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Old Sep 18, 2013, 03:18 AM   #1
syd430
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Who's ready to play Apple's Screen Lottery Game© once again?

Was hoping that Apple's panel suppliers would start to churn out displays with more consistent colour calibration 3 years after the introduction of the original retina display. But alas, like the iPhone 4/5 and iPad 3/4 launches it looks likely the panel lottery is still very much a reality.

From AnandTech's 5S review:

Quote:
The 5s’ display remains excellent and well calibrated from the factory. In an unusual turn of events, my iPhone 5c sample came with an even better calibrated display than my 5s sample. It's a tradeoff - the 5c panel I had could go way brighter than the 5s panel, but its black levels were also higher. The contrast ratio ended up being very similar between the devices as a result. I've covered the panel lottery in relation to the MacBook Air, but it's good to remember that the same sort of multi-source components exist in mobile as well.
(http://www.anandtech.com/show/7335/t...e-5s-review/12)

While the model AnandTech received seems to be fairly acceptable, it looks like the godawful overly pink and overly yellow screens (or even worse, the ones that are mixture of both) will be in circulation once again. Here's hoping that I won't have to swap it out twice like my iPad 4 which came with a nauseous pink tone (yes, it physically made me feel sick), or my iPhone 5 which 3 times came with a uneven tint (yellow at top, white at the bottom), eventually settling on the third one which was at least acceptable.

And before anyone mentions that 3 letter acronym, I want to point out that I literally just got back from the doctors which ran through a series of tests looking for signs of OCD, with all tests coming back negative.
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 03:20 AM   #2
user-name-here
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syd430 View Post
Who's ready to play Apple's Screen Lottery Game© once again?
Oooh Oooh!

Me! Me!

I am! I am!

p.s. if the reviewer says "the 5s' display remains excellent and well calibrated from the factory" then it's not really a lottery
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 03:35 AM   #3
syd430
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p.s. if the reviewer says "the 5s' display remains excellent and well calibrated from the factory" then it's not really a lottery
So i guess everyone will receive the exact same panel as the one Anandtech received? If you read the quote further, you will see that they clearly imply that the variance between the 5C and 5S screens they received will likely mean that there will be bigger variances out there. I even said that the unit they received seems to be acceptable.
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 03:51 AM   #4
Lucille Carter
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One thing for sure is Apple will not make everyone happy. I would be willing to bet we all pay at least an extra $100+ so the few can trade in one device after another till they get that perfect device.
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 03:52 AM   #5
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It's deeply irritating. I had a few 5's until I got one with an acceptably even screen tone. Mine were yellow at the top. Having said that, I struck gold worth my iPad 4 and got a perfect screen in every way first time around.

Also concerning and more of an iPad issue is the debris that seems to get under the screen but given the screen construct of the 5 devices we probably just have dead pixels to worry about!
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 03:59 AM   #6
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Edit: Ignore this. Sore subject for me that I should not have gotten involved in to begin with. My apologies.

Last edited by user-name-here; Sep 19, 2013 at 01:07 AM.
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 05:08 AM   #7
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Yeah. The OCD types returning phone after phone in pursuit of "perfection" tend to ruin things for everyone, including themselves.

Really wish Apple would figure out a way to shut these types down for good. All they do is drive the cost up for the rest of us good customers in a selfish attempt to satisfy their outlandish personal tastes beyond the norm. Certain things I could understand like the dead pixels, but those that return device after device because the screen looked "too warm" or "too cold" are ridiculous IMO
a. Saying it drives up the cost for good customers is ridiculous - device prices are set by manufacturing/marketing/profit margin costs - not estimating how many people will return devices.

b. It is common for all displays to have issues - warm, cold, yellow, pink, grey, washed out, dead pixels, bleeding etc - there can be many issues, it depends on whether the person using it sees it as an issue. If so, they have every right to return the device and get one they are happy with.

c. what is a good customer?
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 06:51 AM   #8
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a. Saying it drives up the cost for good customers is ridiculous - device prices are set by manufacturing/marketing/profit margin costs - not estimating how many people will return devices.
If they price like the rest of the sophisticated world they include an estimate for defective units (i.e. returns and defects caught during production). It is business 101, if you didn't at least try to predict this you'd be out of business in a hurry. They probably also include extra time for all the support calls they have to deal with about people becoming 'physically' ill because their screen is too pink.
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 07:11 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Lucille Carter View Post
One thing for sure is Apple will not make everyone happy. I would be willing to bet we all pay at least an extra $100+ so the few can trade in one device after another till they get that perfect device.
See step #7: http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost...1&postcount=67

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Originally Posted by Defender2010 View Post
a. Saying it drives up the cost for good customers is ridiculous - device prices are set by manufacturing/marketing/profit margin costs - not estimating how many people will return devices.
So you think warranty exchanges impose no costs to the manufacturer?


Quote:
c. what is a good customer?
A customer who does not abuse the system, thereby creating excessive and unnecessary post-sale costs to the vendor.

REI now limiting returns to one year
Quote:
“What we found is that small group of folks who are probably extending the policy beyond its intent, is getting bigger. And It’s not a sustainable thing long-term if we want to maintain this fantastic policy,” he said. “It’s something we have to put some clarification around.”
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 07:24 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by user-name-here View Post
Yeah. The OCD types returning phone after phone in pursuit of "perfection" tend to ruin things for everyone, including themselves.

Really wish Apple would figure out a way to shut these types down for good. All they do is drive the cost up for the rest of us good customers in a selfish attempt to satisfy their outlandish personal tastes beyond the norm. Certain things I could understand like the dead pixels, but those that return device after device because the screen looked "too warm" or "too cold" are ridiculous IMO
I disagree.

I think every customer has the right to demand a quality product. It's up to Apple to make sure they can consistently meet the level of quality that they promise.

Returned (defective) units do not increase the cost for everybody else. Apple has more than enough margin to absorb any increased costs, and there is likely some rebate from the parts manufacturer in that case (e.g. if there were a lot of iPhones being returned with defective screens, Apple would get new ones from the display OEM for free).

Not that price matters to this argument, but I think customers have an exceptionally strong case to demand a quality product when it's marketed as a premium device with a premium price.

Incorrectly calibrated screens can have a massive impact on the device experience. I have no trouble believing the poster who said it made him feel nauseous. I would not say that he has some "outlandish personal taste".
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 08:08 AM   #11
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I disagree.

I think every customer has the right to demand a quality product. It's up to Apple to make sure they can consistently meet the level of quality that they promise.

Returned (defective) units do not increase the cost for everybody else. Apple has more than enough margin to absorb any increased costs, and there is likely some rebate from the parts manufacturer in that case (e.g. if there were a lot of iPhones being returned with defective screens, Apple would get new ones from the display OEM for free).

Not that price matters to this argument, but I think customers have an exceptionally strong case to demand a quality product when it's marketed as a premium device with a premium price.

Incorrectly calibrated screens can have a massive impact on the device experience. I have no trouble believing the poster who said it made him feel nauseous. I would not say that he has some "outlandish personal taste".
Nauseous? LOL! I agree!

My favorite was when a user opend his iPhone 5 box and said it has a horrible smell. They took it to the store and opened up another phone from the store and the customer said that one was worst!
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 08:32 AM   #12
syd430
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Yeah. The OCD types returning phone after phone in pursuit of "perfection" tend to ruin things for everyone, including themselves.

Really wish Apple would figure out a way to shut these types down for good. All they do is drive the cost up for the rest of us good customers in a selfish attempt to satisfy their outlandish personal tastes beyond the norm. Certain things I could understand like the dead pixels, but those that return device after device because the screen looked "too warm" or "too cold" are ridiculous IMO
No, I think there's really 2 types of people that are returning the less than optimal displays:

1) A small fringe of OCD freaks that need an absolute perfect display (to their eyes), with perfect uniformity throughout the display. I think this is a really small minority of the people complaining.

2) The reasonable, rational people like myself that have had displays that are so poorly calibrated that it's impossible to ignore in day-to-day usage, and is clearly visible without comparing to another device. Yes Apple has to set the bar somewhere to ensure adequate yields, however my opinion is that the bar is set too low. My first 2 ipad 4's were so pink that I felt physically nauseous after using it for more than 30 minutes. My first 2 iPhone 5's had a distinct yellow tint at the top 1/3 screen only. The third one also had the same effect but was much less pronounced and certainly acceptable (and so I continue to use it to this day). Both mine and my girlfriends iphone 4 also had to be swapped a few years ago because of a very strong yellow hue.


I think there's a big difference between acceptable and absolutely perfect (which no display really is). I'd like to see what you would of done if you got the horrendous multi-hued iphone 5's I had to deal with earlier on, I doubt you would have the same stance as you do now.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quincyjh View Post
They probably also include extra time for all the support calls they have to deal with about people becoming 'physically' ill because their screen is too pink.
So what you're saying is that i'm just making it up and I didn't actually feel sick? Must just be in my head right? LOL, please...
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 08:32 AM   #13
deeddawg
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syd430's experience is exactly why I often avoid the first production run of any product.

IMHO it's better to wait a month or so to give them the opportunity to smooth out the ripples and increase consistency of yields following launch. Especially so if something major is a new component such as the screen on the 4 and 5. With the 4S and perhaps the 5s, the screens haven't really changes so there (hopefully) shouldn't be as many instances of poor screens.
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 08:38 AM   #14
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One thing for sure is Apple will not make everyone happy. I would be willing to bet we all pay at least an extra $100+ so the few can trade in one device after another till they get that perfect device.
Agreed. It makes me wonder if it is only Apple products that people get this obsessed over or do they do that with everything they buy.
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 08:46 AM   #15
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This is what happens when parts are farmed out to the bidder with the lowest price. It's mass (let me reiterate) MASS production at it's finest.
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 10:23 AM   #16
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This is what happens when parts are farmed out to the bidder with the lowest price. It's mass (let me reiterate) MASS production at it's finest.
Not really; Apple doesn't have any requirement to go with the lowest bidder. They have to balance the component cost against reliability, otherwise they'd develop a reputation for unreliable products.

Given the scale that Apple produce iPhones in, and the high bar they've set for themselves, we hear about iPhone production defects more. However, there will inevitably be some variation in component performance, and that's true of all manufacturers.

It is close to impossible to produce 10 million or so perfectly identical displays. They're no doubt checked at the factory, but some will slip through the net.

In fact, I remember reports when the iPhone 5 launched that Apple's Quality Control was so strenuous that Foxconn were having difficulty meeting demand. They don't just ship any old junk, but their processes also aren't absolutely perfect.
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 10:52 AM   #17
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So what you're saying is that i'm just making it up and I didn't actually feel sick? Must just be in my head right?
Yes, you are correct. It's all in your head.
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 11:17 AM   #18
syd430
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Yes, you are correct. It's all in your head.
Hmm yes it's impossible that any electronics product can induce slight nausea. There's just no physical way it could ever happen.

Source: you, because you think so.

I guess I'll just take your word for it despite my personal first hand experience. Thank you kind Internet stranger!
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 11:53 AM   #19
deeddawg
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Hmm yes it's impossible that any electronics product can induce slight nausea. There's just no physical way it could ever happen.
Google "Two Girls One Cup" and watch the videos. Report back on the results.

Seriously though, maybe don't be so dismissive. Photosensitive epilepsy is a well documented condition and those susceptible can experience effects such as dizziness and nausea even if they don't have an actual seizure.

For more info see: http://www.epilepsyfoundation.org/ab...tosensitivity/
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 12:08 PM   #20
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Google "Two Girls One Cup" and watch the videos. Report back on the results.

Seriously though, maybe don't be so dismissive. Photosensitive epilepsy is a well documented condition and those susceptible can experience effects such as dizziness and nausea even if they don't have an actual seizure.

For more info see: http://www.epilepsyfoundation.org/ab...tosensitivity/
I actually said that I experienced nausea in my original post. I was replying to that person sarcastically.
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 12:14 PM   #21
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Agreed. It makes me wonder if it is only Apple products that people get this obsessed over or do they do that with everything they buy.
I think apple is the lucky or unlucky company when it comes to this. I've never seen any of my friends nit pick so much on any other companies products.
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 12:22 PM   #22
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I actually said that I experienced nausea in my original post. I was replying to that person sarcastically.
Whoops, sorry, my mistake. I remembered that from the original post, but didn't notice it was you to whom I was replying.
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 09:52 PM   #23
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Certain things I could understand like the dead pixels, but those that return device after device because the screen looked "too warm" or "too cold" are ridiculous IMO
In my humble opinion, Apple could have reduced the number of such obsessive returns due to customers' dissatisfaction with the display tones by simply including a simple display color calibration setting in iOS just like they have done in OS X, but for some reason which my idiotic brain couldn't understand, Apple think having this option is unnecessary at all.
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