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Old Oct 7, 2013, 12:55 AM   #1
iMikeT
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Libertarian that loves the Affordable Care Act

Title says it all and link to Think Progress article.


Think Progress - How A Rand Paul Republican From Alabama Learned To Love Obamacare


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My personal commentary about this guy relates to something that I learned from a political science class I took. That is, much of what we know about general public policy and politics is how these things affect us on an individual level. In this case, it took Joshua Pittman a life threatening condition for him to realize the benefits of a policy that ideally benefits society as a whole. I think it is a great start for him to start seeing the bigger picture in regards to the Affordable Care Act.
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Old Oct 7, 2013, 12:36 PM   #2
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Before Obama became president and presented a national health care plan, Republicans all over where promoting the same idea (example: RomneyCare)

I simply see it mainly as jealousy by Republicans that a Democrat did what they could not.
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Old Oct 7, 2013, 03:59 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by PracticalMac View Post
Before Obama became president and presented a national health care plan, Republicans all over where promoting the same idea (example: RomneyCare)

I simply see it mainly as jealousy by Republicans that a Democrat did what they could not.
And at the end of the day we are still beholden to healthcare as an industry instead of healthcare as a human right. Both parties clearly have no interest in the welfare of the American people (or any others for that matter).
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Old Oct 7, 2013, 08:45 PM   #4
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And at the end of the day we are still beholden to healthcare as an industry instead of healthcare as a human right. Both parties clearly have no interest in the welfare of the American people (or any others for that matter).
At least the industry no longer has the power of God.
Just a minor deity.
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Old Oct 8, 2013, 02:11 AM   #5
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At least the industry no longer has the power of God.
Just a minor deity.
You anesthesiologist today will be Thor. Hold your head steady now, he is really good with Mjöllnir ...
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Old Oct 8, 2013, 07:15 AM   #6
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At least the industry no longer has the power of God.
Just a minor deity.
The health care industry Will Be more powerful and corrupted than ever. With the government backstopping their business the sky Is the limit,
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Old Oct 9, 2013, 12:05 AM   #7
iMikeT
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The health care industry Will Be more powerful and corrupted than ever. With the government backstopping their business the sky Is the limit,

The government practically runs health care where you live in Canada doesn't it, eh?
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Old Oct 9, 2013, 12:42 PM   #8
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Before Obama became president and presented a national health care plan, Republicans all over where promoting the same idea (example: RomneyCare)

I simply see it mainly as jealousy by Republicans that a Democrat did what they could not.
What Republicans supported RomneyCare? I assume there are some, but if memory serves me, and it doesn't always, that was one of the Negatives about Romney for the GOP. I know it was for me.
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Old Oct 9, 2013, 01:07 PM   #9
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What Republicans supported RomneyCare? I assume there are some, but if memory serves me, and it doesn't always, that was one of the Negatives about Romney for the GOP. I know it was for me.
Romney Care is just one of many example where Republicans supperted health care advancments.

Look at Medicare part B, the "not so affordable drug act". You know who pushed and got that one.

Every Republican President wanted a national HC system, its just often forgotten.
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Old Oct 9, 2013, 09:22 PM   #10
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Romney Care is just one of many example where Republicans supperted health care advancments.

Look at Medicare part B, the "not so affordable drug act". You know who pushed and got that one.

Every Republican President wanted a national HC system, its just often forgotten.
I am not saying that isn't right, but never heard of Republicans supporting a national health care system. Do you have a link by chance? Also I would think many on this board would have supported a Republican if that was the case.
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Old Oct 9, 2013, 09:35 PM   #11
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I am not saying that isn't right, but never heard of Republicans supporting a national health care system. Do you have a link by chance? Also I would think many on this board would have supported a Republican if that was the case.
At least from Nixon on, it's something Republicans and Democrats both have used as a talking point during elections, though neither have made any moves towards making it a reality until recently.
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Old Oct 9, 2013, 09:40 PM   #12
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At least from Nixon on, it's something Republicans and Democrats both have used as a talking point during elections, though neither have made any moves towards making it a reality until recently.
But talking points during a Presidential election are worthless. Every candidate also says they want to promote world peace. And then 4 weeks after they are elected POTUS, they find reason to embroil the USA in another foreign military adventure.
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Old Oct 9, 2013, 10:35 PM   #13
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At least from Nixon on, it's something Republicans and Democrats both have used as a talking point during elections, though neither have made any moves towards making it a reality until recently.
Well, Clinton tried and was badly mauled.

Bush 2 did the Medicaid part D, not full HC, but an effort to make drugs more affordable.
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Old Oct 10, 2013, 08:08 AM   #14
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I am not saying that isn't right, but never heard of Republicans supporting a national health care system. Do you have a link by chance? Also I would think many on this board would have supported a Republican if that was the case.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...arack-obama-s/
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Old Oct 10, 2013, 09:39 AM   #15
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Sorry rdowns. Didn't even click the link. Anything from Politicrap is like me sending you a link from Fox News.
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Old Oct 10, 2013, 09:56 AM   #16
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Sorry rdowns. Didn't even click the link. Anything from Politicrap is like me sending you a link from Fox News.

Yeah, just like FOX News, links to external sources and all.
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Old Oct 10, 2013, 12:50 PM   #17
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Yeah, just like FOX News, links to external sources and all.
Yea all those shady Kaiser and Government websites!
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Old Oct 10, 2013, 05:30 PM   #18
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The problem with the ACA is that it tries to shoehorn healthcare into a private for profit system with the government picking up the " gap " and the IRS as its watchdog. Really what could go wrong with that?

Hopefully it will lead to a single payer system in the future. Big pharma and the insurance companies are going to fight that very hard though. They do not want their ability to profit to be reduced or their industry to be fundamentally changed.
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Old Oct 14, 2013, 09:06 AM   #19
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And at the end of the day we are still beholden to healthcare as an industry instead of healthcare as a human right.
Defining things which have to be produced by others as "human rights" is very dangerous. Ultimately such definitions require one to enslave one group of people in order to provide services for another.

For example, if we declare that everyone has a "human right" to education "for free", then in the same stroke we are requiring that some subset of people provide education for some other subset of people. As education is not costless and requires productive output, such a system will necessarily require seizing productivity from one person in order to transfer it to another (the recipient of the "free education").

Generally, civilized society regards forcibly seizing the productivity of one person in order to transfer it to another person as unethcial and amoral, unless the person from whom the productivity is being expropriated is being forced to repay the recipient for some prior aggression against the person or property of the recipient.

For this reason, things we consider "human rights" should be restricted to negative rights, which basically boil down the right to be left alone to pursue your own happiness however you see fit as long as you don't aggress against others.

>
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Old Oct 14, 2013, 09:27 AM   #20
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Defining things which have to be produced by others as "human rights" is very dangerous. Ultimately such definitions require one to enslave one group of people in order to provide services for another.

For example, if we declare that everyone has a "human right" to education "for free", then in the same stroke we are requiring that some subset of people provide education for some other subset of people. As education is not costless and requires productive output, such a system will necessarily require seizing productivity from one person in order to transfer it to another (the recipient of the "free education").

Generally, civilized society regards forcibly seizing the productivity of one person in order to transfer it to another person as unethcial and amoral, unless the person from whom the productivity is being expropriated is being forced to repay the recipient for some prior aggression against the person or property of the recipient.

For this reason, things we consider "human rights" should be restricted to negative rights, which basically boil down the right to be left alone to pursue your own happiness however you see fit as long as you don't aggress against others.

>
Even if everything you say is true, I don't see you doing anything about it except droning on and on. You are just as much a worker drone for the current system as the rest of us. If you really wanted to change the system, you would get off you behind and do something about it. You would do far more to fight this enslavement than just posting on a PRSI site.

You are very good at giving other advice but what do you really do against all this so called coersion. You pay your tax just like the rest of us.
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