nMPRO for Gaming

You mention that your primary concerns with your iMac purchase was with the lack of "future proofing" and user-upgradablity. How is the new Mac Pro in your eyes more upgradeable or future proof than the iMac that you just returned?

I don't think you can CF the two D700s since there is no hardware bridge. Not sure about software bridging, but i doubt they would invest time into something that most users won't use.

If you game, it'll only utilize a single GFX card for the time being. Maybe later when the industry moves forward with dual GFX acceleration without SLI/CF.

I find the Current i7 iMac just as "upgradeable" as the New mac pro; Ram, SSD, HDD.

Now it hasn't been confirmed, but I do believe the CPU and possibly GPU in the NMP might be upgradeable, but mostly the CPU. Prices won't be cheap, but being a lawyer, it shouldn't be an issue

RcktMan77 said:

How is the new Mac Pro in your eyes more upgradeable or future proof than the iMac that you just returned?

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nMP is much easier to open the case. CPU looks like it is socketed. GPUs look to be on boards that are removable. More external ports. Can update the display any time and supports more connected displays.

Some of this we don't know for sure yet. Will Apple ever release updated GPU boards? Maybe, maybe not.

RodPinto said:

Also, will the 2 d700 work through crossfire when bootcamping windows?

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It should yes, but not in OS X.

I think the stock D300's should work for gaming pretty well...D500's will for sure. Not their real purpose but they have a ton of muscle none the less! I can't say the GTX 780M is a sloutch however. If It were me I would do exactly what your doing and wait for the nMP, I prefer 6-cores to 4-cores and no built in display I think 6-cores will be overkill for gaming though...the 4-core model will dust pretty much all 4-core i7's....6-cores would be beneficial for graphics and video guys.

As a MacPro 1,1 owner, I can guarantee you that although the graphics cards appear to be installed on daughter cards, you will not have any viable graphics card upgrade paths as the cards themselves interface with the heat sink and Apple has a very bad track record for providing these sorts of upgrades to end-users. Vendors won't provide you any relief either. The RAM and SSD options on the iMac were just as upgradeable as on the nMacPro. I guarantee you there will be no CPU upgrade paths either.

As much as you might think the nMacPro's internals are upgradeable, your practical upgrade options are actually as limited as an iMac.

Might be advisable to wait for the new Mac Pro's release and wait for people who will purchase this to give their feedback or wait for reviews to be posted in blog sites. Though the GPUs are powerful versions, we still have to see it's performance on games and heat management. And as Rocketman77 pointed out, your upgrade path may be limited.

I'm one of the biggest advocates for the new Mac Pro, but I'm also one of the first to say this machine is not great for gamers. The lack of upgradable GPUs means you'll likely be looking to replace it in a couple of years.

However, if your disposable income means a more frequent replacement cycle is not a concern, then I'd get the Quad/D300. I suggest the quad because of it's high clocks and the fact that few (if any?) games can use more than four cores. And the D300 is a Pitcairn based GPU which has been shown to be just at good at gaming as a neutered Tahiti based GPU such as the D500.

Hopefully there will be lots of 3rd party options for Ram and internal SSD ( a pain to replace the SSD with the OS on it though ) in the nMP SSD come January. Maybe someone can fashion a 2nd position.

My concern is that processor upgrades may be short lived with the switch from LGA 2011 to LGA 1150 with Broadwell assuming thats what the nMP 7,1 in 2015 uses.

There is a chance that is when the first GPU upgrades for the nMP 6,1 would show up, hand me downs from the 7,1. Its all speculation if AMD has some exclusivity for "X" months before Nvidia is allowed to make, or has any desire to make GPU's for the nMP.

RodPinto said:

Owc must come with an alternative for the ssd, ram is easily upgradeable and even the gpu won't be soldered in and will be connected through a proprietary connector to a board meaning that there won't be any difficulties for nvidia and other companies to produce their gpus to work with the nMPRO (according to a strong source for macrumors).

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If you're banking on GPU upgradability, I know of nobody who seriously believes there's even a good chance the nMP will ever have 3rd party graphics cards. The article you read just said that they can be disconnected and replaced, it did not even imply that there would be something to replace it with.

You would be much better off buying a refurbished 6 core "old" Mac Pro and popping in a single Geforce GTX780. It would be much faster. You could potentially even put 2 in, if you don't mind throwing in a 2nd PSU.

We're not even sure if the nMP will use crossfire (probably will not). If it doesn't, even if you spring for the D700 (the best option, which I think will cost at least $3000 over the base model) you're basically buying the gaming power of a Radeon 7970 and paying an obscene amount of money to do it.

Even if the cards are crossfire, the nMP does not have a good enough power supply to run them at full speed. The TPD of two equivalent cards (W9000) is 578 Watts and the PSU is only 450 watts--and that's before the processor is added in!

If you do "a lot" of gaming and not a lot of computationally-intense professional work, I would strongly recommend building a gaming PC or buying an old Mac Pro.

I 100% guaranty you'll be better off not getting a nMP for gaming!

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VirtualRain said:

I'm one of the biggest advocates for the new Mac Pro, but I'm also one of the first to say this machine is not great for gamers. The lack of upgradable GPUs means you'll likely be looking to replace it in a couple of years.

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He speaks the truth! Listen to this man!

RodPinto said:

Everything on the nMPRO is much more easier for user access. And, as I've been reading, we'll be able to upgrade everything except the processors in this new machine.

Owc must come with an alternative for the ssd, ram is easily upgradeable and even the gpu won't be soldered in and will be connected through a proprietary connector to a board meaning that there won't be any difficulties for nvidia and other companies to produce their gpus to work with the nMPRO (according to a strong source for macrumors).

That's why I also would like to know which CPU I should buy. Which one has the best cost benefit?

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You have it backwards. The cpus are not in a proprietary form factor. You're more likely to be able to upgrade them, although they would be from the same generation. After Ivy it goes to a new socket. Your only really likely path for cpu upgrades would be hunting ebay when people start to retire that generation of servers. This would probably be in about 5 years. GPUs are much less likely to be upgradeable. Someone would have to make an after market part, and with a very low volume line, it's not that likely. OWC will probably do something for the ssds, but if you look at their pricing schedule on custom parts, it's still much more expensive than a typical 2.5" ssd. GPUs have nothing to do with whether NVidia could produce something that plugs in. They never did this directly. EVGA did it, and the board type was identical to the PC version. They no longer have that option, so it's extremely unlikely. Don't bet on it.

RodPinto said:

I already know that some people think that I'd better spend my money on a cheaper machine, or a gaming one, but nothing is going to make me give up on the nMPRO. I'll get a an apple thunderbolt display too, hoping a revised one come soon.

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I know you've got your heart set on it, but you really are wasting your money on a product that is quite inferior for your needs to the alternatives.

For you I think the old Mac Pro is a good choice, but just throwing it out there: Dual rigs can be cool too. Here's mine - Totally top of the line high quality PC parts with great warranties, will blow the nMP away on any gaming benchmark. Plus I don't have to reboot to play, just hit a button on my KVM, play for a few minutes, and click back to work. I can check my email on my Mac on the second screen without switching over.

why do you mention that you are a lawyer...are you insinuating that money is not an option...if you game allot get a pc.. should i get a nmpro to game are the stupidest questions on the forum rite now

RodPinto said:

I know that almost everybody here is going to disapprove my choice but i've just returned my imac 27 i7 256 ssd, 16 gb ram, gtx 780m 4gb...

The reason why is that I need something to last, more future proof and user upgradeable.

I'm a lawyer and since I also do a lot of gaming, do you think I'll be ok getting the new imac 6 core with the double d500? Or should I spend more and get the same 6 core model that we can see at Apple's website upgrading the gpu to the d700?

I already know that some people think that I'd better spend my money on a cheaper machine, or a gaming one, but nothing is going to make me give up on the nMPRO. I'll get a an apple thunderbolt display too, hoping a revised one come soon.

Also, will the 2 d700 work through crossfire when bootcamping windows?

Regards

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If you want to game, buy a gaming PC, they'll be cheaper, more future proof than an New mac Pro, and more built to the task, and cool looking

http://www.alienware.com/

http://www.falcon-nw.com/

http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/

http://www.maingear.com/

http://www.ibuypower.com/

http://www.digitalstormonline.com/

http://www.gamepc.com/shop/systemfamily.asp?family=gpcp9

All of the above makers offer very expandable, cool looking and well made computers. And all of the above will custom build a machine to any spec you want, if your willing to pay.

get gaming pc

If you are a serious gamer, I think you should have kept the iMac. Then once you have built or bought a dedicated gaming rig, put the considerable change back into your bank account. An iMac plus a dedicated gaming rig is cheaper than a new 6.1 mac pro

RodPinto said:

The 'problem' is that I'm from Brazil and we don't have refurbished macs here. If i decide to go with the older Mac pro I'll be paying the same full price I would pay before the release of the new one, so I really don't want to pay that much for an outdated machine...

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I meant that I use my computer mostly for text production, research and, like I said before, gaming. Based on that, I wanted to give you all the idea that obviously I don't work with professional graphics and video apps, and even on this situation, I want to go with the nMPRO.

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I understand but none of this companies offer this products where I live (Brazil). That's my big problem.

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RodPinto, i think your best option is to build a PC by yourself for gaming and stick with the iMac. But i know the "desire" inside you really wants the best computer apple can provide, so i don't blame you to think like that cause i kind think that way as well so, get the nMP but don't expect it to be a monster gaming machine. Stay sharp to order a PS4 or XOne as needed...
By the way, im from Brazil as well and not going purchase nMP here.

I am from Latin america to (Chile),
Some facts, the mac pro is not going to be a super-gaming machine nor future proof. In a year from now, there are going to be new AMD and Nvidia Chips around, and you will have to pray for a compatible card (probably expensive).
If you want to game, paying for workstation graphics is no-sense, they underperform, and they cost 4 times more.
the new mac pro is going to be insanely expensive in latin america, probably with little to none custom options. (I assume around 5000 usd for base model) for a machine that performs in gaming as a 1200 usd PC.
I find the mac pro a terrific design, beautiful, etc... but is not a gaming machine. (The games probably are not even gonna see the 2 cards, and only use one)
Even getting a Dell desktop is a better idea for gaming...

RodPinto said:

The 'problem' is that I'm from Brazil and we don't have refurbished macs here. If i decide to go with the older Mac pro I'll be paying the same full price I would pay before the release of the new one, so I really don't want to pay that much for an outdated machine...

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Maybe ebay is possible?

You should think about that term, "outdated". The nMP will have a 2 year old video card when it is released. The only thing new about it is the form-factor and the processor, and the processor is not going to be that much faster than the old Mac Pro.

GPU is much more important than CPU for gaming. Therefore an old Mac Pro with a modern GPU will blast the nMP out of the water for games.

Maybe you should go with a Mac Mini and a Gaming PC? You'll save a ton of money and can get a top of the line gaming machine.

I feel like we're all clobbering you with trying to discourage you. I'm sorry for that.

It pains me to say this, but I think the Steambox will be a better bet for gaming. I am tempted to take this route.

RodPinto said:

Are you going to bring it from the US? How do you intend to hide it from the customs? Do you think we may find BTO at the Apple Stores? I was thinking right now that games might not use more than 4 cores, so i think i'll get the $ 3000 one addind to it the d700 gpu...

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It's so small that fits into a hand bag, so no problem to transport back to Brazil with you. I'm willing to get the hex configured with d700 or d500 depending on the price tag of d700s.

Your best shot to find BTO configs is at resellers like B&H (NYC), not at Apple stores.

RodPinto said:

Great idea... I just hope not be discovered... Because if i do, it's gonna be the same price as here, except we won't be able to put it on the credit card in 12x.

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Throw it in a bag with some vac accessories. Nobody will even notice it.