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Old Dec 30, 2013, 01:33 PM   #1
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The NSA has nearly complete backdoor access to Apple's iPhone

The U.S. National Security Agency has the ability to snoop on nearly every communication sent from an Apple iPhone, according to leaked documents shared by security researcher Jacob Appelbaum and German news magazine Der Spiegel.



According to leaked documents, the NSA claims a 100 percent success rate when it comes to implanting iOS devices with spyware. The documents suggest that the NSA needs physical access to a device to install the spyware—something the agency has achieved by rerouting shipments of devices purchased online—but a remote version of the exploit is also in the works.

Appelbaum says that presents one of two possibilities:

“Either [the NSA] have a huge collection of exploits that work against Apple products, meaning they are hoarding information about critical systems that American companies produce, and sabotaging them, or Apple sabotaged it themselves,” Appelbaum said at the Chaos Communication Conference in Hamburg, Germany.

“Do you think Apple helped them with that?” Appelbaum asked. “I hope Apple will clarify that.”
http://www.dailydot.com/politics/nsa...mic-appelbaum/
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Old Dec 30, 2013, 01:39 PM   #2
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I suspect they can access ANY phone including Blackberry.

I suspect they have had the ability and been doing this for years.
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Old Dec 30, 2013, 02:05 PM   #3
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Oh who cares. Unless you're a terrorist or a child molester/pornographer (in which case I hope you get caught), who cares if the government knows who and what you text?

I mean seriously.
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Old Dec 30, 2013, 02:07 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ender Wiggins View Post
Oh who cares. Unless you're a terrorist or a child molester/pornographer (in which case I hope you get caught), who cares if the government knows who and what you text?

I mean seriously.
Because it sets up the path of basically the government controlling us.

Terrorists and Child molesters today, anyone who says anything remotely bad about the government tomorrow.
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Old Dec 30, 2013, 02:14 PM   #5
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The only way to defeat the NSA is to go back to the stone ages.
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Old Dec 30, 2013, 02:14 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ender Wiggins View Post
Oh who cares. Unless you're a terrorist or a child molester/pornographer (in which case I hope you get caught), who cares if the government knows who and what you text?

I mean seriously.
It *could* be benign now, but it is opening the door to even more intrusiveness and probably isn't if the last 100 years are any guide. Have you seen how the Nixon Whitehouse used the IRS to harass opponents? How the Obama Whitehouse used the IRS to harass opponents? Kennedy used the IRS to do so? How the FBI targeted MLK? How the FBI targeted people protested the DNC in Chicago, and then the IRS did? Targeting the NAACP in 2004? A clear pattern of audits of groups between 1992 and 1997 against opponents?

There is a huge history of data being gathered and then abused. Do you really want everything you ever say or do, every place you go recorded and available to have someone look up some time? If you have read the book "Three Felonies A Day" it shows that on average an American commits three felonies PER DAY! How about selective enforcement if you become a problem?

It is straight out of 1984! Anyone who cares about freedom and the Constitution should care.
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Old Dec 30, 2013, 02:16 PM   #7
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I do nothing suspecting on my phone and I'm also not paranoid about the government monitoring us for suspected terror. I'm sure you've heard the saying big brothers always watching, did you think that it was a joke or something?
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Old Dec 30, 2013, 02:29 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ender Wiggins View Post
Oh who cares. Unless you're a terrorist or a child molester/pornographer (in which case I hope you get caught), who cares if the government knows who and what you text?

I mean seriously.
1984. George Orwell. Good book (last I saw it, it was required reading material in high school). Wikipedia for it.. no, I take that back. READ IT, then revisit your post.

BL.
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Old Dec 30, 2013, 02:46 PM   #9
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Spyware can easily be erased with a restore, just a couple of clicks away. Shame on you NSA, I would expect hardware spying methods by now.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradl View Post
1984. George Orwell. Good book (last I saw it, it was required reading material in high school). Wikipedia for it.. no, I take that back. READ IT, then revisit your post.

BL.
1984 was written in a time when imagination couldn't get as far as technology will in the years to come. A chip in the brain and BOOM! No any other stuff needed.

I'm pretty sure that I'll see -during my lifetime- approved laws that make any new born to have a chip installed.
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Old Dec 30, 2013, 02:47 PM   #10
Patrick J
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The NSA has nearly complete backdoor access to the iPhone

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-940994.html

Specifically regarding iPhone: http://www.cultofmac.com/260213/nsa-...ccess-iphones/

As if this comes as a surprise. Wonder if Apple is pearly white here? Would be nice to get an explanation from Cook.

Is this version dependant? iOS6 or 5 safer?

Will they patch this as fast as they patch the jailbreaks? It's basically another jailbreak to gain root access; unless Apple are providing the artifices for a door.

Discuss..
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Old Dec 30, 2013, 02:48 PM   #11
bradl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick J View Post
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-940994.html

Specifically regarding iPhone: http://www.cultofmac.com/260213/nsa-...ccess-iphones/

As if this comes as a surprise. Wonder if Apple is pearly white here? Would be nice to get an explanation from Cook. Will they patch this as fix as they patch the jailbreaks? It's basically another jailbreak to gain root access; unless Apple are providing the artifices for a door.

Discuss..
Already covered in PRSI:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1690403

BL.
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Old Dec 30, 2013, 02:49 PM   #12
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Unless I'm imagining something, did someone not post this literally like an hour ago? I'm guessing it has been deleted as I cannot see it anymore...

EDIT: Bradl has answered my question above.
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Old Dec 30, 2013, 02:51 PM   #13
Patrick J
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by virginblue4 View Post
Unless I'm imagining something, did someone not post this literally like an hour ago? I'm guessing it has been deleted as I cannot see it anymore...

EDIT: Bradl above answered my question.
Appears the mods want to keep this relatively hidden in the RPSI forum. My thread was moved within 10 seconds out of sight.
No one sees stuff here compared to in the iPhone forum.

Any comment mods?

Also, I can't see how iPhone backdoor hacking is a Political, Religious or Social Issue. Why doesn't this thread belong in the iOS 7 forum/iPhone forum?
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Old Dec 30, 2013, 02:53 PM   #14
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None of this matters. This whole NSA thing gave some people the impression that all of a sudden they became a target on some government list. A supreme court judge ruled last week that there is no evidence that NSA is abusing this power.

Would I want a potential backdoor in my phone? Probably not. Could the enemies of the United States potentially use iPhones? Sure.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrf097 View Post
Because it sets up the path of basically the government controlling us.

Terrorists and Child molesters today, anyone who says anything remotely bad about the government tomorrow.
This is the typical Alex Jones mentality. It's taking something completely out of context on the belief that the NWO is about to unveil their master plans and take over the world.

Until there is actual evidence to suggest that, don't take things too seriously on the internet.

In reality the NSA's primary objective is code breaking and geo-political surveillance.

With the amount of new immigrants coming into the country these days are you really surprised?
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Old Dec 30, 2013, 02:54 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dasx View Post
Spyware can easily be erased with a restore, just a couple of clicks away. Shame on you NSA, I would expect hardware spying methods by now.

----------



1984 was written in a time when imagination couldn't get as far as technology will in the years to come. A chip in the brain and BOOM! No any other stuff needed.

I'm pretty sure that I'll see -during my lifetime- approved laws that make any new born to have a chip installed.
Perhaps, but it doesn't take away the fact that just because one may not have a problem with it doesn't mean that one should not care about it.

that same disillusioned stance was taken in the early 200s after the Patriot Act was passed, along with warrant-less wiretapping. The premise was "if you're not doing anything illegal, you shouldn't care about it".

Yet Ben Franklin surmised it perfectly about giving up security for safety, let alone giving up his rights under the 4th Amendment.

But then again, if he doesn't care about his Constitutional rights, perhaps he should renounce his citizenship.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick J View Post
Appears the mods want to keep this relatively hidden in the RPSI forum. My thread was moved within 10 seconds out of sight.
No one sees stuff here compared to in the iPhone forum.

Any comment mods?

Also, I can't see how iPhone backdoor hacking is a Political, Religious or Social Issue. Why doesn't this thread belong in the iOS 7 forum/iPhone forum?
4th Amendment to the United States Constitution

There's your answer.

BL.
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Old Dec 30, 2013, 02:57 PM   #16
Patrick J
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oplix View Post
None of this matters. This whole NSA thing gave some people the impression that all of a sudden they became a target on some government list. A supreme court judge ruled last week that there is no evidence that NSA is abusing this power.

Would I want a potential backdoor in my phone? Probably not. Could the enemies of the United States potentially use iPhones? Sure.
Wow, paid to spread disinformation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by oplix View Post
None of this matters
This matters immensely. This debate as a whole is the first and defining regarding internet privacy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oplix View Post
This whole NSA thing gave some people the impression that all of a sudden they became a target on some government list.
Well, that's exactly what happened. Spot on. A humungous and far overreaching list.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oplix View Post
A supreme court judge ruled last week that there is no evidence that NSA is abusing this power.
Previous court ruling indicated the NSA WAS abusing the power, and there are grounds for investigation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oplix View Post
Would I want a potential backdoor in my phone? Probably not. Could the enemies of the United States potentially use iPhones? Sure.
False dichotomy. There is no justification for being spied on for PRE-crime effects.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradl View Post
In this area we discuss the Political issue.

I wanted to talk about the technical issue of the backdoor, which does not belong in the PRSI forum.
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Old Dec 30, 2013, 02:57 PM   #17
oplix
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Originally Posted by Patrick J View Post
Wow, paid to spread disinformation?


This matters immensely. This debate is the first and defining regarding internet privacy.


Well, that's exactly what happened. Spot on. A humungous and far overreaching list.


Previous court ruling indicated the NSA WAS abusing the power, and there are grounds for investigation. Supreme Court decision will be taken.

False dichotomy. There is no justification for being spied on for PRE-crime effects.
Internet privacy? How old are you? Your perspective on things seems pretty naive. The only reason for a nobody like me or you to be concerned with internet privacy when it comes to government surveillance is that if me or you are actually doing illegal things that could lead to criminal charges.
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Last edited by oplix; Dec 30, 2013 at 03:02 PM.
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Old Dec 30, 2013, 03:02 PM   #18
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Internet privacy? How old are you? Your perspective on things seems pretty naive. The only reason for a nobody like me or you to be concerned with internet privacy when it comes to government surveillance is that if me or you are actually doing illegal things would could lead to criminal charges.
Just as I believe sending a letter should guarantee you a safe and confidential message delivery to someone of your choosing, I believe that the extremely diluted "spying due to reasonable cause of concern" is way out of control. All email is being saved (not "read"), SMSs, everything we do on the internet.

If this is a law enforcement technique, by all means let's work out some boundaries.

I think at the moment this whole spying infrastructure could be far too easily turned into a political blackmail machine.
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Old Dec 30, 2013, 03:03 PM   #19
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Just as I believe sending a letter should guarantee you a safe and confidential message delivery to someone of your choosing, I believe that the extremely diluted "spying due to reasonable cause of concern" is way out of control.

If this is a law enforcement technique, by all means let's work out some boundaries.

I think at the moment this whole spying infrastructure could be far too easily turned into a political blackmail machine.
The problem is that you are living in a "could happen" reality. Start living in the actual reality and forget about things that could happen. You are wasting your time. You are going to put yourself in a "everybody is out to get me" corner.

If you want a real perspective on these issues then look into basic geopolitics.
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Old Dec 30, 2013, 03:04 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick J View Post
Previous court ruling indicated the NSA WAS abusing the power, and there are grounds for investigation.

False dichotomy. There is no justification for being spied on for PRE-crime effects.[COLOR="#808080"]
Agreed. There is no justification. So why has it been occurring since this "war on terror" started some 12 years ago? And why the outrage now, when that outrage also should have been going on for the past 12 years?

Quote:
I wanted to talk about the technical issue of the backdoor, which does not belong in the PRSI forum.
You may want to start a new thread with that mentioned in the title, not just everything as a whole. Otherwise, it gets what it deserves, which is merged into this thread. You will have a very hard time trying to separate the two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oplix View Post
The problem is that you are living in a "could happen" reality. Start living in the actual reality and forget about things that could happen. You are wasting your time. You are going to put yourself in a "everybody is out to get me" corner.
Minority Report. Philip K. Dick. Another good story worth reading.

BL.
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Old Dec 30, 2013, 03:05 PM   #21
Patrick J
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The problem is that you are living in a "could happen" reality. Start living in the actual reality and forget about things that could happen. You are wasting your time.
No shame in bringing up something for discussion in which I believe in, and exchanging points of view on this subject.

Thank you for your opinions which help drove this discussion.
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Old Dec 30, 2013, 03:06 PM   #22
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1984. George Orwell. Good book (last I saw it, it was required reading material in high school). Wikipedia for it.. no, I take that back. READ IT, then revisit your post.

BL.
Orwell often said 1984 was not about Stalin Russian, but so-called democracy.

People should also read Robert Michels' "Political Parties", which predicted the outcome of the United States way back in 1911. The "iron law of oligarchy" is spot on in describing what would happen when government grows to the point where the people and vote can no longer control the bureaucracies that are allegedly there for their benefit.
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Old Dec 30, 2013, 03:08 PM   #23
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Because it sets up the path of basically the government controlling us.

Terrorists and Child molesters today, anyone who says anything remotely bad about the government tomorrow.
Exactly. It's creepy as hell, but so long as none of us are terrorists or pedophiles, we don't have that much to worry about.

...do we?

The worst thing about it is the future potential for abuse. You could pretty much label anyone a terrorist if you wanted to. Right now, we narrowly define it as people wanting to blow up this, that, or the other for political reasons. But what about tomorrow? What if things go down hill considerably over the next couple of decades, and we get an administration that doesn't tolerate any objections to their policies and actions? They could label people speaking out against them as enemies of the state, and they'd have a system already in place that's perfectly tailored to tracking down anyone they want based on what they say and who they talk to.

...and who the people they talk to talk to. And the people they talk to talk to. And so on, and so on...

It's a system that doesn't have to consider accountability for anything it does. No checks. No balances. It's run and administrated entirely in secret, and only has to answer to itself. It is, in short, a system just waiting to be abused.

No, I'm not afraid of it now. But I'm afraid of the slippery slope that it's bound to become.
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Old Dec 30, 2013, 03:16 PM   #24
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No, I'm not afraid of it now. But I'm afraid of the slippery slope that it's bound to become.
We are way beyond slippery slope.

It's already be said that NSA flunkies were using their tools to spy on spouses, girlfriends, ex's and celebrities. All with no oversight.

Your entire list of thoughts and associations are now on display for evaluation and approval by the state. They don't like your musings, you could easily end up on some watch list or worse.
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Old Dec 30, 2013, 03:17 PM   #25
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Are there any legitimate tech sources with this information or is this just some random fear mongering from a random blog?


It's pretty well known at this point that the NSA is collecting and archiving all communications sent over the internet & cell networks in the USA.


But it's pretty hard to believe that the NSA is actually physically installing spyware to collect data on these devices. The scale of a program like that would be so massive this would not be the first time we'd be hearing about it.
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