Are they ever gonna do a normal file system?

snowboarder · Sep 22, 2013

I'm so sick and tired of iTunes, it's so moronic not to be able to simply copy a file to an iPhone or from an iPhone. The whole syncing thing is so broken and never gets better. Try to sync 2 or 3 devices on one Apple id and 2 or 3 iCloud accounts, what a mess... Incredible why such a powerful device is so limited by the stupid iTunes based system. Simply incredible...
Why can't I create folders and organize files or even photos the way I want?

Eso · Sep 22, 2013

"Who wants a file system?"

-Apple

djtech42 · Sep 22, 2013

If they do a file system, it will have to be abstract. They won't let people just browse the files on the device. It can be done though. The question is, how many people are asking for it? Apple will only attempt it if there is enough demand for it.

Armen · Sep 22, 2013

snowboarder said:
I'm so sick and tired of iTunes, it's so moronic not to be able to simply copy a file to an iPhone or from an iPhone. The whole syncing thing is so broken and never gets better. Try to sync 2 or 3 devices on one Apple id and 2 or 3 iCloud accounts, what a mess... Incredible why such a powerful device is so limited by the stupid iTunes based system. Simply incredible...
Why can't I create folders and organize files or even photos the way I want?

Steve Jobs didn't want users to manage or worry about a file system. Let the app do the saving and managing of files. Try Dropbox. That's what I use for pics and docs and such.

djtech42 · Sep 22, 2013

Armen said:
Steve Jobs didn't want users to manage or worry about a file system. Let the app do the saving and managing of files. Try Dropbox. That's what I use for pics and docs and such.

The problem is that sometimes it can actually make things more complicated than simpler.

robjulo · Sep 23, 2013

No file system makes things far more complicated than having one. A simple file repository (just like photos are already handled) would likely be all,that is needed IMO.

Try Replying to All in a business email and adding a file. Can't do it without first drafting a separate email with whatever sandboxed app contains the file, then copying the file then pasting the file.

ReValveiT · Sep 23, 2013

They really should add drag and drop music. Having to use iTunes sync is awful and always has been. It's so bad that I sync all my music through the Spotify app; a far easier and much more elegant solution.

Just add a 'music' folder in much the same way as there's a 'photos' folder and make millions of lives easier.

MrGimper · Sep 23, 2013

djtech42 said:
If they do a file system, it will have to be abstract. They won't let people just browse the files on the device. It can be done though. The question is, how many people are asking for it? Apple will only attempt it if there is enough demand for it.

Agreed. There just needs some kind of central repository for all your "stuff". Let the user decide if an app can access your "stuff" folder (like apps have to request access to contacts, folders etc).

Having stuff in several apps sandboxes is a waste of space. "Open in..." Just makes a copy of the file if I'm correct

Todd B. · Sep 23, 2013

Eso said:
"Who doesn't care about a file system?"

-The majority of people

Fixed it for you.

hakr100 · Sep 23, 2013

I sold my iPad 3 for two reasons:

1. No usable file system
2. No reasonable way to hook up and use a mouse which, if you write and edit for a living, is something you really have to have.

Used the proceeds to help buy an MBA 13".

Small White Car · Sep 23, 2013

Once again: "There's an app for that."

Those of us who care have Dropbox. Or Files Pro. Or Stash. Or one of the dozens of other apps that let you store and sync files.

There is zero reason for Apple to try and force that on everyone as a default since those of us who need it already have it.

So, no, there will never be a straight iOS file system. What Apple DOES need to do is:

1) Increase the ability of apps to interact with each other beyond what they can do now. The more they do this the less I actually need or care about a file system in the first place.

2) To help out those of us who are using files, they should negotiate with Dropbox the way they work with Facebook. I should be able to log into DP on the OS-level and allow more apps to directly talk to it. (Many apps already do, but it would make things easier if that link-up was being handled by the OS and not each app individually.)

3) iCloud data needs a lot of expansion into sharing and syncing between different accounts and different apps. But I would honestly prefer to see Apple put their efforts into this instead of giving us an iOS file system.

Let's face it: Giving file systems to the general public was the worst mistake of the first home computer revolution. Leaving that out of the second go at it was the main reason iPads succeeded where tons of Windows tablets had failed again and again before.

I'm not saying abolish them (I'm a video editor, they're obviously essential for my work) but I am saying that file systems should be seen as a "Pro" feature that you have to install on purpose, not a default for everyone. This is how iOS treats it, and as long as they keep moving forward on my three ideas I'll be happy.

darngooddesign · Sep 23, 2013

Small White Car said:
Once again: "There's an app for that."

Those of us who care have Dropbox. Or Files Pro. Or Stash. Or one of the dozens of other apps that let you store and sync files.

There is zero reason for Apple to try and force that on everyone as a default since those of us who need it already have it.

So, no, there will never be a straight iOS file system. What Apple DOES need to do is:

1) Increase the ability of apps to interact with each other beyond what they can do now. The more they do this the less I actually need or care about a file system in the first place.

2) To help out those of us who are using files, they should negotiate with Dropbox the way they work with Facebook. I should be able to log into DP on the OS-level and allow more apps to directly talk to it. (Many apps already do, but it would make things easier if that link-up was being handled by the OS and not each app individually.)

3) iCloud data needs a lot of expansion into sharing and syncing between different accounts and different apps. But I would honestly prefer to see Apple put their efforts into this instead of giving us an iOS file system.

Let's face it: Giving file systems to the general public was the worst mistake of the first home computer revolution. Leaving that out of the second go at it was the main reason iPads succeeded where tons of Windows tablets had failed again and again before.

I'm not saying abolish them (I'm a video editor, they're obviously essential for my work) but I am saying that file systems should be seen as a "Pro" feature that you have to install on purpose, not a default for everyone. This is how iOS treats it, and as long as they keep moving forward on my three ideas I'll be happy.

I disagree with partnering with DropBox on such a fundamental level. What if DB is bought or goes away? Apple won't trust a fundamental part of their OS to an outside vendor. I don't even see them replacing a local file system with a cloud file system as the only solution because not everyone is guaranteed internet access all the time. In a world with data caps, will you really want cloud services to handle large files like videos?

For the sake of argument, lets say iOS file system is a duplicate of DropBox. How would having a local version of DropBox be any more complex than using DropBox?

Remember that filesystem does not mean OSX's finder. It can also be a common location where you can open, save and organize files. A folder you can access from any computer. Like dropbox, but local.

Curun · Sep 23, 2013

snowboarder said:
I'm so sick and tired of iTunes, it's so moronic not to be able to simply copy a file to an iPhone or from an iPhone. The whole syncing thing is so broken and never gets better. Try to sync 2 or 3 devices on one Apple id and 2 or 3 iCloud accounts, what a mess... Incredible why such a powerful device is so limited by the stupid iTunes based system. Simply incredible...
Why can't I create folders and organize files or even photos the way I want?

1. Don't use it, I rarely do, and have family members who don't at all.

2. You can.

3. Syncing 3 devices to 3 different iCloud accounts. I can't even fathom a reason that makes sense. Two way sync algorithms would just explode.

4. You can.

PS. there is a file system, by most accounts it likely uses HSFX.

Daveoc64 · Sep 23, 2013

Eso said:
"Who wants a file system?"

-Apple

"Who wants apps?"

-Apple

They don't get things right all of the time.

kappaknight · Sep 23, 2013

Actually, I thought Apple did try to acquired Dropbox at one point. DB really does have the most elegant solution for syncing files. Being its own separate entity is good though since it will allow cross OS'es to work together.

hakr100 said:
I sold my iPad 3 for two reasons:

1. No usable file system
2. No reasonable way to hook up and use a mouse which, if you write and edit for a living, is something you really have to have.

Used the proceeds to help buy an MBA 13".

You sort of answered your own question there. iPads are media consumption devices; despite what Apple tells you. If you spend a majority of your time producing content, a laptop is the way to go.

Nikhil72 · Sep 23, 2013

As far as loading music goes...

Yes you have to use iTunes, but assuming your music is in there, check "Manually manage.." With your iPhone plugged in, and there you go, drag and drop of music to your heart's content. It even works over wifi. Works for movies too. Sure, you use the iTunes interface, but it's the same concept.

As for documents that require 2-way sync, apps that tie into Dropbox work really well.

Small White Car · Sep 23, 2013

darngooddesign said:
I disagree with partnering with DropBox on such a fundamental level.

I already have several apps that log into Dropbox. The ONLY thing I'm asking for is a more streamlined way to manage those logins and authentications. Nothing else. I don't see how that's a huge change. If Dropbox goes away then they just remove that part of the OS.

I do agree it won't happen because it goes against them advocating iCloud and Airdrop.

So I'm not saying it will happen, just that if it did I don't see what the problem would be.

nosnhojm · Sep 23, 2013

I don't want a filesystem.

Docs? I use either Dropbox or iCloud
Photos? I use either photostream or connect via USB to computer and import
Music? iTunes match; and I only download select playlists

I agree that files should be less sandboxed; but a filesystem is not the answer (apps should be more interoperable).

darngooddesign · Sep 23, 2013

Small White Car said:
I already have several apps that log into Dropbox. The ONLY thing I'm asking for is a more streamlined way to manage those logins and authentications. Nothing else. I don't see how that's a huge change. If Dropbox goes away then they just remove that part of the OS.

I do agree it won't happen because it goes against them advocating iCloud and Airdrop.

So I'm not saying it will happen, just that if it did I don't see what the problem would be.

It won't happen because if they wouldn't base such a big part of their OS, a filesystem, on a third party. They will roll their own, which most likely will sync against iCloud which if it matches DB for features I have no problem with. Think about it in regards to Maps. They allowed Google to have control over the data and features of the maps app, and those features lagged behind what was available on Android. Apple had to create its own app before they could get things like turn by turn nav. Ironically that's what forced Google to make a better app for iOS.

There is also a security issue, if DropBox is compromised, something they would have no control over, and it is deeply integrated in the OS, then there will be big issues. The blame will fall on Apple, not Dropbox. If a company's servers are hacked, does the company get blamed or the company hosting those servers? Maybe those in the know will blame the hosting company, but all the bad publicity will fall on Apple.

mikosk · Sep 23, 2013

robjulo said:
No file system makes things far more complicated than having one. A simple file repository (just like photos are already handled) would likely be all,that is needed IMO.

Try Replying to All in a business email and adding a file. Can't do it without first drafting a separate email with whatever sandboxed app contains the file, then copying the file then pasting the file.

Bingo. This is my biggest complaint about my iPhone and iPad. When my client says, send me the contract, I can't just reply to their email and attach the file inline. I have to spoof the email in a 3rd party app.

Apple lets you choose which app to open a file in, why not take the same approach in reverse? That would solve the whole file structure issue where they won't have to provide one. Just ask the user where they want to insert the file from, similar to how photos are handled, but then show the list of 3rd party apps that are available.

snowboarder · Sep 23, 2013

djtech42 said:
If they do a file system, it will have to be abstract. They won't let people just browse the files on the device. It can be done though. The question is, how many people are asking for it? Apple will only attempt it if there is enough demand for it.

As the device becomes more powerful, there will be more demand.
You can store 50GB of photos on your iPhone if you want, try to deal with
that amount of unorganized mess.
Or anything else. iTunes makes me puke every time I open it...

----------

robjulo said:
No file system makes things far more complicated than having one. A simple file repository (just like photos are already handled) would likely be all,that is needed IMO.

Try Replying to All in a business email and adding a file. Can't do it without first drafting a separate email with whatever sandboxed app contains the file, then copying the file then pasting the file.

agree 100%. But you can't just put all the files into one bag, it needs to
be organized and you need to have some control over the way you want it
to be organized...

Spacial · Sep 23, 2013

snowboarder said:
I'm so sick and tired of iTunes, it's so moronic not to be able to simply copy a file to an iPhone or from an iPhone. The whole syncing thing is so broken and never gets better. Try to sync 2 or 3 devices on one Apple id and 2 or 3 iCloud accounts, what a mess... Incredible why such a powerful device is so limited by the stupid iTunes based system. Simply incredible...
Why can't I create folders and organize files or even photos the way I want?

Apple is a dictatorship. Proprietary ways have assured they have a captive user base.

Conversely Android is a breath of fresh air. One is able to do as they wish, creating exactly the right smartphone functionality for their workflow. While the platform had the normal bugs, annoyances et al during its early years, now with the arrival of Android ver 4.x.x it's mature, fast, fun, and very reliable.

An experience that easily equals that of iOS.

Todd B. · Sep 23, 2013

Spacial said:
Apple is a dictatorship. Proprietary ways have assured they have a captive user base.

Conversely Android is a breath of fresh air. One is able to do as they wish, creating exactly the right smartphone functionality for their workflow. While the platform had the normal bugs, annoyances et al during its early years, now with the arrival of Android ver 4.x.x it's mature, fast, fun, and very reliable.

An experience that easily equals that of iOS.

Pretty sure you need to look up the definition of "dictatorship" in the dictionary.

Small White Car · Sep 23, 2013

darngooddesign said:
It won't happen because if they wouldn't base such a big part of their OS, a filesystem, on a third party. They will roll their own, which most likely will sync against iCloud which if it matches DB for features I have no problem with. Think about it in regards to Maps. They allowed Google to have control over the data and features of the maps app, and those features lagged behind what was available on Android. Apple had to create its own app before they could get things like turn by turn nav. Ironically that's what forced Google to make a better app for iOS.

There is also a security issue, if DropBox is compromised, something they would have no control over, and it is deeply integrated in the OS, then there will be big issues. The blame will fall on Apple, not Dropbox. If a company's servers are hacked, does the company get blamed or the company hosting those servers? Maybe those in the know will blame the hosting company, but all the bad publicity will fall on Apple.

I feel like every single one of your arguments applies equally well to Facebook and yet they went ahead and stuck them in there anyway.

darngooddesign · Sep 23, 2013

Small White Car said:
I feel like every single one of your arguments applies equally well to Facebook and yet they went ahead and stuck them in there anyway.

Posting to FB is a nice feature, but hardly a core component, regardless of how over-sharers feel. Handling of files is a far more important to the OS than telling everyone what you had for breakfast.

Regardless I do agree that they should allow better management of the cloud services you use.

Are they ever gonna do a normal file system?

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