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Old Jan 6, 2014, 07:02 PM   #1
Sydde
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Do we need days off?

This might be an interesting topic for discussion

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Originally Posted by Think Progress (link)
Wisconsin state Sen. Glenn Grothman (R) is pushing to undo the state’s law that employers have to provide their employees with at least one day off a week, the Huffington Post reports.

Wisconsin is somewhat unique in having the law on its books. “Right now in Wisconsin, you’re not supposed to work seven days in a row, which is a little ridiculous because all sorts of people want to work seven days a week,” Grothman told The Huffington Post. But workers don’t have to get a day off every seven days, as they could work for up to 12 in a row “if the days of rest fall on the first and last days of the 2 week period,” according to the law. Grothman called the law “goofy” and called undoing it a matter of “freedom.”

While he argues that the law would ease workers’ ability to work overtime, it’s possible that employers would force their employees to work the extra time, making it less than voluntary. “It’s a very hard thing to know whether something is truly voluntary or not,” Vice President of the Economic Policy Institute Ross Eisenbrey told the Huffington Post.

In fact, the power usually lies with employers and instances of them abusing labor laws are already on the rise. In 2009, two-thirds of low-income workers said they had experienced a wage law violation in the previous week alone. Wage theft, where an employer illegally withholds overtime pay or makes its employees work off the clock, robs low-wage workers of more money than is stolen from banks, gas stations and convenience stores combined. Actions filed in federal court alleging wage and hour violations increased by 400 percent between 2000 and 2011.
I should be interested to hear some arguments in favor of this that do not sound like glibertarian blather.
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Old Jan 6, 2014, 07:09 PM   #2
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Old Jan 6, 2014, 07:14 PM   #3
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I was going to reply in depth, but it's my day off.
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Old Jan 6, 2014, 07:20 PM   #4
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Anyone remember watching the "Life is Great in the U.S." propaganda films back in the 1950s that promised we'd have a four-day work week "any day now"?
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Old Jan 6, 2014, 07:22 PM   #5
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As someone who once worked a job that was 12 hours a day, 7 days a week (no days off for those who aren't counting) you DO need days off.

Here's what happens:

Working with no break makes people start to get nasty and hate the people they work with, seeing them every day with no break.

You can't get anything done like appointments, or shopping, or any of the usual stuff you do on a day off.

Your personal life is obliterated. Forget dating, and family time, you work, and are exhausted.

It's not worth it and there's nothing but selfishness and greed oozing from this politician. "Attack on freedom" my ass. If anything we should be working LESS than what we do.
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Old Jan 6, 2014, 08:17 PM   #6
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I find the American and Canadian working conditions pretty scary. When I worked for a cell phone provider back in Germany in the late 90s we had a 5 day / 38 hour week but I usually worked 8 hours a day instead of 7.6. I loved it, the few extra minutes per day gave me a day off every 4 weeks. Additional to that we had 30 vacation days and then the usual holidays. With a bit of overtime here and there it felt like I was off work almost once a week... we all were a pretty happy and positive crowd...lol. ...and then I came to Canada ....
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Old Jan 6, 2014, 08:56 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrono1081 View Post
As someone who once worked a job that was 12 hours a day, 7 days a week (no days off for those who aren't counting) you DO need days off. .
Been there done that. It's why I left Big Blue and went out on my own, however I can't blame Big Blue totally for that 4 month period, we were super understaffed, and finding people with our skillset can be tricky.

That being said, I have 7 people working for me, I would NEVER ask them to put in 7 days a week.

Quote:
Working with no break makes people start to get nasty and hate the people they work with, seeing them every day with no break.
Yep, it got pretty bad after awhile, and my office starting smelling bad lol.

Quote:
You can't get anything done like appointments, or shopping, or any of the usual stuff you do on a day off.

Your personal life is obliterated. Forget dating, and family time, you work, and are exhausted.
All of the above are totally true, it nearly destroyed my relationship and killed my will to live.

Quote:
It's not worth it and there's nothing but selfishness and greed oozing from this politician. "Attack on freedom" my ass. If anything we should be working LESS than what we do.
Butt Butt butt butttttt what about the owners profits?! Do you not like freedom!?

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by dec. View Post
I find the American and Canadian working conditions pretty scary. When I worked for a cell phone provider back in Germany in the late 90s we had a 5 day / 38 hour week but I usually worked 8 hours a day instead of 7.6. I loved it, the few extra minutes per day gave me a day off every 4 weeks. Additional to that we had 30 vacation days and then the usual holidays. With a bit of overtime here and there it felt like I was off work almost once a week... we all were a pretty happy and positive crowd...lol. ...and then I came to Canada ....
Conditions in America are even worse than Canada. Americans work the most days, longest hours in the first world. Get the least days off, least vacation, least benefits, and stagnating pay.

Go Murica!

I think that this has something to do with American culture, whic his " If you don't work yourself to death, your a moocher, weak, and going to hell "
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Old Jan 6, 2014, 09:09 PM   #8
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It is my understanding that the original purpose of a "day off" was so that people could attend church on Sundays. Eventually Saturday was added to what we now call the weekend so that Jews could similarly observe their day of rest*. Now I have to chuckle a bit at the fact that a Republican is trying to get rid of something that was, and for some people still is, a time dedicated to religious ceremony.

*Though technically the Sabbath is on Friday, it, like all Jewish holidays, starts at sundown and ends at sundown the next day.
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Old Jan 6, 2014, 09:23 PM   #9
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It is widely recognized that working too many hours per week eventually causes output to decrease. The only question is where that threshold is reached. Even back in the bad old days of hyperactive industrialization few worked more than 72 hours/week. (e.g. 2 shifts per day for 6 days).

40 hours per week was seen as the sweet spot for a long time. You need to work a certain number of hours per week to ramp up to your most productive, so, there is a minimum as well.

Here is a discussion:

http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/qu...ess-productive

My guess is that peak output happens at about 50 hours per week for many computer-related jobs. I've known quite a few people over the years who bragged about 60-70 hour weeks. First of all, many of them don't seem very healthy. But, beyond that, they just go to the bank and post office and etc. during the middle of the day. Who is going to complain about it if they are "working" 12 hour days 6 days a week? So, they aren't really working that many more hours after all. But, I have seen some people work 50 hour weeks 50 weeks a year for a decade at a time. Some people have the stamina to do it. I used to, but, don't any more.

I'm sure management and HR in these companies know all this, but, permit or encourage the 60-70 hour week thing as some sort of bonding exercise, like basic training in the military. I guess it is OK if you are young and don't have a life, as long as it doesn't go on too long.
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Old Jan 6, 2014, 10:10 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnpy!$4g3cwk View Post
I've known quite a few people over the years who bragged about 60-70 hour weeks. First of all, many of them don't seem very healthy. But, I have seen some people work 50 hour weeks 50 weeks a year for a decade at a time. Some people have the stamina to do it. I used to, but, don't any more.
Most of the people I've known who brag about their really long hours or who seem to want to work really long hours, even if they aren't doing anything really important, are those who don't have much else going on in life. Work fills a void. Usually, the phrase "I get bored if I'm not working" is in there somewhere.

One thing I will never be is "bored" while not working. I have so many damn things I want to do that I could take five years off and barely scratch the surface. Work just gets in the way and funds those things.
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Old Jan 7, 2014, 06:10 AM   #11
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A person is not a job, and a job is not a person. If we want to boost employment, then we should be reducing working hours and moving to a fully 24/7 economy.
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Old Jan 7, 2014, 07:25 AM   #12
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Sure...with 4 weeks or more vacation a year with a vacation protection clause that says you cant be fired for a period of one month after taking vacation time.
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Old Jan 7, 2014, 07:40 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by APlotdevice View Post
It is my understanding that the original purpose of a "day off" was so that people could attend church on Sundays. Eventually Saturday was added to what we now call the weekend so that Jews could similarly observe their day of rest*. Now I have to chuckle a bit at the fact that a Republican is trying to get rid of something that was, and for some people still is, a time dedicated to religious ceremony.

*Though technically the Sabbath is on Friday, it, like all Jewish holidays, starts at sundown and ends at sundown the next day.
I know I'm somewhat surprised that some people here aren't supporting this as a way to stop making employers shove religion onto their employees by making them take a day off to rest...
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Old Jan 7, 2014, 08:44 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dec. View Post
I find the American and Canadian working conditions pretty scary. When I worked for a cell phone provider back in Germany in the late 90s we had a 5 day / 38 hour week but I usually worked 8 hours a day instead of 7.6. I loved it, the few extra minutes per day gave me a day off every 4 weeks. Additional to that we had 30 vacation days and then the usual holidays. With a bit of overtime here and there it felt like I was off work almost once a week... we all were a pretty happy and positive crowd...lol. ...and then I came to Canada ....
Come back here..

==========

I've worked 100hr weeks I've worked 25hr weeks and done the Army thing. 60 is about as much as I am willing to work anymore and not on a regular basis. I was always told the idea is to make more money working less hours and that remains my goal.
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Old Jan 7, 2014, 08:46 AM   #15
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Quote:
Wisconsin state Sen. Glenn Grothman (R) is pushing to undo the state’s law that employers have to provide their employees with at least one day off a week, the Huffington Post reports.
He read Charles Dickens and also suggested we bring back debtor's prison. Just another reason why we don't want today's GOP (which should be WIC: Where Idiocy is Celebrated) anywhere near government.
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Old Jan 7, 2014, 08:58 AM   #16
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Gee, everybody I know wants to work 24/7/365.

On days off you just waste time messing about with your family and friends. What an appalling waste of time...having a life!

I'm sure, on my deathbed, my last words will be...I just wish I had spent more time at work!


<----Please note!
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Old Jan 7, 2014, 09:33 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrink View Post
Gee, everybody I know wants to work 24/7/365.

On days off you just waste time messing about with your family and friends. What an appalling waste of time...having a life!

I'm sure, on my deathbed, my last words will be...I just wish I had spent more time at work!


<----Please note!
I believe the following post specifies a 24/7 economy, not a 24/7 work-week. That could still be achieved with rotating shift work, at less hours per but with more people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VulchR View Post
A person is not a job, and a job is not a person. If we want to boost employment, then we should be reducing working hours and moving to a fully 24/7 economy.
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Old Jan 7, 2014, 09:49 AM   #18
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Not going to lie, I've had to work 6 days on and 1 day off and this pretty much describes my experience:

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Old Jan 7, 2014, 10:06 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Zombie Acorn View Post
Not going to lie, I've had to work 6 days on and 1 day off and this pretty much describes my experience:

Image
Very grim being reduced to a psychotic stick person... All work and no play makes Johnny/Janey psychotic.
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Old Jan 7, 2014, 11:01 AM   #20
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It's too bad Henry Ford understood what people cannot seem to grasp now:

"It is high time to rid ourselves of the notion that leisure for workmen is either 'lost time' or a class privilege."

Yes, we need time off. No, I don't believe the government should have to tell companies that.
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Old Jan 7, 2014, 11:06 AM   #21
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It's too bad Henry Ford understood what people cannot seem to grasp now:

"It is high time to rid ourselves of the notion that leisure for workmen is either 'lost time' or a class privilege."

Yes, we need time off. No, I don't believe the government should have to tell companies that.
They shouldn't have to, but with the complete disregard the corporate world has for everything except profits & CEO country club memberships, it's necessary.
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Old Jan 7, 2014, 11:13 AM   #22
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They shouldn't have to, but with the complete disregard the corporate world has for everything except profits & CEO country club memberships, it's necessary.
I agree. This issue is magnified by unemployment levels. There just aren't as many jobs.
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Old Jan 7, 2014, 12:02 PM   #23
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Reminds me of this story.

Quote:
Originally posted by: Someone who had it all figured out

A businessman was at the pier of a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the boat were several large yellowfin tuna. The businessman complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them.

The Mexican replied "only a little while".

The businessman asked why he didn’t stay out longer and catch more? The Mexican said he had enough to support his family’s needs. The businessman then asked, "But what do you do with the rest of your time?" The Mexican fisherman said, “I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take a siesta, stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine with my amigos; I have a full and busy life, señor.”

The businessman scoffed, “I am a Harvard MBA and I could help you. You should spend more time fishing and with the proceeds buy a bigger boat. With the proceeds from the bigger boat you could buy several boats; eventually you would have a fleet.

The fisherman asked, “But señor, how long will this all take?” To which the businessman replied, “15-20 years.” “But what then, señor?” The businessman laughed and said, “That’s the best part! When the time is right you sell your fleet and become very rich.” Then what?” The businessman said, “Then you retire and move to a small fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take a siesta, stroll to the village in the evenings and sip wine with your amigos.”

The fisherman, still smiling, looked up and said, “Isn’t that what I’m doing right now?”
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Old Jan 7, 2014, 12:13 PM   #24
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I agree. This issue is magnified by unemployment levels. There just aren't as many jobs.
And the "job creators" have no incentives to create more jobs.

Less jobs means increased competition for those jobs. It also means an employee can easily be replaced if they complain/want too much money/want time off/refuse to work 90 hours a week/etc etc.

The employers have too much power over employees in this country.
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Old Jan 7, 2014, 12:14 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arran View Post
Reminds me of this story.
That's a good story.

I think many Europeans have an all around better idea about balancing work.

Germany: 24 paid vacation days + 10 paid holidays

France: 30 paid vacation days + 8 paid holidays.

USA: The Federal Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 carries no requirements for any paid vacation time. And you are lucky to get even Xmas off these days.

You need to rest, and it doesn't have to mean your economy becomes like Mexico as a result.
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