Go Back   MacRumors Forums > Apple Hardware > Desktops > iMac

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Oct 25, 2013, 06:09 PM   #1
Crunch
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Hollywood Hills, California
New (Late-2013) iMac doesn't support Thunderbolt 2! WHY!? Possible answers.

So I got my BTO order of the high-end 27" iMac. The only change from the $1,999 model I made should also be one that you make, or rather one like it: Get an SSD or Fusion Drive. I know, you just want to pick up the darn thing from the Apple Store down the street, but believe me, to say that "it's worth it!" would be a gross understatement. Shipping, at least in my case, was from within the U.S., and took only a few days. You can do it! ;-)

At any rate, the screen is just awesome, which is always a concern with brand new monitors, all-in-ones, screens of any kind, really. And almost everything else is there as well: 802.11ac WiFi, PCIe SSD instead of the "old" SATA III (6Gbps), which is another awesome and highly meaningful upgrade, but then... what? No Thunderbolt 2?

No Thunderbolt 2??? Promise Technology has already announced, amongst other TB2 devices, a brand new Pegasus2 external RAID storage arrays, including an all-new R8 with 8 drive bays, all with TB2 support!

There's a second and perhaps more significant reason: I am dying to get a 4K display and they are coming closer to my price range all the time. But you need Thunderbolt 2 support to run 4K displays.

I guess I get it. Apple thinks desktops don't move a lot and that you already have a big high-res. 1440p display as part of the iMac. It's short-sighted in my humblest of opinions, and despite the fact that we know how Apple loves large profit margins, can it really be cost? Is it really going to cost even a cent more to buy a TB2 controller vs. the older TB1 version, especially since Apple worked with Intel on the technology itself? I doubt it.

Maybe there's a different answer. Maybe these are the "set-top boxes" that had been shipped in August (or was it July?), which were thought to be new Apple TV's at the time, and perhaps Thunderbolt 2 wasn't yet available?

Whatever the reason, it is highly disappointing. What do you guys think?
__________________
(Late 2013) 27" iMac w/ quad-core Intel Core i5-4670 3.4GHz / 3.8GHz SC Turbo | NVIDIA GTX 775M w/ 2GB GDDR5 | 24GB DDR3-1600MHz RAM | OS X 10.10 DP7 | 256GB XP941 PCIe x2 SSD
Crunch is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 25, 2013, 06:19 PM   #2
NewbieCanada
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Honestly, even if you're filling those storage arrays with SSD drives, Thunderbolt is MORE than up to the job.

It would have been nice if TB2 had been included, but it's really not likely going to change anything.

And I guess they correctly assumed most people wanting to drive a 4K monitor wouldn't by an iMac. But the main reason is T2 wasn't available yet.
__________________
nMP 6-core, D500, 32 GB, 1 TB rMBP 13" '13 2.4 gHz, 256 GB, 8GB iPhone 6 Plus 128GB Silver iPhone 5 64GB iPad Air 128
NewbieCanada is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 25, 2013, 07:49 PM   #3
Crunch
Thread Starter
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Hollywood Hills, California
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieCanada View Post
Honestly, even if you're filling those storage arrays with SSD drives, Thunderbolt is MORE than up to the job.

It would have been nice if TB2 had been included, but it's really not likely going to change anything.

And I guess they correctly assumed most people wanting to drive a 4K monitor wouldn't by an iMac. But the main reason is T2 wasn't available yet.
So it wasn't available in September, but less than a month later, Thunderbolt 2 was available? I don't think so.

And what happened to those people who like multiple monitor setups? Some will want them all at the same resolution, yes, especially gamers. However, some would LOVE to have a 4K monitor sitting next to their iMac.
__________________
(Late 2013) 27" iMac w/ quad-core Intel Core i5-4670 3.4GHz / 3.8GHz SC Turbo | NVIDIA GTX 775M w/ 2GB GDDR5 | 24GB DDR3-1600MHz RAM | OS X 10.10 DP7 | 256GB XP941 PCIe x2 SSD
Crunch is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 25, 2013, 08:34 PM   #4
NewbieCanada
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
So it wasn't available in September, but less than a month later, Thunderbolt 2 was available? I don't think so.

And what happened to those people who like multiple monitor setups? Some will want them all at the same resolution, yes, especially gamers. However, some would LOVE to have a 4K monitor sitting next to their iMac.
Everything that has ever been manufactured didn't exist in a ready to manufacture state at one point and then became ready. Following your "logic" we could then say if it existed in September it must have existed in August. And if it existed in August it existed in Juiy. We can follow your "logic" all the way back to the stone age.

Obviously it was in the late development stages, but that doesn't mean it was ready for manufacture. Whether you think so or not. Just like they had Mac Pros for people to test and work with (seen in the video at last week's event) but they won't be ready for sale for over a month from now.

This article from MacWorld shows that in September even a peripheral maker didn't have a working sample! http://www.macworld.com/article/2048...ripherals.html

Look, everyone who bought an iMac this fall knew two things:

1. It didn't have Thunderbolt 2
2. Thunderbolt 2 was coming.

They made an informed choice.
__________________
nMP 6-core, D500, 32 GB, 1 TB rMBP 13" '13 2.4 gHz, 256 GB, 8GB iPhone 6 Plus 128GB Silver iPhone 5 64GB iPad Air 128
NewbieCanada is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 26, 2013, 01:20 AM   #5
CoolHotCold
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
the iMac (just like the MacBook Air) is a consumer device.

Notice how the pro devices get TB2, that's why.
CoolHotCold is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 26, 2013, 01:54 AM   #6
mrmarts
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Melbourne Australia
Honestly I have the money for 4k gear but I have no intentions going 4k until ultra HD content becomes avaiable on the iTunes store and physical disk. Not even the PS4 is computable with 4k in terms of gaming I see this as an advantage to hang to on to Sony HX 850 Full HD TV.

Back to the iMac when i get my customised iMac the only thing that will make me want to change is a retina display otherwise an update to the thunderbolt port will be not enough to warrant a change. I do not like dual monitor setups as they will clutter my desk.

More importantly 4K is still in its infancy chances are you will get a ultra hd monitor and they will up the resolution in the latter and market it like the jump from HD to Full HD and do not forget 8K is not far on its trail unless your graphic designer the extra resolution is not enough to bring over without the content to go with.
__________________
Late 2013 13" MacBook Pro Retina | Time Capsule 2TB | iPhone 6 Plus 128GB Black | Apple TV 3 Living Room | iMac 27" Late 2013: i7 3.5 GHz, 16GB Ram, 3TB Fusion, 780M, |Ipad Air 128Gb Space Grey

Last edited by mrmarts; Oct 26, 2013 at 02:00 AM.
mrmarts is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 26, 2013, 10:04 AM   #7
jordanm86
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Don't forget, the iMac is essentially a power laptop smushed into a desktop form factor.

Would the mobile graphics card in the iMac be capable of delivering decent performance with a 4K display?
jordanm86 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 26, 2013, 10:28 AM   #8
wmy5
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: upstate NY
Quote:
Originally Posted by jordanm86 View Post
Don't forget, the iMac is essentially a power laptop smushed into a desktop form factor.

Would the mobile graphics card in the iMac be capable of delivering decent performance with a 4K display?
If MacBook Pro can do so, why iMac can't?
wmy5 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 26, 2013, 12:12 PM   #9
jordanm86
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmy5 View Post
If MacBook Pro can do so, why iMac can't?
I wasn't aware that it does, that's why I asked. But surely, running a 4K display would seriously push the processor and graphics so that if you then start to run anything that requires a bit of 'oomph', it wouldn't be running as smoothly as a smaller resolution (less FPS). I thought this is the reason why some games in the app store are locked down in resolution?
jordanm86 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 26, 2013, 12:23 PM   #10
ioannis2005gr
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Europe
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmy5 View Post
If MacBook Pro can do so, why iMac can't?
Don't worry...
it will happen silently in early 2014 along with USB3.1 (x2 speed).

PS1: If you've already got an iMac (2013), you won't get this hardware update.

PS2: How much important is TB2 for you? Would you prefer USB3.1, too?

My suggestion: Next time, unless you need an iMac desperately, don't hurry to buy it in the first couple of months...just wait and see what is coming around you and then decide when it's the right time for you (less risk).
ioannis2005gr is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 26, 2013, 01:06 PM   #11
ekiro
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
So I got my BTO order of the high-end 27" iMac. The only change from the $1,999 model I made should also be one that you make, or rather one like it: Get an SSD or Fusion Drive. I know, you just want to pick up the darn thing from the Apple Store down the street, but believe me, to say that "it's worth it!" would be a gross understatement. Shipping, at least in my case, was from within the U.S., and took only a few days. You can do it! ;-)

At any rate, the screen is just awesome, which is always a concern with brand new monitors, all-in-ones, screens of any kind, really. And almost everything else is there as well: 802.11ac WiFi, PCIe SSD instead of the "old" SATA III (6Gbps), which is another awesome and highly meaningful upgrade, but then... what? No Thunderbolt 2?

No Thunderbolt 2??? Promise Technology has already announced, amongst other TB2 devices, a brand new Pegasus2 external RAID storage arrays, including an all-new R8 with 8 drive bays, all with TB2 support!

There's a second and perhaps more significant reason: I am dying to get a 4K display and they are coming closer to my price range all the time. But you need Thunderbolt 2 support to run 4K displays.

I guess I get it. Apple thinks desktops don't move a lot and that you already have a big high-res. 1440p display as part of the iMac. It's short-sighted in my humblest of opinions, and despite the fact that we know how Apple loves large profit margins, can it really be cost? Is it really going to cost even a cent more to buy a TB2 controller vs. the older TB1 version, especially since Apple worked with Intel on the technology itself? I doubt it.

Maybe there's a different answer. Maybe these are the "set-top boxes" that had been shipped in August (or was it July?), which were thought to be new Apple TV's at the time, and perhaps Thunderbolt 2 wasn't yet available?

Whatever the reason, it is highly disappointing. What do you guys think?
Damn that can't be good. What a great way for Apple to ruin their 'forward thinking' they babbled on about with their new iPhone 5S.

I say return it unless you desperately need a iMac/computer. I have the 2012 version, maxed out, and plan on selling it a month or two before the 2014 model is released.
ekiro is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 26, 2013, 01:27 PM   #12
topmounter
macrumors 68000
 
topmounter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: FEMA Region VIII
Wouldn't you still be able to drive a 4k display via the dual-link DVI adapter?
__________________
iLoveDrones.com
topmounter is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 26, 2013, 02:07 PM   #13
AaronM5670
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: London, England
I'd rather use USB 3 to be honest; more compatible accessories and at lower prices than Thunderbolt.
__________________
Late '13 iMac 27" 3.5GHz i7/32GB/1TB Fusion/GTX 775M 2GB, iPod Nano 8GB 3rd Gen, iPhone 5 16GB, iPad 2 32GB 3G, Apple TV 3, '98 PowerMac G3 233MHz Beige. Nexus 5 & PS1-4. Stereotypical Apple customer.
AaronM5670 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 26, 2013, 02:08 PM   #14
DisMyMac
macrumors 65816
 
DisMyMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Someone here said that TB 1 can do 4K if it's "Redwood" something or other.
DisMyMac is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 26, 2013, 04:24 PM   #15
theluggage
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
No Thunderbolt 2??? Promise Technology has already announced, amongst other TB2 devices, a brand new Pegasus2 external RAID storage arrays, including an all-new R8 with 8 drive bays, all with TB2 support!
Announced != available. They're talking about November. Not sure what Promise are like at keeping to such dates, but it would hardly be precedent-breaking news if they were delayed (*cough* Caldigit and Sonnet TB hubs).

Initially, Intel were saying that the TB2 chips would only be available in limited quantities this year and not ramping up until 2014 - the surprise is that the new rMBPs have them, not that the iMac doesn't.
theluggage is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 26, 2013, 05:17 PM   #16
ioannis2005gr
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Europe
Quote:
Originally Posted by topmounter View Post
Wouldn't you still be able to drive a 4k display via the dual-link DVI adapter?
Keep in mind, rMBP TB2 via DP 1.2 supports 4k res.

via HDMI? only if it supports HDMI 1.4 (new iMacs? I don't know).

At 60Hz? Possibly not yet.....but only after a software update...
ioannis2005gr is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 27, 2013, 02:26 AM   #17
Icaras
macrumors 601
 
Icaras's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: California, United States
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolHotCold View Post
the iMac (just like the MacBook Air) is a consumer device.

Notice how the pro devices get TB2, that's why.
Pretty much agree with this, however it would have been nice for the 27" models to get it at least.
Icaras is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 27, 2013, 05:01 AM   #18
NeoCracer
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolHotCold View Post
the iMac (just like the MacBook Air) is a consumer device.

Notice how the pro devices get TB2, that's why.
The iMac performs better than the MacBook Pro's. I hardly call the 13" rMBP a 'Pro' device.

The iMac still has better CPU, GPU, more RAM options (up to 32GB, while the rMBP is maxed at 16GB)

The maxed out iMac is more Pro than the maxed out MacBook Pro.
The iMac can be a great consumer device at standard configuration, but it can be a real Pro device once you customize it.

Maybe I won't even use thunderbolt 2, but somehow it's strange that the MBP's are getting it and the new iMacs were left out.
NeoCracer is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 27, 2013, 07:10 AM   #19
ioannis2005gr
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Europe
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoCracer View Post
Maybe I won't even use thunderbolt 2, but somehow it's strange that the MBP's are getting it and the new iMacs were left out.
TB2 uses DP1.2...you will need it sooner or later!

4K technology is coming....

Besides, HDMI 1.4 supports 4K res. but I am not sure if new iMacs are built with this technology.

Thus, TB2 is needed in 2014 along with USB3.1 (X2 speed). APPLE will update silently new iMacs in early 2014 to support TB2 and USB3.1...

PS: My suggestion, don't hurry to buy iMacs just next day after their announcement! If you wait for a couple of months, you will make a better decision...
ioannis2005gr is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 27, 2013, 07:23 AM   #20
nexusrule
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
They need to differentiate the lines some way. Thunderbolt 2 for pro, Thunderbolt for the consumer. iMac and Air = Thunderbolt, Mac Pro and Macbook Pro = Thunderbolt 2. It's how Apple always rolled.
nexusrule is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 27, 2013, 07:34 AM   #21
Bear
macrumors G3
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sol III - Terra
Quote:
Originally Posted by nexusrule View Post
They need to differentiate the lines some way. Thunderbolt 2 for pro, Thunderbolt for the consumer. iMac and Air = Thunderbolt, Mac Pro and Macbook Pro = Thunderbolt 2. It's how Apple always rolled.
This for now. Also, they may not have bothered with Thunderbolt 2 drivers for Mountain Lion which is what the 2013 iMac launched with.
__________________
-----Bear
Bear is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 27, 2013, 07:58 AM   #22
MacDarcy
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
When the imac gets a retina screen, perhaps they'll update it. Also keep in mind that the 55" and 65" 4k Apple TVs are rumored to be coming late next year.

2014 should be a fun year. ;-)
MacDarcy is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Mar 6, 2014, 11:01 PM   #23
PatriotInvasion
macrumors 65816
 
PatriotInvasion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Boston, MA
If the iMac had TB2 right now, most people would do nothing with it. I agree that it was a little odd that the rMBP's got it a month later, but those smaller screen notebooks are more needy for faster external drives and high res 4K displays to equal the Retina quality of their native screens.

I'm sure the next iMac spec bump will include TB2, but unless you're dying to drop another $3,500 on a 60hz 4K display after dropping $2,000 on the iMac itself, TB vs TB2 means very little.

The real game changer will be when the iMac goes 4K or god willing 5120x2880 (not holding my breath, don't worry) :-)
__________________
27-inch iMac [Late 2013, 3.2GHz quad-core Intel Core i5, 8GB of memory, 256GB of flash storage], iPad Air [16GB, silver], iPhone 6 Plus [64GB, space gray], Time Capsule [1TB, A1355, 3rd Generation]
PatriotInvasion is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Apr 1, 2014, 08:46 PM   #24
Crunch
Thread Starter
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Hollywood Hills, California
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatriotInvasion View Post
If the iMac had TB2 right now, most people would do nothing with it. I agree that it was a little odd that the rMBP's got it a month later, but those smaller screen notebooks are more needy for faster external drives and high res 4K displays to equal the Retina quality of their native screens.

I'm sure the next iMac spec bump will include TB2, but unless you're dying to drop another $3,500 on a 60hz 4K display after dropping $2,000 on the iMac itself, TB vs TB2 means very little.

The real game changer will be when the iMac goes 4K or god willing 5120x2880 (not holding my breath, don't worry) :-)
I'm with you on that last one! I'm SO ready for my first 4K monitor, but refuse to go with a TN panel.

I think the Thunderbolt 2 spec was simply not available at the time the latest iMacs came out, so whatever 2014 iMac model we will see with the latest refreshed Haswell processors inside will likely also include Thunderbolt 2.
__________________
(Late 2013) 27" iMac w/ quad-core Intel Core i5-4670 3.4GHz / 3.8GHz SC Turbo | NVIDIA GTX 775M w/ 2GB GDDR5 | 24GB DDR3-1600MHz RAM | OS X 10.10 DP7 | 256GB XP941 PCIe x2 SSD
Crunch is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Apr 2, 2014, 12:23 PM   #25
n-evo
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
I think the Thunderbolt 2 spec was simply not available at the time the latest iMacs came out, so whatever 2014 iMac model we will see with the latest refreshed Haswell processors inside will likely also include Thunderbolt 2.
So what you're saying is Apple managed to develop, test and manufacture an updated MacBook Pro somewhere in between the month the iMac was released and Thunderbolt 2 suddenly became available. Of course they did.
n-evo is offline   0 Reply With Quote

Reply
MacRumors Forums > Apple Hardware > Desktops > iMac

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
4K support for late 2013 retina MacBook Pros jonisign MacBook Pro 10 Mar 29, 2014 02:37 AM
Do Late 2013 iMac's support 4K external monitors? MartinAppleGuy iMac 1 Mar 28, 2014 10:33 PM
Does Late 2013 27" iMac Support TARGET DISPLAY MODE? kelf iMac 8 Dec 16, 2013 12:26 PM
Late 2013 13" rMPB Thunderbolt Issue profanum MacBook Pro 2 Oct 31, 2013 12:56 PM
Does late (2013) iMac support power nap? 212rikanmofo iMac 2 Oct 5, 2013 02:47 AM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:02 AM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC