Register FAQ / Rules Forum Spy Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   MacRumors Forums > Mac Community > Community Discussion > Politics, Religion, Social Issues

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Dec 29, 2013, 11:27 PM   #1
stylinexpat
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
75% tax rate passed in France!

WTF? Thank God I don't hold a French Passport! 75% is no joke..

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-1...naire-tax.html
__________________
2010 MacBook Pro 13"
2.66GHz
4GB RAM
200GB Vertex 2 SSD RAID
stylinexpat is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 29, 2013, 11:34 PM   #2
citizenzen
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Salaries above $1,370,000.00.

You must be very well paid.
citizenzen is offline   6 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 29, 2013, 11:54 PM   #3
Technarchy
macrumors 68040
 
Technarchy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
François Hollande has a 15% popularity. This is sure to earn him a few more enemies before he is booted in 2017.
Technarchy is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 29, 2013, 11:54 PM   #4
jnpy!$4g3cwk
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by stylinexpat View Post
WTF? Thank God I don't hold a French Passport! 75% is no joke..

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-1...naire-tax.html
Just have to point out that a 75% top marginal tax rate is way less than the U.S. had postwar. You can Google it for yourself, but, here is one for you:



Something of a golden age for the U.S. economy.
jnpy!$4g3cwk is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 30, 2013, 12:08 AM   #5
Technarchy
macrumors 68040
 
Technarchy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnpy!$4g3cwk View Post
Just have to point out that a 75% top marginal tax rate is way less than the U.S. had postwar. You can Google it for yourself, but, here is one for you:

Image

Something of a golden age for the U.S. economy.
Completely different historical and economic conditions.

For example the USA had a 3.9% unemployment in 1946 while France has near 11% unemployment...and no "WWII" expense...

Also France only has 280,000 millionaires, but a population of 62.6 million. Does anyone actually believe this equation can possibly balance the books? It will for sure create a few more Gérard Depardieu's who simply relocate to avoid the tax.
__________________
Steve Jobs, January 9th 2007, 10:44am: "We filed for over 200 patents for all the inventions in iPhone and we intend to protect them."

Last edited by Technarchy; Dec 30, 2013 at 12:50 AM.
Technarchy is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 30, 2013, 12:09 AM   #6
stylinexpat
Thread Starter
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnpy!$4g3cwk View Post
Just have to point out that a 75% top marginal tax rate is way less than the U.S. had postwar. You can Google it for yourself, but, here is one for you:

Image

Something of a golden age for the U.S. economy.
They are milking their people in France. 20% VAT rate is also not low. At the moment France is not at war with anyone.

http://www.vatlive.com/vat-rates/eur.../eu-vat-rates/
__________________
2010 MacBook Pro 13"
2.66GHz
4GB RAM
200GB Vertex 2 SSD RAID
stylinexpat is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 30, 2013, 12:32 AM   #7
Sydde
macrumors 68000
 
Sydde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
from your link,
France VAT Rate Standard VAT rate: 20%
Reduced VAT rates:
10% pharmaceuticals, passenger transport, admission to cultural sporting and entertainment events, hotels, accommodation, restaurants
5.5% medical, foodstuffs, ebooks, books
2.1% newspapers, pharmaceuticals
Yeah, "milking their people" is clearly hyperbole. And "their people" are not getting nothing for their taxes.
__________________
You got to be a spirit. You can't be no ghost.
Sydde is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 30, 2013, 12:32 AM   #8
LIVEFRMNYC
macrumors 68030
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by citizenzen View Post
Salaries above $1,370,000.00.

You must be very well paid.
So that would leave someone with that exact salary, with only $342,500. That's freaking ridiculous.
LIVEFRMNYC is online now   2 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 30, 2013, 12:34 AM   #9
jnpy!$4g3cwk
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post
Completely historical and economic conditions.
What?

Quote:
Does anyone actually believe this equation can possibly balance the books?
That isn't the point, I'm sure. A million Euros is enough spending money for anyone, and, any more than that will be misspent on expensive yachts or misused to finance the kind of political nonsense that the plutocrats use their money for in the U.S.

Quote:
It will for sure create a few more Gérard Depardieu's who simply relocate to avoid the tax.
Another benefit. It has been all downhill since La chèvre and Les compères. I never could reconcile Depardieu's alleged friendship with Fidel Castro and his whining about what he thinks he is entitled to spend. That he prefers to be a Russian citizen than a French citizen -- says a lot.
jnpy!$4g3cwk is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 30, 2013, 12:34 AM   #10
G51989
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New York State
Quote:
Originally Posted by stylinexpat View Post
They are milking their people in France. 20% VAT rate is also not low. At the moment France is not at war with anyone.

http://www.vatlive.com/vat-rates/eur.../eu-vat-rates/
The French people are not really " milked ", yes they pay higher taxes than people in the US of A do. But they enjoy a much higher standard of living, better healthcare, better transit systems, better schools, better roads, better safety nets, better working conditions, and much less wealth inequality. Their government also does a much better job regulating their food supply, so they even eat better to.

Money well spent.

France is also engaged in extensive military operations in Africa.

I would say most Americans are " milked " far harder, all their taxes get them is broken down infrastructure, overpriced schools and bad healthcare. As well as a giant military that sails around the world defending America from nothing.
G51989 is offline   11 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 30, 2013, 12:37 AM   #11
Sydde
macrumors 68000
 
Sydde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by LIVEFRMNYC View Post
So that would leave someone with that exact salary, with only $342,500. That's freaking ridiculous.
Well, consider the case of the late Mr. Jobs. He would have two bits left after taxes. (My point being that executive compensation packages include a lot more than just "salary").
__________________
You got to be a spirit. You can't be no ghost.
Sydde is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 30, 2013, 12:47 AM   #12
.Andy
macrumors 68030
 
.Andy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The Mergui Archipelago
Quote:
Originally Posted by LIVEFRMNYC View Post
So that would leave someone with that exact salary, with only $342,500. That's freaking ridiculous.
From reading the link I thought it was only the proportion of income that falls into the highest tax bracket that will be taxed 75%. Not a flat tax on all income. I could well be wrong though...
__________________
Each man's death diminishes me, for I am involved in mankind. Therefore, send not to know for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee.
.Andy is offline   7 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 30, 2013, 12:50 AM   #13
jnpy!$4g3cwk
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by LIVEFRMNYC View Post
So that would leave someone with that exact salary, with only $342,500. That's freaking ridiculous.
I can't tell exactly what you mean, but, the French rates are marginal rates above certain thresholds just as in the U.S. As stated in the article, the 75% rate applies to that part of the salary above 1 Million Euros per year.

Here is a real-estate website in English with a (now slightly outdated) explanation of various taxes.

http://www.french-property.com/guide...tion/taxation/
jnpy!$4g3cwk is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 30, 2013, 12:53 AM   #14
JoeG4
macrumors 68020
 
JoeG4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Bay Area, Ca.
Send a message via ICQ to JoeG4 Send a message via AIM to JoeG4
Pft, laws like this are ********.

I may be wrong on this, but don't people that make that much money either (a) get hired on as a consulting firm so that their "company" is making the money and not them, or (b) take the majority of the money as stock/stock options and not on a W2 paycheck?

The tax liability for getting that much on a W2 is insane.
__________________
I've been a huge fan of Mac OS X since 2001!
JoeG4 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 30, 2013, 12:53 AM   #15
thekev
macrumors 603
 
thekev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by LIVEFRMNYC View Post
So that would leave someone with that exact salary, with only $342,500. That's freaking ridiculous.

Is that implicit sarcasm? Even if you didn't read the article, you should be aware that marginal tax rates only apply to income above the point where they kick in. Otherwise such a system doesn't work as you can effectively lower your take-home at certain thresholds. This also misses the point of how it's applied. You might want to read the article. They are apparently imposing a "duty" on wages. I'm not sure how this balances out with whatever capital gains like system they have in place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeG4 View Post
Pft, laws like this are ********.

I don't think anyone takes a real salary of more than 200k/year, at that point you get an LLC and sell yourself as a consultant. That or you take a modest salary and enormous stock/options as payment.

Anyone who gets >1-2 mil on a W2 form is insane.
That's true in the US. Do you know how it works in France? That's a non-rhetorical question. I know almost nothing about their system. My other comment was directly related to the article.
__________________
world's largest manufacturer of tin foil hats, none of that aluminum foil crap.
thekev is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 30, 2013, 12:59 AM   #16
G51989
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New York State
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeG4 View Post
Pft, laws like this are ********.

I may be wrong on this, but don't people that make that much money either (a) get hired on as a consulting firm so that their "company" is making the money and not them, or (b) take the majority of the money as stock/stock options and not on a W2 paycheck?

The tax liability for getting that much on a W2 is insane.
This is France, I could be wrong, but I do not think they have the same type of loop hole filled system that the US does. I have noticed lots of things are very difference in France.

However I could be wrong, French tax code is highly confusing.

Were as France is a Democracy, America is a plutocracy with no functioning Representative goverment.
G51989 is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 30, 2013, 01:02 AM   #17
Technarchy
macrumors 68040
 
Technarchy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnpy!$4g3cwk View Post

That isn't the point, I'm sure.
It should be the point otherwise all you've got is government seizure without purpose.

France is in a very precarious economic situation as is, and to attempt balancing the books on a tiny segment of the population with 19% of the wealth is economic stupidity. Especially in Europe where mobility is quite easy for the the wealthy.

It's akin to saying Detroit can be fixed by raising taxes to 75%.

The USA could get away with a higher tax rate because we have way more wealthy with much more wealth hoarded. France though...
__________________
Steve Jobs, January 9th 2007, 10:44am: "We filed for over 200 patents for all the inventions in iPhone and we intend to protect them."
Technarchy is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 30, 2013, 01:08 AM   #18
808?
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Hong Kong
Maximum flat 15% personal income tax here in Hong Kong and the only sales tax is on petroleum products, tobbaco and some cosmetic products. No VAT.
808? is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 30, 2013, 01:25 AM   #19
stylinexpat
Thread Starter
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by 808? View Post
Maximum flat 15% personal income tax here in Hong Kong and the only sales tax is on petroleum products, tobbaco and some cosmetic products. No VAT.
They get you with fuel tax,transport cost and housing costs. Hard to beat Hong Kong otherwise. Much lower taxes compared to Europe. You don't need to pay ridiculous permit fees which are another source of tax that one has to pay in California. Each sink at a barber shop will cost you almost $1500 in California. The permit for the sink is over $1K per sink! In Hong Kong you don't have any of these BS permit fees either.
__________________
2010 MacBook Pro 13"
2.66GHz
4GB RAM
200GB Vertex 2 SSD RAID
stylinexpat is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 30, 2013, 01:29 AM   #20
jnpy!$4g3cwk
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post
It should be the point otherwise all you've got is government seizure without purpose.
Curbing excess consumption, and, preventing the flow of money into politics are both valid public benefits.

But, the implication of what you write here is basically trickle-down economics, a policy with millennia of failure to show for it:

Quote:
France is in a very precarious economic situation as is, and to attempt balancing the books on a tiny segment of the population with 19% of the wealth is economic stupidity. Especially in Europe where mobility is quite easy for the the wealthy.

It's akin to saying Detroit can be fixed by raising taxes to 75%.

The USA could get away with a higher tax rate because we have way more wealthy with much more wealth hoarded. France though...
I don't know whether the French taxes are structured to encourage investment or not. When the U.S. had high tax rates, the system worked to curb excess consumption by the wealthy and to encourage job-creating investment. The result was three decades of low unemployment during which most people felt that the economy was working.
jnpy!$4g3cwk is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 30, 2013, 01:32 AM   #21
G51989
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New York State
Quote:
Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post
It should be the point otherwise all you've got is government seizure without purpose.

France is in a very precarious economic situation as is, and to attempt balancing the books on a tiny segment of the population with 19% of the wealth is economic stupidity. Especially in Europe where mobility is quite easy for the the wealthy.

It's akin to saying Detroit can be fixed by raising taxes to 75%.

The USA could get away with a higher tax rate because we have way more wealthy with much more wealth hoarded. France though...
This is a fairly short sighted view on France.

Keep in mind, France/Germany are basically partners on every possible level, the main reason France isn't doing so hot is that its propping up the entire EU.

France and Germany for example will be in a FAR better position in the future, as they have invested in education and infrastructure as America has not.
The EU will be the next big upcoming power, along with China.

Most American wealth is based off the fact that the dollar is the worlds reserve currency, once that is gone, expect a crash worse than the one in 1929, hyper inflation and probably the end of America as we know it today, it will turn into Neo China or Mexico.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jnpy!$4g3cwk View Post
Curbing excess consumption, and, preventing the flow of money into politics are both valid public benefits.
Remember, most Americans think things like lobbying and money in politics is not only normal, but that it is a good thing. America is very much a nation of " me me me me me " and not a nation of " we "
G51989 is offline   4 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 30, 2013, 01:36 AM   #22
NewbieCanada
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by .Andy View Post
From reading the link I thought it was only the proportion of income that falls into the highest tax bracket that will be taxed 75%. Not a flat tax on all income. I could well be wrong though...
That's the way it works. Otherwise it would be pointless as people would simply refuse to be paid that much when they could earn less and take home much more.
__________________
nMP 6-core, D500, 32 GB, 1 TB rMBP 13" '13 2.4 gHz, 256 GB, 8GB Mini '11 i7, 256 GB SSD & 750 GB HDD, 16GB iPhone 5 64GB iPad Air 128
NewbieCanada is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 30, 2013, 01:42 AM   #23
stylinexpat
Thread Starter
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnpy!$4g3cwk View Post
Curbing excess consumption, and, preventing the flow of money into politics are both valid public benefits.

But, the implication of what you write here is basically trickle-down economics, a policy with millennia of failure to show for it:



I don't know whether the French taxes are structured to encourage investment or not. When the U.S. had high tax rates, the system worked to curb excess consumption by the wealthy and to encourage job-creating investment. The result was three decades of low unemployment during which most people felt that the economy was working.

That is also because the employer in the US has to pay another tax to the government on top of the wages he or she pays their employee. Those workers comp taxes add up and can deter businesses from hiring.
__________________
2010 MacBook Pro 13"
2.66GHz
4GB RAM
200GB Vertex 2 SSD RAID
stylinexpat is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 30, 2013, 02:20 AM   #24
Technarchy
macrumors 68040
 
Technarchy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by G51989 View Post

The EU will be the next big upcoming power, along with China.
Good luck with that theory

At best the EU equals the USA's GDP, has whole nations going down the toilet, and the USA is the largest contributor to the IMF, which is propping up a huge chunk of the Euro zone banking system.

China is one of the larger beneficiaries of globalism. It's a house of cards. If the USA goes down, everyone gets dragged down the toilet with us. The Eurozone, Canadians, Mexicans, OPEC, China, Japan and the global banking cartels are never going to allow that to happen. That's the joy of an intertwined global economy. Greece is tiny and everyone scrambled to get them afloat. What ould happen if the USA fell apart economically?

Quote:
Most American wealth is based off the fact that the dollar is the worlds reserve currency,
Most of the USA's wealth is based on real estate, but sure, dumping the dollar would stop cheap borrowing, but what happens if it is replaced by the Yuan? It hurts China's economy because the Yuan would be so strong that exports and manufacturing would be too expensive.

It will never be the Euro because pockets of Europe will always be on the verge of collapse and complete economic turmoil.

Can't be oil or gold because current economies are rigged to operate on manipulated fiat currency.

Everyone else is too small.

The dollar as reserve currency isn't going anywhere anytime soon, so don't hold your breath.

Last edited by Technarchy; Dec 30, 2013 at 03:47 AM.
Technarchy is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 30, 2013, 02:57 AM   #25
Happybunny
macrumors 65816
 
Happybunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 's-Hertogenbosch Netherlands
This is going to go terribly wrong for France and François Hollande, he has been warned by other leaders in the EU and by the ECB. They have told him and France that they should cut government spending by at least 18% per year.
Hollande is the last of the Old Guard of Hard Line socialists left in western Europe, he has been pledging this tax for many years that he was in opposition, and it was a main election promise.

This is a boil that has to be lanced, it has to be shown to everybody that it will not work. Those old ideas like to subsidise for failing industries, employment laws that stifle growth, these are all ideas which went out of style in the rest of Europe in the 1970-80’s.

Like the UK in the mid to late 70’s this is the death throws of Union power/Political power. The french socialists and Trade unions are living in the past.
__________________
'You cannot undo history, but you can learn from it'
Happybunny is offline   1 Reply With Quote


Reply
MacRumors Forums > Mac Community > Community Discussion > Politics, Religion, Social Issues

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How do you find out if Apple Tv will be tax exempt during your states tax exempt days Zellio Apple TV and Home Theater 3 Aug 10, 2013 01:08 AM
Apple Paid $6 Billion in Federal Income Tax in 2012, 1/40 of All U.S. Corporate Income Tax Collected MacRumors Politics, Religion, Social Issues 367 Feb 6, 2013 01:21 PM
Apple is example of broken system: Low tax only work if tax-investment cycle operates katewes Politics, Religion, Social Issues 8 Dec 31, 2012 12:15 AM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:33 PM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC