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Old Dec 8, 2013, 07:14 PM   #1
citizenzen
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Equal Time for Satan

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Satanists want statue beside Ten Commandments monument at Oklahoma Legislature

OKLAHOMA CITY -- In their zeal to tout their faith in the public square, conservatives in Oklahoma may have unwittingly opened the door to a wide range of religious groups, including satanists who are seeking to put their own statue next to a Ten Commandments monument on the Statehouse steps.

The Republican-controlled Legislature in this state known as the buckle of the Bible Belt authorized the privately funded Ten Commandments monument in 2009, and it was placed on the Capitol grounds last year despite criticism from legal experts who questioned its constitutionality. The Oklahoma chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union has filed a lawsuit seeking its removal.

But the New York-based Satanic Temple saw an opportunity. It notified the state's Capitol Preservation Commission that it wants to donate a monument and plans to submit one of several possible designs this month, said Lucien Greaves, a spokesman for the temple.

"We believe that all monuments should be in good taste and consistent with community standards," Greaves wrote in letter to state officials. "Our proposed monument, as an homage to the historic/literary Satan, will certainly abide by these guidelines."

Brady Henderson, legal director for ACLU Oklahoma, said if state officials allow one type of religious expression, they must allow alternative forms of expression, although he said a better solution might be to allow none at all on state property.

"We would prefer to see Oklahoma's government officials work to faithfully serve our communities and improve the lives of Oklahomans instead of erecting granite monuments to show us all how righteous they are," Henderson said.

"But if the Ten Commandments, with its overtly Christian message, is allowed to stay at the Capitol, the Satanic Temple's proposed monument cannot be rejected because of its different religious viewpoint."
I too would rather see no religion affiliated with our government institutions.

However, if we are going to allow religious expression in our public buildings, then I fully support Satanists in their desire to likewise participate.
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Old Dec 8, 2013, 10:59 PM   #2
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From reading the NBC news article about this, I see that according to Lucien Greaves, a spokesman for the the New York-based Satanic Temple, "one potential design for the monument to Satan involves a pentagram, a satanic symbol, while another is meant to be an interactive display for children."

The interactive display for children certainly sounds more educational and interesting than some boring pentagram design. (Pentagram? That's just too cliche!)

If nothing else, maybe the monument to Satan would encourage Oklahomans to spiffy up their present Ten Commandments monument, to give it less of the tombstone look.

Thumb resize.
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Old Dec 8, 2013, 11:38 PM   #3
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So what would the statue have? Quotes from the Satanist's Bible?
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Old Dec 8, 2013, 11:42 PM   #4
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I really, really like their approach. It'll be interesting to see where this will go. While I personally don't take Satanists any more serious than Christians, they do have a good point.
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Old Dec 8, 2013, 11:47 PM   #5
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So what would the statue have? Quotes from the Satanist's Bible?
A sound system that plays songs backwards would be a nice touch...
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Old Dec 8, 2013, 11:50 PM   #6
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A sound system that plays songs backwards would be a nice touch...
Brilliant! Led zeppelins Stairway to Heaven belongs there, the part where it says here's to my sweet Satan.
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Old Dec 9, 2013, 12:03 AM   #7
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Brilliant! Led zeppelins Stairway to Heaven belongs there, the part where it says here's to my sweet Satan.
I thought it said "oh mah sweet SAY-tan, derp a doo a derp a do a SAY-tan".

Anyway, I'm all for this. We need more statues of Ayn Rand standing around to scare little kids with.
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Old Dec 9, 2013, 12:11 AM   #8
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And someone will hack it and record "live lla fo toor eht".
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Old Dec 9, 2013, 12:14 AM   #9
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Brilliant! Led zeppelins Stairway to Heaven belongs there, the part where it says here's to my sweet Satan.
Yes, yes... that song is one of the biggest backwards masking hits of all times!

Maybe a short video about yoga or Harry Potter would be good too, since both are gateways to Satanism.
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Old Dec 9, 2013, 01:38 AM   #10
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I'm confused after reading the article. Do these people really worship Satan?

Or is their point to only show up the Christians?
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Old Dec 9, 2013, 01:48 AM   #11
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I'm confused after reading the article. Do these people really worship Satan?

Or is their point to only show up the Christians?
They don't worship Satan like in horror movies but recognize that all gods are a creation of man and that man himself is the one that offers love or delivers wrath to his peers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton LaVey
Since the Satanist understands that all Gods are fiction, instead of bending a knee in worship to—or seeking friendship or unity with—such mythical entities, he places himself at the center of his own subjective universe as his own highest value.
Given that many [Christian] people these days use their religion as a means to judge and rule over others, they are in fact acting on Satanic principles. The irony!
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Old Dec 9, 2013, 02:04 AM   #12
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Isn't anyone going to reference SNL with this?
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Old Dec 9, 2013, 02:50 AM   #13
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They don't worship Satan like in horror movies but recognize that all gods are a creation of man and that man himself is the one that offers love or delivers wrath to his peers. ...
There seems to be different branches of Satanism. Atheistic Satanism, which views Satan (and other gods/deities) as a myth, and Theistic Satanism, which views Satan as an actual deity.

That said, the question of whether or not displays of the Ten Commandments should be allowed in public buildings is an interesting question. The page Court Decisions on the Ten Commandments has info on recent court cases.

I get the overall impression that the courts have, in general, ruled that most of more sedate displays of the 10 Commandments that have been up for a good number of years are OK, while tending to rule against most of the more recently built displays that tend to be basically very "in your face".
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Last edited by localoid; Dec 9, 2013 at 03:07 AM.
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Old Dec 9, 2013, 05:51 AM   #14
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I can't think of a better place for a monument to Satan than on the steps of a state capitol.
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Old Dec 9, 2013, 05:54 AM   #15
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Worshipping a fictional angel because they don't believe in a fictional god? Might as well worshop Ironman. The comics are written evidence and the movies are video evidence in the same way religious texts are evidence for religions.
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Old Dec 9, 2013, 07:03 AM   #16
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Always amazes me how many atheists are on here and how fast you come out of the woodwork.
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Old Dec 9, 2013, 07:13 AM   #17
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I have a better idea, how about we follow the Constitution and remove all religious symbols from the courthouse, including the ten commandments.
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Old Dec 9, 2013, 07:21 AM   #18
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Always amazes me how many atheists are on here and how fast you come out of the woodwork.
I suspect there are more of us than there are people of "faith". I consider myself agnostic however. I keep an open mind. But I'm not going to bet my whole hand on a single card like most religious zealots.
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Old Dec 9, 2013, 07:23 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by EvilQueen View Post
Always amazes me how many atheists are on here and how fast you come out of the woodwork.

Sorry, you can't have it both ways. Either religious symbols can be displayed for ALL or none. I'd prefer none.
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Old Dec 9, 2013, 07:34 AM   #20
citizenzen
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Originally Posted by EvilQueen View Post
Always amazes me how many atheists are on here and how fast you come out of the woodwork.
Do you have any thoughts to share on the topic, instead of the people commenting on it?

And I'm Buddhist / Atheist, btw.

Some Buddhism at the state capitol might be a good idea as well.

A display of the Eightfold Path might help the legislators conduct themselves better than the Ten Commandments.

Quote:
The Eightfold Path

1. Right Understanding (Samma ditthi)
2. Right Thought (Samma sankappa)
3. Right Speech (Samma vaca)
4. Right Action (Samma kammanta)
5. Right Livelihood (Samma ajiva)
6. Right Effort (Samma vayama)
7. Right Mindfulness (Samma sati)
8. Right Concentration (Samma samadhi)

http://www.tricycle.com/new-buddhism...eightfold-path
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Old Dec 9, 2013, 08:03 AM   #21
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A large statue of Dave Grohl dressed up in his Satan costume would be great!
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Old Dec 9, 2013, 08:05 AM   #22
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I have a better idea, how about we follow the Constitution and remove all religious symbols from the courthouse, including the ten commandments.
Where does the Constitution say that there shall be no religious symbols on courthouses?
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Old Dec 9, 2013, 08:15 AM   #23
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Where does the Constitution say that there shall be no religious symbols on courthouses?
First amendment.
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Old Dec 9, 2013, 08:22 AM   #24
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First amendment.
I assume you are referring to the anti-establishment clause: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion".

That phrase was included to prohibit Congress from establishing a national religion or church. Religious imagery in a courthouse is hardly establishment of a religion.
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Old Dec 9, 2013, 08:45 AM   #25
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I assume you are referring to the anti-establishment clause: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion".

That phrase was included to prohibit Congress from establishing a national religion or church. Religious imagery in a courthouse is hardly establishment of a religion.
Actually, what they meant was the separation of state and church. Religion was never to be part of government, not after the long battle against King George III and the Church of England. Yet, somehow over time, religion became an integral part of the (white) people and their vows for a life in freedom guided by religious morals.

Ironically, some founding fathers were Episcopalian who these days are pushing for equal rights.
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