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Old Nov 26, 2013, 09:11 PM   #1
MacSumo
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What's your opinion on the MacBook Pro not being a professional's computer?

From http://www.reddit.com/r/apple/commen...na_is_not_for/

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The Macbook Pro Retina is not designed for photographers or video editors. Here's why, and this is coming from someone who just returned a brand new $3000 Macbook Pro Retina 15".

1) Photographers cannot get good color accuracy because of the rMBP's inferior display in terms of color gamut rating. Proof: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1432348

2) Content creators cannot rely on the display of the rMBP due to image burn in. This is a huge issue, even for their LG and Samsung panels. Proof: https://discussions.apple.com/message/18669644

3) Content creators cannot rely on the display of the rMBP due to yellow tinting. This applies more to the Samsung models, and the revised LG SJE2 panel, than others. Proof: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1660649

4) rMBP users are destined for hardware trouble due to bad build design. Apple mainly innovates on the body of the design on the rMBP. Apple outsources parts from other companies that manufacture parts overseas in China. Apple uses Sandisk for their SSDs, and LG/Samsung for their displays, though I'm not sure who Apple pays for their motherboard manufacturing. The point is that Apple has little control over manufacturing, and the part that they do have control, the body of the rMBP, are not designed well.

The rMBP is not designed to be cool. The small left and right fans have a maximum RPM of 6000 (left is 6000, right is 5500, IIRC).

For example, the CPU on their base 15" model is a i7-4750HQ. While a decent CPU, Apple is not capable of properly cooling it. Idle temperatures average around 60C. When under load, such as rendering videos in After Effects, the CPU never goes below 90C. At many times, it sits at 100C, which is the Tjunction of the CPU.

Proof: http://ark.intel.com/products/76087

Further proof: Test a rMBP by running a complex render in After Effects, video conversion, or benchmark (such as from Geekbench Pro). While that's running, launch Temperature Gauge Pro (trial version is 3 days). Notice how bad the rMBP is at cooling, and then realize how this will hurt your CPU's life-cycle.

5) The rMBP 15" has a max usable resolution of 1920x1200. This is slightly better than the run of the mill 1080p. For $3000, all you get is 1200p. The display size is far too small for practical high resolution uses. Apple needs to REALLY innovate this time by manufacturing a sub 5 pound 19" laptop that offers a true 2k usable resolution. Heck, for the BILLIONS of dollars Apple has, they should push it further and make a sub 5 pound 20" laptop.

Due to all the problems above, the rMBP 15" (which is a workstation system) is not suitable for professionals. It does not offer good color accuracy or performance (due to CPU throttling from a bad cooling design).
Anybody here tried to render complex projects in after effects, and also checked their temperatures?
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Old Nov 26, 2013, 09:17 PM   #2
thaifood
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Define "professional"

You will encounter a plethora of different classifications of what one deems professional.

If it gets the job done in a timely manner and is beneficial to your own workflow, then by all means use the machine that best matches that criteria. Playing the min/max game on specifications and/or theoretical performance is a lesson in futility.
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Old Nov 26, 2013, 09:20 PM   #3
MacSumo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaifood View Post
Define "professional"

You will encounter a plethora of different classifications of what one deems professional.

If it gets the job done in a timely manner and is beneficial to your own workflow, then by all means use the machine that best matches that criteria. Playing the min/max game on specifications and/or theoretical performance is a lesson in futility.
Good point.

Here's the definition of professional:

Quote:
Engaging in a given activity as a source of livelihood or as a career: a professional writer.
Professional writer: yes, the macbook pro is suitable as long as the keyboard does not heat up and burn the writer's fingers.

Professional digital artist who does print work: no, the macbook pro has a bad display

Professional digital artist who does video work: no, the macbook pro over heats when rendering.
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Old Nov 26, 2013, 09:23 PM   #4
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XXXXX

EDIT: Thaifood beat me to it.
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Old Nov 26, 2013, 09:27 PM   #5
burgman
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New member, starts bashing, Apple crippled, mission accomplished.
Bye
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Old Nov 26, 2013, 09:31 PM   #6
MacSumo
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Originally Posted by burgman View Post
New member, starts bashing, Apple crippled, mission accomplished.
Bye
Hi,

Can you stick to the topic? There are clear issues outlined.
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Old Nov 26, 2013, 09:32 PM   #7
aristobrat
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I'm a professional systems analyst. No problems with my rMBP. Probably the most common notebook seen when I'm with other IT professionals at conventions, training, etc.
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Old Nov 26, 2013, 09:33 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacSumo View Post
Here's the definition of professional:
Engaging in a given activity as a source of livelihood or as a career: a professional writer..

So... what work is not considered professional?
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Old Nov 26, 2013, 09:33 PM   #9
Xerotech
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I'll be surprised if professionals actually use this computer vs fans/students.

I have no more burn in issues with a swap from LG->Sammy.
The colors are fine.
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Old Nov 26, 2013, 09:34 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aristobrat View Post
I'm a professional systems analyst. No problems with my rMBP. Probably the most common notebook seen when I'm with other IT professionals at conventions, training, etc.
That's nice to hear.

In your line of work, do you utilize the full capabilities of the CPU? The problems with the macbook pro shouldn't affect you if you don't have a need to care about color accuracy, display quality, or push the CPU to do intensive calculations.
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Old Nov 26, 2013, 09:34 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacSumo View Post
Professional writer: yes, the macbook pro is suitable as long as the keyboard does not heat up and burn the writer's fingers.
What?

As for the displays, (still searching for the article) apple sells the best pre calibrated displays on the market across their line, with the exception of the retina mini but that was a tradeoff given the current tech for backlighting.
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Old Nov 26, 2013, 09:38 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by NT1440 View Post
What?

As for the displays, (still searching for the article) apple sells the best pre calibrated displays on the market across their line, with the exception of the retina mini but that was a tradeoff given the current tech for backlighting.
Can you please explain the criteria that make it the best? It's just that this was linked straight from macrumors:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1432348

And don't forget this 500 page topic:

https://discussions.apple.com/message/18669644#18669644

Or the yellow ting issue:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1660649

I'm at loss of how apple has the "best" precalibrated screens when their screens suffer from ghosting, yellow tinting, and low color gamut.
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Old Nov 26, 2013, 09:44 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacSumo View Post
Can you please explain the criteria that make it the best? It's just that this was linked straight from macrumors:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1432348

And don't forget this 500 page topic:

https://discussions.apple.com/message/18669644#18669644

Or the yellow ting issue:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1660649

I'm at loss of how apple has the "best" precalibrated screens when their screens suffer from ghosting, yellow tinting, and low color gamut.
Whatever is the best when you don't own it. Like the girl who you never banged.
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Old Nov 26, 2013, 09:47 PM   #14
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If a person didn’t like the Macbook Pro there are many other brands of computers they could choose.

But that person would most likely be in a very small percentage of “professional users”

Why not get a Dell and let all the other “professional users” make their own choices rather than you decide whats good for everyone else.
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Old Nov 26, 2013, 10:16 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacSumo View Post
From http://www.reddit.com/r/apple/commen...na_is_not_for/



Anybody here tried to render complex projects in after effects, and also checked their temperatures?
Sure, doesn't really matter if a project is complex or not. With rendering its usually between 90c en 100c.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by aristobrat View Post
I'm a professional systems analyst. No problems with my rMBP. Probably the most common notebook seen when I'm with other IT professionals at conventions, training, etc.
well doh, it's not like they need real color accuracy, what the poster here is talking about.
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Old Nov 26, 2013, 10:24 PM   #16
thaifood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacSumo View Post
Good point.

Here's the definition of professional:



Professional writer: yes, the macbook pro is suitable as long as the keyboard does not heat up and burn the writer's fingers.

Professional digital artist who does print work: no, the macbook pro has a bad display

Professional digital artist who does video work: no, the macbook pro over heats when rendering.
I'm pretty sure a professional digital artist or videographer would be using a larger external display that is calibrated and increases their screen real estate if the MBPr does not fit their exacting standards of screen quality. Perhaps relying on the processing power of the machine. Feel free to chime in if you are one of these.

At the end of the day, if you don't think it's a match, pick something else. Noone is forcing you to buy it.

But, I'm sure there are plenty of people who make a living and use the MBPr as their primary machine.
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Old Nov 26, 2013, 10:26 PM   #17
Jaben3421
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacSumo View Post
Can you please explain the criteria that make it the best? It's just that this was linked straight from macrumors:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1432348

And don't forget this 500 page topic:

https://discussions.apple.com/message/18669644#18669644

Or the yellow ting issue:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1660649

I'm at loss of how apple has the "best" precalibrated screens when their screens suffer from ghosting, yellow tinting, and low color gamut.
Let's remember how apple has sold hundreds of thousands of these units, and of those amounts just these couple thousand people are actually on this forum. Then of those people, this small amount are reporting issues. No one comes to say how great their computer is running. Whenever computers are mass produced, there is going to be some amount of failure rate. Bottom line, these are extremely small amounts of units made that are experiencing problems. I have a rMBP and have zero issues whatsoever. If you don't even own a model, why are you complaining anyways? If you don't like these computers, don't buy one. There are plenty of alternatives that you can buy.
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Old Nov 26, 2013, 10:31 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by albertdros View Post
well doh, it's not like they need real color accuracy, what the poster here is talking about.
The title of this thread is "What's your opinion on the Macbook pro not being a professional's computer?" I'm a professional. I gave my opinion.
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Old Nov 26, 2013, 10:32 PM   #19
Quackers
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My screen looks perfect, thanks
First gen LG and still cool, bright whites and bright, vibrant colours.
No ghosting, no yellow tint.
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Old Nov 26, 2013, 10:36 PM   #20
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I guess they should rename it 'MacBook Amateur' then.
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Old Nov 26, 2013, 10:49 PM   #21
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Another supplier should be used in addition to LG and Samsung and perhaps they should drop LG all together. Samsung also seems to do well on the SSD front. Is Sandisk the ones who make the PCIe SSDs? I thought Samsung did that.
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Old Nov 26, 2013, 10:53 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Ice Dragon View Post
Another supplier should be used in addition to LG and Samsung and perhaps they should drop LG all together. Samsung also seems to do well on the SSD front. Is Sandisk the ones who make the PCIe SSDs? I thought Samsung did that.
I agree. LG should be dropped, and maybe Samsung, too. For the price tag of a macbook pro 15", the display has to be 10+bit, no dithering, factory calibrated, no dead pixels, and good uniformity with no backlight bleed. I've realized few people here actually calibrate their monitors, let alone know how.

The "retina" gimmick needs to go away if they're sticking to 15.4" displays. Many professionals require actual real estate, not retina marketing resolutions of 1440x900. CAD designers, artists doing print work, and special FX designers need the higher screen real estate...true 2k resolution on a larger monitor. The 15.4" rMBP maxes out at 1920x1200. If you go any higher, you'll need a magnifying glass.
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Old Nov 26, 2013, 10:58 PM   #23
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I use it for web + mobile design work as well as some illustration and man it gets super hot super quick. I also dont know if thats Apple or Adobes fault but both PS and AI eat up a ton of RAM real quick.

I do most of my heavy work on an external display now because I cant stand the blurriness in Photoshop using the scaled resolutions and just how hot it gets. It honestly it performs silky smooth when I use an external display and I dont notice any chugging or stutters. I guess its having to push less pixels?
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Old Nov 26, 2013, 11:02 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by MacSumo View Post
I agree. LG should be dropped, and maybe Samsung, too. For the price tag of a macbook pro 15", the display has to be 10+bit, no dithering, factory calibrated, no dead pixels, and good uniformity with no backlight bleed. I've realized few people here actually calibrate their monitors, let alone know how.

The "retina" gimmick needs to go away if they're sticking to 15.4" displays. Many professionals require actual real estate, not retina marketing resolutions of 1440x900. CAD designers, artists doing print work, and special FX designers need the higher screen real estate...true 2k resolution on a larger monitor. The 15.4" rMBP maxes out at 1920x1200. If you go any higher, you'll need a magnifying glass.
I agree with everything except you wanting to drop Samsung and only because I don't know of other quality component makers.
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Old Nov 26, 2013, 11:06 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by ifaptoomuch View Post
I use it for web + mobile design work as well as some illustration and man it gets super hot super quick. I also dont know if thats Apple or Adobes fault but both PS and AI eat up a ton of RAM real quick.

I do most of my heavy work on an external display now because I cant stand the blurriness in Photoshop using the scaled resolutions and just how hot it gets. It honestly it performs silky smooth when I use an external display and I dont notice any chugging or stutters. I guess its having to push less pixels?
Thank you! Finally, someone that chimes in with experience, too.

I've tested tons of macbook pro retinas, and they suffer from the problem you described. The unibody of the laptop is either uncomfortably cold when not in use, or uncomfortably hot when in actual use, like you're doing.

I bet your temps are near 70c when working in photoshop and illustrator. You are very lucky you don't have to do any video editing work, because your temps will sky rocket.

Anyone reading this post should test it. Go download a trial version of After Effects CC. Then, create a new composition and add a complex fractal that generates frames for up to 10 minutes. Now hit render and watch your macbook pro BURN. I will pay anyone here $20 via paypal if you can render a project file I give on a macbook pro while not having your cpu temps go above 90c. You have to take a video of it and include your username while videotaping.

The terms of the contest are:

1) You must completely render the project file I give you in After Effects CC. You're only allowed to load it, add it to the render queue, and hit render
2) You must have temperature guage pro running while recording. I must see your temps in real time. If any one of your temps exceed 90C for more than 30 seconds, you are disqualified. I will be looking at the temperatures of all of your cores, along with the average core temp.
3) Any editing of the recorded video will lead to disqualification
4) If any of your temps reach or exceed 100C, you are disqualified
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