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Old Dec 27, 2005, 06:01 PM   #1
Neo-Maikeru
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Should I return my new Powerbook 15?

Just before I walked out of the door the other day to buy a Powerbook I read the thread on this forum talking about the horizontal line problem with many of the new revision of the Powerbook 15. After reading I was a bit more cautious before buying my laptop at the Apple Store. I looked at all three Powerbook's side by side up close and couldn't see much of a line problem with any of them. I was expecting much worse after reading all of the commotion stirred up on various forums. I ended up buying a Powerbook 15 and love the design, OS, etc.(This is my first Mac). Now that I have this "horizontal line" thing in my head though I always look for lines when I view any photo and it is annoying me quite a bit, I dont want to be even debating this in my head, lol. It is hindering my enjoyment even though I am not even sure if my monitor has a problem or not just by knowing that mine may have the problem. If I have my face pratically touching the screen I can see some lines but the same goes for many LCD displays that I look at up close. I really love the laptop and wish that I never read about the problem because I doubt that I would ever notice anything or look for anything of the sort otherwise. I really do not want to return it since I am not sure if the rep will even see the lines since I am not sure about them myself, and will more than likely charge me a re-stocking fee. I also have Apple Care for it and I am not sure if I can transfer that to a new Powerbook if I decided to exchange for a different one. My other problem is that I need a laptop now, I love the 15, the 17 is too big, and the 12 is too underpowered.

Point is...I can't wait longer for new models, I love the 15, and I wish I never read about the line issues since I would be not bouncing back and forth about this issue in my head for hours.
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Old Dec 27, 2005, 06:10 PM   #2
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I think you should stop being so paranoid about the lines thing and enjoy your new pbook.

I've heard that the ordeal is being blown out of proportion anyway so I wouldn't worry too much about it.
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Old Dec 27, 2005, 06:21 PM   #3
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Don't worry about it and enjoy your computer.
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Old Dec 27, 2005, 06:22 PM   #4
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I just decided to keep mine. The line issue I don't think was blown out of proportion, but perhaps calling the computer a "POS" because of it was a little excessive. It only bothers me when I'm looking at it, and with a little contrast/color manipulation it can be lessened a bit. I'm of course hoping there will be some "fix" in the future, but for now, it wasn't worth it for me to return it.
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Old Dec 27, 2005, 06:25 PM   #5
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If it was me I would keep it, especially because Im not to sure how the applecare works, it could end up being a huge headache if you decide to return it. Just have fun with it and don't worry about what Steve has up his sleeve (I know, easier said than done)
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Old Dec 27, 2005, 06:26 PM   #6
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I could return it and get a 12 inch one but I am not even sure if the rep's there will be able to see the lines, I mean you have to be VERY anal to see them, I am not even sure if mine has them or not. The 12 is nice too and maybe better for me since I move around a lot but the thing that turns me off is the graphics card and the hotter surface.
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Old Dec 27, 2005, 06:43 PM   #7
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I would stick to the PowerBook you have currently. If can't see the lines from a normal usage distance then taking it back to Apple will only cause you headaches and a bad reputation on your part of Apple. The 15" PowerBook has a lot of nice features that the 12" PB doesn't have like a better graphics, backlit keyboard, thinner, faster CPU, more HD space, etc... If you get a 12" PowerBook, you're basically getting a 12" iBook in an aluminum case as they pretty much have the same specs.
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Old Dec 27, 2005, 07:50 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-Maikeru
I am not even sure if mine has them or not
Is there at least one of the voices in your head telling you to keep the 15-incher? Because that's what you should do, and start enjoying it like Daedalus256 posted. No-Brainer!!
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Old Dec 27, 2005, 08:05 PM   #9
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no, keep it...you will regret not having it. Get attached to it...BTW, 1st gen intels wont be out till summer, and they will be faulty first gens....yours is the most refined powerbook made...the last gen
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Old Dec 27, 2005, 08:40 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pianodude123
....yours is the most refined powerbook made...the last gen
the most refined with the worst screen
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Old Dec 27, 2005, 08:52 PM   #11
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the most refined with the worst screen
Id say the white spots on the first 15 inch Al was worse.
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Old Dec 27, 2005, 09:47 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-Maikeru
If I have my face pratically touching the screen I can see some lines but the same goes for many LCD displays that I look at up close.
The quoted excerpt is the key point here ... if one has to be that close to the screen for the problem to even be detectable, you are doing yourself a major disservice by continuing to fret over the issue.

I'll agree that others have pointed this out for a reason, but you are allowing yourself to be unduly influenced by prior messages you've read. Bottom line: It seems to clearly fall within your personal comfort zone and you concede that other LCD's would yield a similar faint line. It would be best to make peace with it and enjoy your PB to the maximum.
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Old Dec 27, 2005, 10:33 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacNut
Id say the white spots on the first 15 inch Al was worse.
True, didn't Apple fix that though?
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Old Dec 27, 2005, 10:57 PM   #14
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Well I ended up returning it tonite. I am just going to wait for a while and see if Apple fixes it in a new release or something. I would hate to have had it past the return date, only to see that a new version of the 15 is released with a better screen. The apple guy told me that when he looked the problem up on apple he said he saw a message stating that "apple is working on the issue" so hopefully there will be a new screen put in them soon. If no screen fix comes though I will most likely just get another 15, the lines didn't bother me much it was just that once they were pointed out to me every time I looked at the screen I got mad since I dropped $2,000+ on the machine. I hope it all works out for me soon.
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Old Dec 27, 2005, 11:04 PM   #15
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Ok first off, if Apple was aware of the problem Im sure they would of fixed it for you just like they did with the spots on the al books. Second if you were not bothered by the lines why did you let others get you upset over them, if it was that much of an issue it must of bothered you. It might be a while before Apple fixes the issue and even longer before you see Intel books so if that is what you are hopping for you will have a long wait.
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Old Dec 27, 2005, 11:42 PM   #16
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Definately just enjoy your PowerBook. As with all uniform screen anormalities (lines in a Trinitron, etc) you'll get used to it after a while (at least in my experience.)
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Old Dec 27, 2005, 11:49 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-Maikeru
The apple guy told me that when he looked the problem up on apple he said he saw a message stating that "apple is working on the issue"
Looking into it is fine, but has Apple ever acknowledged publicly that there is a problem with the lines on some 15" PB screens?
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Old Dec 27, 2005, 11:51 PM   #18
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What happens to PB returns?

A thought that has been bugging me, since there apparently has been a considerable number of 15"PBs returned for refund or exchange; NOT "repaired". What happens to those retained PBs by Apple?

Are they recycled for parts, held for a possible future fix then resold as a "Refurbished, or I dread saying this: cleaned-up & repackaged as new?

Anybody have specific Apple policy knowledge? Have not seen this matter mentioned anywhere in the forums.



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Old Dec 28, 2005, 12:01 AM   #19
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Just wondering about something with your powerbook.

When did you get it? Im assuming it was opened (since you saw the screen) so was there a restocking fee? How long is the return period?
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Old Dec 28, 2005, 12:01 AM   #20
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God not again delete this please... I really need to get use to this iBooks mouse button. Sorry
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Old Dec 28, 2005, 12:13 AM   #21
Neo-Maikeru
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Originally Posted by runninmac
Just wondering about something with your powerbook.

When did you get it? Im assuming it was opened (since you saw the screen) so was there a restocking fee? How long is the return period?
I just got my Powerbook on December 26th(yesterday). It was opened but there was no restocking fee that I had to pay. The apple "genius" inspected my powerbook and I showed him a few pictures posted here that pointed out the horizontal line problem. He then looked at other 15's in the store on display to compare with mine and said something like "I see this problem in all of our 15's, its because we use different screens, I wouldn't call this a defect since it is not only your screen but the entire line of new rev. Powerbook 15's. I think you will still need to pay the restocking fee because your Powerbook 15 is no different from the other Powerbook 15's." There was no way I was going to pay a restocking fee to Apple for this though so I just acted a bit frustrated and talked to him some more and he got the manager to wave the restocking fee for me. The manager was awsome, she even let me return my apple care even though the box was open(though not activated yet). I got very lucky that I found a store full of nice and understanding employees.

I found that the best picture for displaying the line issue is the black and white line pic posted in an earlier thread here. Just showing them the blue apple default desktop probably will not do it for them since the lines are very subtle and hard to notice against it in my opinion. The black and white stripe picture clearly shows how every other row of pixels is lighter than the other.

Edit: Here is the picture I used: http://www.cameraid.com/art/quadrants.gif

Notice how the bottom two squares look the same but the top two look different from each other while viewing them on most a new-rev. Powerbook 15's. The reason for this is because the top left square has the black row of pixels one row above the black row of pixels on the top right square. This shows how every other row of pixels is a bit brighter which is what makes these lines from my understanding. I never noticed the lines until I looked at this picture on my now returned Powerbook 15 and then on my brother in law's new Dell LCD. It made the problem pretty evident.

Last edited by Neo-Maikeru; Dec 28, 2005 at 12:20 AM.
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Old Dec 28, 2005, 12:13 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by runninmac
When did you get it? Im assuming it was opened (since you saw the screen) so was there a restocking fee? How long is the return period?
Not sure as to the restocking fee and return policy, but his original post was dated 12-27-05 and he began by saying that he bought it a few days prior. Since he did return it yesterday, it was probably 3-4 days old.
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Old Dec 28, 2005, 12:24 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Neo-Maikeru
... he got the manager to wave the restocking fee for me. The manager was awsome, she even let me return my apple care even though the box was open (though not activated yet).
It is good your situation ended the way it did because I have overheard people facing that same restocking fee getting into lengthy and sometimes vocal discussions with store employees, and some did not fare as well as you. Hope your next PB turns out to be pixel perfect.
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Old Dec 28, 2005, 12:32 AM   #24
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It is good your situation ended the way it did because I have overheard people facing that same restocking fee getting into lengthy and sometimes vocal discussions with store employees, and some did not fare as well as you. Hope your next PB turns out to be pixel perfect.
I am pretty sure that anything bought from one Apple Store can be returned to another. If one store doesn't work for someone there are always other stores to try out. If anyone is in San Diego the store I went to was the Apple Store in the UNC Mall right near Scrips Hospital. Great people in there. I was a bit worried at first after the tech guy there told me I would probably need to pay a restocking fee but I the manager in there saw my problem and was great about it. It is a shame I do not know her name since I know there are probably multiple managers in there.

As for me at the moment I am computerless. I do not want to get another 15 since I know it will probably have the same problem and I got pretty lucky being able to return it this first time and all w.o much hassle. School does not start for me until January 7th though so I do not need a new laptop quite yet. I can manage to use the library computers until some announcements are made.

Last edited by Neo-Maikeru; Dec 28, 2005 at 12:37 AM.
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Old Dec 28, 2005, 12:44 AM   #25
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Neo,
This is exactly the way I've been feeling about my new 15" PB all week, ever since I unpacked it (I got mine 12/19)
I'm still debating whether to return it or not, but so far I really like the damn thing. The backlit keyboard is very nice, and the PB it's fast for what I do, and great resolution. Like you, I only see the lines if I get real close to the screen or pull up some pictures. Faces in pictures are generally easier to show the lines, but normal browsing, emailing, iTunes and such doesn't show any lines. I was even watching a movie last night on it and there were no visible lines at all.
I agree, that after reading about the horizontal lines issue it made me very paranoid, and from really craving this machine for months, now I have doubts on whether to keep it or not.
If I hadn't read about it, I would not have seen it or thought it was a problem. I'm thinking about keeping mine, but still haven't really made it "mine" 'cause I haven't copied all my stuff to it yet. I'm still using my iMac for most of my stuff (even typing this) but I got to get myself to use the PB more often.
I think I'm keeping mine but still a bit unsure. Why let other unhappy people ruin our moment?
Good luck with your decision.
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