what-a-go...-mean-for-you/

It seems Republicans are tearing themselves apart:


Quote:
The delay once again laid bare the deep divisions within the party over fiscal strategy. The split has been exacerbated in recent months by a group of Tea Party-aligned conservatives in the Senate who have encouraged their counterparts in the House to push Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) and his leadership further to the right.

Republicans supportive of leadership warned that the conservative resistance would lead either to a government shutdown that would hurt the party politically or to legislation backed by Democrats with higher spending levels.
“I think there’s a number of people who don’t remember when the government was shut down last time,” Rep. Mike Simpson (R-Idaho) said, referring to the budget battles of 1995 and 1996. “And who carried the burden of that? That was Republicans.”

“Now, I’m not saying they want to shut the government down. They want to defund ObamaCare,” Simpson added. “But if the inevitable result of the position you’re taking ... shuts the government down — then, yeah, you’re responsible.”

Rep. Patrick Tiberi (R-Ohio) said proposals from conservatives that had more teeth and would directly defund the healthcare law stood no chance in the Democratic-controlled Senate.

“Find me 60 votes in the Senate,” Tiberi said. “That’s what I would say. I’m with them philosophically — completely. But show me how you get 60 votes in the Senate. That’s the key.”

http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-mone...unding-measure

I'm not sure why people continually put people into government who don't believe in government and can't govern. Everything they seem to touch turns to ashes.

What do you think about all of this? And how do you think the country will see it?
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Old Sep 17, 2013, 10:41 PM   #2
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I'm not sure why people continually put people into government who don't believe in government and can't govern. Everything they seem to touch turns to ashes.
When the system has been rigged, you don't have to fool a majority. A select minority in the right states will do. Unfortunately, all it takes is money.
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 12:51 AM   #3
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Increasingly, members of the GOP sound like the anonymous US Air Force major who explained the destruction of the Vietnamese town of Bến Tre to Peter Arnett: "It became necessary to destroy the town to save it."

Despite the referendum of a presidential election, a Supreme Court ruling, an analysis by the CBO that the ACA will save $210 billion over the next years and create as many as four million jobs, and that shutting down the government will cost billions and shave 0.2 percentage points off of economic growth for every week the government isn't functioning, the GOP still believes that this is a viable strategy.

That tells us everything about the GOP, at best, they're hoping for a Pyrrhic Victory. Too bad we're the Roman legions they're willing to bend their swords upon.
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 08:55 AM   #4
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I'm really curious as to what the GOP want to replace Obamacare with, it isn't like we can go back to the old system. Of course I wouldn't be totally opposed to a government shutdown since it would mean that the GOP gets most of the blame and hopefully gets voted out of the majority in the house next election. And maybe if we are really lucky they are successful in getting Obamacare to fail and we can get it replaced with a single payer system after they get voted out.
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 09:22 AM   #5
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The right-wing in US politics is becoming more and more bizarre and destructive every day.
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 10:01 AM   #6
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Not gonna happen. Boehner won't get behind this.
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 10:20 AM   #7
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Not gonna happen. Boehner won't get behind this.
The Republicans are pretty much split down the middle. If the radicals don't get what they want, they may try to dump Boehner. The administration obviously thinks that there is a significant possibility, since contingency planning is now underway:

Quote:
The White House told federal agencies on Tuesday to prepare for a government shutdown.

President Obama's budget director Sylvia Matthews Burwell in a memo to agencies said they should set their plans in case Congress fails to pass a funding measure by the end of the month. The government would shut down Oct. 1 without action by Congress.

While there is time for Congress to act, Burwell wrote that "prudent management" requires agencies to prepare for a shutdown.
Only activities that are required by law would be allowed to continue to function during a shutdown, the memo states. A similar memo was released twice in 2011 amid potential shutdowns.

Conservative Republicans in the House and Senate are demanding that any government funding bill include language defunding ObamaCare and have said they will oppose a funding measure that doesn't include the ObamaCare defunding language.

http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-mone...ite-house-says
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 10:41 AM   #8
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Not happening. The republicans need to accept the fact that obamacare will not be defunded. Their attempts at sabotage are sad.
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 10:43 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by jnpy!$4g3cwk View Post
The Republicans are pretty much split down the middle. If the radicals don't get what they want, they may try to dump Boehner. The administration obviously thinks that there is a significant possibility, since contingency planning is now underway:
They won't dump him. He won't turn on obamacare. He goes along with most things obama wants and that's not changing now. Government isn't going to shut down. This seems like propaganda coming from both sides.
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 10:55 AM   #10
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Do it.

If it happens, the GOP will become just like the Whigs.
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 11:24 AM   #11
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Do it.

If it happens, the GOP will become just like the Whigs.
So you want a government shut down just to deliver a blow to a political party?

That's rational...
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 11:31 AM   #12
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So you want a government shut down just to deliver a blow to a political party?

That's rational...
I never claimed to be rational.

And I don't just mean it would hurt them, I mean it would likely be the last thing that would ensure that they don't have a majority anywhere. That way we might be able to get something through Congress eventually.

Because we won't get anything done while we have a party that's sole focus is being obstructionists.
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 11:35 AM   #13
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I would bet the Tea Party wing does force a shutdown.
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 11:38 AM   #14
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I never claimed to be rational.

And I don't just mean it would hurt them, I mean it would likely be the last thing that would ensure that they don't have a majority anywhere. That way we might be able to get something through Congress eventually.

Because we won't get anything done while we have a party that's sole focus is being obstructionists.
You sound exactly like those who wanted Obama's policies to fail just so the Republicans would re-gain the office. You are part of the problem with this divided country.
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 11:46 AM   #15
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You sound exactly like those who wanted Obama's policies to fail just so the Republicans would re-gain the office. You are part of the problem with this divided country.
*rolls eyes*

I'm part of the problem because I see that the party of "let's just disagree with 95% of what Obama says" is a problem to the country? Sure thing.
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 12:37 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by hulugu View Post
Increasingly, members of the GOP sound like the anonymous US Air Force major who explained the destruction of the Vietnamese town of Bến Tre to Peter Arnett: "It became necessary to destroy the town to save it."
Your reference made me think of an old Texas anti-littering commercial.
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 12:38 PM   #17
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*rolls eyes*

I'm part of the problem because I see that the party of "let's just disagree with 95% of what Obama says" is a problem to the country? Sure thing.
No need to be rude.

If you saw the results of the last election, there are a lot of people who disagree with most of what Obama says, hence that party keeping it's numbers from votes.

Either way, your original post shows the larger issue where selfish people want political gain at the expense of the country. Rooting for failure so you can say the other people did it.
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 03:10 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by applesith View Post
No need to be rude.

If you saw the results of the last election, there are a lot of people who disagree with most of what Obama says, hence that party keeping it's numbers from votes.

Either way, your original post shows the larger issue where selfish people want political gain at the expense of the country. Rooting for failure so you can say the other people did it.
Um...I did see the results of the last election. I can't quite remember the source, but I seem to think I heard somewhere where a majority of voters actually preferred Obama and his policies. I'll try to find the source somewhere later.

Anyhoo- Boehner is screwed. If he allows a vote that would require the Democrats to pass, then his Speakership is probably over. If he proceeds with the vote to defund the ACA, then he's going to be blamed for a shutdown.

It's looking more and more like he wants to retain his Speakership.

And that's likely since most house districts are so gerrymandered that they don't reflect the partisan makeup of their states, thus giving the Republicans a huge majority in the House.
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 03:24 PM   #19
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Um...I did see the results of the last election. I can't quite remember the source, but I seem to think I heard somewhere where a majority of voters actually preferred Obama and his policies. I'll try to find the source somewhere later.

Anyhoo- Boehner is screwed. If he allows a vote that would require the Democrats to pass, then his Speakership is probably over. If he proceeds with the vote to defund the ACA, then he's going to be blamed for a shutdown.

It's looking more and more like he wants to retain his Speakership.

And that's likely since most house districts are so gerrymandered that they don't reflect the partisan makeup of their states, thus giving the Republicans a huge majority in the House.
Yes Obama won, so no need for your condescending comment. However, there were still many Americans who did not vote for him. He did not get a landslide. Even though he won, doesn't mean he's right. There are plenty of Americans who do not agree with him.

Back on topic now, as this is not an Obama approval thread.
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 03:24 PM   #20
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No need to be rude.

If you saw the results of the last election, there are a lot of people who disagree with most of what Obama says, hence that party keeping it's numbers from votes.

Either way, your original post shows the larger issue where selfish people want political gain at the expense of the country. Rooting for failure so you can say the other people did it.
Rooting for failure so I can say the other people did it? Except that would be the people doing it. And I wasn't even being rude about it. Please stop being CNN, where everything is equal.
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 03:27 PM   #21
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I almost want the government shutdown to happen because it would most likely end the fights over the debt ceiling that we have had. Although a government shutdown would be very harmful to economy, it's much, much better than breaching the debt ceiling.

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Old Sep 18, 2013, 03:27 PM   #22
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Rooting for failure so I can say the other people did it? Except that would be the people doing it. And I wasn't even being rude about it. Please stop being CNN, where everything is equal.
The *eye roll* was rude. Not sure where you are getting the "CNN...being equal thing" from.
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 03:33 PM   #23
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The *eye roll* was rude. Not sure where you are getting the "CNN...being equal thing" from.
CNN says "the right wings says this, the left wing says this, it's equal" or "Democrats lied during a debate, Republicans lied, it's equal". The false equivalency where you're comparing what I'm saying to the actual want for policies to fail, instead of me saying "stop threatening to do something, do it" is nonsensical.

If they truly believe in something, they should stand up for it.

Is it wrong of me to want the US Government to actually be able to do something? Because right now, just about nothing is being done. And we have the "filibuster congress" to thank for doing it.
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 06:10 PM   #24
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They won't dump him...
Oh no? Boehner received a unanimous 241 votes from his GOP Representatives the first time he was elected to be the Speaker. Upon re-election he only got 220. Now with a full roster you need 218 votes to become Speaker of the House. In the latter case nine Reps did not vote, making the minimum 214. Even still that put him close to the razor.
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 08:36 PM   #25
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Not gonna happen. Boehner won't get behind this.
He's barely relevant these days. With every major issue, he has a smaller role, a smaller voice, and more people in his party are toeing outside the line he sets.

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I almost want the government shutdown to happen because it would most likely end the fights over the debt ceiling that we have had. Although a government shutdown would be very harmful to economy, it's much, much better than breaching the debt ceiling.

P-Worm
Pretty sure a shutdown would occur right at the debt ceiling limit - I mean they've been running accounting tricks for months - that interest alone would have a good chance of breaching the ceiling in a shutdown of any significant length
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