Register FAQ / Rules Forum Spy Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   MacRumors Forums > Mac Community > Community Discussion > Politics, Religion, Social Issues

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Oct 1, 2013, 07:05 AM   #1
Blue Velvet
Moderator emeritus
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Launch of Obamacare "like an Apple product"

Kathleen Sebelius, Secretary of Health and Human Services:

Quote:
"About 10 days go, I got the prompt that the operating system had changed and did I want to upgrade to the new operating system and so I did it," Sebelius said. "Then about five days after that, I got the second prompt saying there's a little problem with the system and now we have a new, new upgrade and why don't you upgrade your upgrade."

"And I thought, okay, this is Apple. It has a few more resources than we have to roll out technology. No one is calling on Apple to not sell devices or to get out of the business because the whole thing is a failure. It was just a reminder that we're likely to have some glitches. We will fix them and move on. Hopefully people will give us the same slack that they give Apple."

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/obam...tch-on-day-one

Quote:
...at a briefing with reporters last week, senior administration officials showed off a line graph of how enrollment went in Massachusetts when it implemented its 2006 health care reform law.

The bottom line? Most people signed up at the last minute. Under Obamacare, the last minute would be Dec. 15. That's the last day that people can sign up for coverage and still have it start on Jan. 1, 2014.

So officials don't expect a rush of people to come to the marketplaces on the first day. In fact, administration officials portrayed Oct. 1 as the launch date for a two-and-a-half-month public relations push to get people enrolled.

"What you'll notice starting (Tuesday) is a turning up the volume on our educational efforts since now people finally have something to do," Sebelius said.

That outreach includes a vigorous public outreach campaign, which will range from television ads to on-the-ground efforts by grassroots groups. They'll be competing with conservative groups that have been actively discouraging people from signing up for health coverage under the law.

But by the end of the day Tuesday, what will success for the Obama administration look like? If everything is still up and running, that's a win, HHS officials told reporters Monday.

"Tomorrow is the beginning of a sustained six-month conversation that we are going to continue to ramp up," an HHS official told reporters Monday. "In terms of success, I think at the end of the day tomorrow, our systems are online, and people are able to access them."


My emphasis. Don't all rush at once. You've got until 15 December. As far as the plans go, they're divided into bronze, silver, gold and platinum...

If only you could get bronze iPhones which would be awesome... let alone platinum ones.
Blue Velvet is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1, 2013, 09:19 AM   #2
NickZac
macrumors 68000
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Heavy reliance on technology may not be what is best for poor people...

Healthcare law is inherently complicated...and reliance on high-technology can help explain things and break them down, but at some point will reliance reach a point of over-reliance...??
NickZac is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1, 2013, 10:05 AM   #3
malman89
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Michigan
I wanted to check out the site today for Michigan, which is just run through the Healthcare.gov site. First a delay to sign in - said too many people using it. Minute or two later, get to go through the process to make an account and I got an error at the end. Tried again, same thing.

I was going to wait out the bugs, but I was bored and wanted to see my options. I guess I'll just need to wait.
__________________
Current Machine: Lenovo IdeaPad Z510

Old Machine: Late 2006 Model - 13.3" MacBook, 2 GHz C2D, 4 (3.3) GB RAM, 500 GB 7200rpm HD running OS X 10.6.8
malman89 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1, 2013, 10:21 AM   #4
Blue Velvet
Thread Starter
Moderator emeritus
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by malman89 View Post
I guess I'll just need to wait.

It's not like there's a limited number of products or tickets to sell and they'll run out if people don't sign up straight away. Everyone signed up before December 15 gets coverage starting in January.

While you're waiting, your fellow citizens are always good for a chuckle when asked about whether Obamacare is better than the Affordable Care Act:









Blue Velvet is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1, 2013, 10:26 AM   #5
applesith
macrumors 68000
 
applesith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Except no one is forced to buy an Apple product.
applesith is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1, 2013, 10:28 AM   #6
bradl
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by applesith View Post
Except no one is forced to buy an Apple product.
No-one is forcing you to buy health insurance.

BL.
bradl is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1, 2013, 10:35 AM   #7
Arran
macrumors 68000
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Atlanta, USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by applesith View Post
Except no one is forced to buy an Apple product.
Yeah, but when YOU don't buy yourself an iPhone, WE'RE not compelled to buy one for you.
__________________
When the world zigs, zag
Arran is online now   6 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1, 2013, 10:35 AM   #8
Blue Velvet
Thread Starter
Moderator emeritus
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by applesith View Post
Except no one is forced to buy an Apple product.

The comparison is about the process of a product rollout or launching a new service, not the product itself. Thought that's kinda obvious, to be honest.
Blue Velvet is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1, 2013, 10:35 AM   #9
ThisIsNotMe
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradl View Post
No-one is forcing you to buy health insurance.

BL.
Huh, not only am I being forced to buy health insurance or face a tax....I mean penalty....Oh wait, it was a tax all along but the health insurance I am being forced to by costs DOUBLE what my previous plan cost.
ThisIsNotMe is offline   5 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1, 2013, 10:52 AM   #10
applesith
macrumors 68000
 
applesith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradl View Post
No-one is forcing you to buy health insurance.

BL.
And if you don't - you have to pay a penalty tax. So yes, you are being forced to buy it or pay in via a tax.
applesith is offline   4 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1, 2013, 10:52 AM   #11
Aspasia
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Halfway between the Equator and North Pole
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradl View Post
No-one is forcing you to buy health insurance.
BL.
Yes, but you will be taxed accordingly. And the tax goes up each year as the IRS is watching (and probably the NSA as well).

From the Washington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/.../%3Fp%3D63297/

Quote:
20. What if I don’t want to buy insurance?
First off: Nobody will come knocking down your door, demanding that you purchase a health plan. But if you decide not to purchase coverage, you will have to pay a $95 tax penalty. This would be deducted from your 2015 tax return.
21. How will the government know if I have health insurance?
You’ll have to tell them, via the taxes that you file for 2014. Starting then, the Internal Revenue Service will send out a form where you’ll fill in the type of health plan you purchased (or, if you didn’t purchase coverage, noting that fact).
Aspasia is offline   4 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1, 2013, 11:03 AM   #12
likemyorbs
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NJ
Send a message via AIM to likemyorbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisIsNotMe View Post
it was a tax all along but the health insurance I am being forced to by costs DOUBLE what my previous plan cost.
Funny. My dad's premiums will be cut almost in half and he's in a pretty high income bracket. I call BS on your claim.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by applesith View Post
So yes, you are being forced to buy it or pay in via a tax.
Good, if you don't have health insurance you're a burden to society.
likemyorbs is offline   4 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1, 2013, 11:05 AM   #13
Blue Velvet
Thread Starter
Moderator emeritus
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
I've just read that the exchange site in New York had two million hits in two hours and that's just New York State alone. No wonder things are running a bit flakey or falling over. I'm sure some support people here could put that into perspective.

Clearly, the American people don't want affordable healthcare.
Blue Velvet is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1, 2013, 11:08 AM   #14
JackieInCo
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Colorado
So didn't they vote to delay this for a year?
JackieInCo is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1, 2013, 11:20 AM   #15
ThisIsNotMe
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by likemyorbs View Post
Funny. My dad's premiums will be cut almost in half and he's in a pretty high income bracket. I call BS on your claim.
I was paying $180 per month with Kaiser now I am paying about $360 per month on a plan I was forced onto that I didn't want because my previous plan was illegal under Obamacare.

Its a funny, I just checked the CA exchange and it would cost me $435 per month for their base plan. Even more than I am paying now.
ThisIsNotMe is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1, 2013, 11:25 AM   #16
likemyorbs
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NJ
Send a message via AIM to likemyorbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackieInCo View Post
So didn't they vote to delay this for a year?
No. Where did that myth even come from? I started hearing it a month ago.
likemyorbs is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1, 2013, 11:27 AM   #17
Blue Velvet
Thread Starter
Moderator emeritus
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisIsNotMe View Post
...my previous plan was illegal under Obamacare.

Do you know why exactly? What about it hasn't met the new standards?
Blue Velvet is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1, 2013, 11:47 AM   #18
ThisIsNotMe
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Velvet View Post
Do you know why exactly? What about it hasn't met the new standards?
It had extremely low premiums and extremely high deductibles.

Being young and in good health paying $100 per Doctors visit every other year was fine. Now it is $20. So I save $80 but pay an extra $4,000 in premiums. WOOT!!!

I also get 'free' preventive care - like colonoscopies - something I don't need as well as 'free' mammograms and female birth control....which is funny because I am male.

I had a plan that fit my lifestyle and cost exactly what I wanted to pay. Because of Obamacare, that choice was taken off the table and has cost significantly more.
ThisIsNotMe is offline   4 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1, 2013, 12:04 PM   #19
elistan
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Denver/Boulder, CO
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisIsNotMe View Post
It had extremely low premiums and extremely high deductibles.
I've heard nothing at all about Obamacare making such plans illegal. Do you know which parts of the ACA say so?
elistan is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1, 2013, 12:23 PM   #20
ElectronGuru
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Oregon, USA
Could be that his insurer used to think such an option was necessary to get the young and healthy to sign up. Even his paltry premiums were better than no premiums. So with none less of an option, nearly none is less attractive.
__________________
MBP, IM, MM, IPM, IP, AT
ElectronGuru is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1, 2013, 12:40 PM   #21
bradl
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisIsNotMe View Post
Huh, not only am I being forced to buy health insurance or face a tax....I mean penalty....Oh wait, it was a tax all along but the health insurance I am being forced to by costs DOUBLE what my previous plan cost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by applesith View Post
And if you don't - you have to pay a penalty tax. So yes, you are being forced to buy it or pay in via a tax.
Please show in the law where you are forced to buy health insurance.

You still have a choice: get health insurance, or not. Not getting health insurance comes with a consequence, but no-one is FORCING you to buy it.

Think about it this way.. any employer who pushes their employees to this Marketplace/exchange just put a price tag on your health, and value in their company. They basically just stated that your health, welfare, and value to their company is too big of a price to pay.. They decided that it would be cheaper to pay that annual fine, per person, than to help keep you healthy so you can provide more value and longevity at that company..

.. but they still want you to work for their company to increase their revenue. In short, they lowered your value for them, but want to keep you on board to keep making money for them. Is that really what you want a company to think of you?

As an individual, no-one is forcing you to buy it. You can pay the tax, but if you know the things you could do, you could write off that tax and not have to pay a single portion of it at all. For example: home-based businesses could write this off as an expense for the business.

Whether you want to or not is up to you, but no-one is forcing you to buy it. You have a choice: get health insurance, or not. Again, you have a choice.

BL.
bradl is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1, 2013, 12:53 PM   #22
Konrad9
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arran View Post
Yeah, but when YOU don't buy yourself an iPhone, WE'RE not compelled to buy one for you.
You do know how regular insurance works, right?

And that Reagan signed a law so that every taxpayer pays for uninsured poor people who go to the emergency room, right?

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisIsNotMe View Post
It had extremely low premiums and extremely high deductibles.

Being young and in good health paying $100 per Doctors visit every other year was fine. Now it is $20. So I save $80 but pay an extra $4,000 in premiums. WOOT!!!

I also get 'free' preventive care - like colonoscopies - something I don't need as well as 'free' mammograms and female birth control....which is funny because I am male.

I had a plan that fit my lifestyle and cost exactly what I wanted to pay. Because of Obamacare, that choice was taken off the table and has cost significantly more.
Can you show me some proof these changes wouldn't have happened without Romneycare?
Konrad9 is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1, 2013, 12:54 PM   #23
zioxide
macrumors 603
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Quote:
Originally Posted by applesith View Post
And if you don't - you have to pay a penalty tax. So yes, you are being forced to buy it or pay in via a tax.
As you should be.

If you go to the hospital, you don't get denied treatment when you don't have insurance. But then the people who do have insurance end up having their costs go up to pay for it. That's not right.

Furthermore, there's people who don't have insurance who go to the ER with small problems that would be covered by a general practitioner if they had insurance. This increases costs even more as ER service is clearly much more expensive than a GP.


We should eliminate the for-profit health care companies altogether, simplify the system, and have everyone's healthcare paid for as a portion of taxes instead of a separate bill, but this is better than nothing.
zioxide is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1, 2013, 07:57 PM   #24
appleisking
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: May 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisIsNotMe View Post
I was paying $180 per month with Kaiser now I am paying about $360 per month on a plan I was forced onto that I didn't want because my previous plan was illegal under Obamacare.

Its a funny, I just checked the CA exchange and it would cost me $435 per month for their base plan. Even more than I am paying now.
How could it be "illegal" under obamacare? No, seriously how is that possible?
appleisking is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 1, 2013, 08:46 PM   #25
Technarchy
macrumors 68040
 
Technarchy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradl View Post

You still have a choice: get health insurance, or not. Not getting health insurance comes with a consequence, but no-one is FORCING you to buy it.
At first I took issue with "forced to buy insurance" mandate.

Then came the SCOTUS ruling and Justice Roberts calling it a tax, which feeds into what you wrote above.

I agree that you are not forced to carry insurance, you have accountability for not carrying insurance through the government's ability to tax, which is not the same thing.
__________________
Steve Jobs, January 9th 2007, 10:44am: "We filed for over 200 patents for all the inventions in iPhone and we intend to protect them."
Technarchy is offline   0 Reply With Quote


Reply
MacRumors Forums > Mac Community > Community Discussion > Politics, Religion, Social Issues

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Would you end "Obamacare" if you had the power? PracticalMac Politics, Religion, Social Issues 113 Sep 27, 2013 04:21 PM
Top Dems "Obamacare Is Headed For 'Huge Train Wreck'" squeeks Politics, Religion, Social Issues 94 Apr 23, 2013 11:05 AM
iPad Mini: "Apple to Launch iPad Mini With Full-HD LCD" caubeck iPad 7 Feb 25, 2013 12:01 PM
Selling iPhone 4: "serial number for a product that has been replaced" petethepanda iPhone 15 Dec 15, 2012 04:27 PM
"Apple May Have To Launch iPhone 6 Sooner Than Expected" Ishimaru iPhone 12 Oct 3, 2012 04:49 PM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:14 AM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC