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Old Jan 7, 2014, 11:12 PM   #1
jnpy!$4g3cwk
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Assault on Kansas public schools

The Koch brothers affiliates have been busy in Kansas:

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KANSAS, like every state, explicitly guarantees a free public education in its Constitution, affirming America’s founding belief that only an educated citizenry can preserve democracy and safeguard individual liberty and freedom.

And yet in recent years Kansas has become the epicenter of a new battle over the states’ obligation to adequately fund public education. Even though the state Constitution requires that it make “suitable provision” for financing public education, Gov. Sam Brownback and the Republican-led Legislature have made draconian cuts in school spending, leading to a lawsuit that now sits before the state Supreme Court.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/08/op...ml?ref=opinion


[Edit: "Koch brothers" removed from title because the Kochs are not mentioned directly in the quoted op-ed.]

Last edited by jnpy!$4g3cwk; Jan 8, 2014 at 12:08 PM.
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Old Jan 8, 2014, 12:13 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by jnpy!$4g3cwk View Post
The Koch brothers affiliates have been busy in Kansas:



http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/08/op...ml?ref=opinion
Why don't you link to a real news story, instead of an op ed article.
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Old Jan 8, 2014, 12:20 AM   #3
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What exactly does this have to do with the Koch Brothers?
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Old Jan 8, 2014, 07:20 AM   #4
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Hopefully the parents win the appeal, I was just getting out of high school when major cuts were going in, and being in a rural area we were already operating on a shoestring budget with schools closing left and right.

How Brownback can actively fight against education funding and stay elected is a mystery, what a piece of ****.
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Old Jan 8, 2014, 09:30 AM   #5
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It's all about the wasteful things government spends it's money on. From the conservative perspective, education appears to be one of those things, at least one of those easy targets that we should not be spending our my tax dollars on. This is right up the Koch Brother's alley.
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Old Jan 8, 2014, 09:48 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Huntn View Post
This is right up the Koch Brother's alley.
Even so, as the Koch brothers are specified in the thread title, it would be nice to see them referenced in some way in the links provided.

Otherwise the OP is just editorializing.
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Old Jan 8, 2014, 09:58 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by iJohnHenry View Post
Even so, as the Koch brothers are specified in the thread title, it would be nice to see them referenced in some way in the links provided.

Otherwise the OP is just editorializing.
True... but it is ok to speculate, if you say that, like I did in so many words.
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Old Jan 8, 2014, 10:04 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Huntn View Post
It's all about the wasteful things government spends it's money on. From the conservative perspective, education appears to be one of those things, at least one of those easy targets that we should not be spending our my tax dollars on. This is right up the Koch Brother's alley.
The problem is that it's not just the republicans. This latest thing is but in my state there was a democrat that ran on a platform of no educational cuts and educational cuts were the very first thing she did. Across the board. Not just lower ed. Cut college and University money also. Later on she revered the cuts to universities like U of M and Michigan State but left all the cuts for lower ed. And steadily cut each year after that. Now there is a republican in and he is still cutting the funding. It's killing our schools.
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Old Jan 8, 2014, 10:14 AM   #9
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The problem is that it's not just the republicans. This latest thing is but in my state there was a democrat that ran on a platform of no educational cuts and educational cuts were the very first thing she did. Across the board. Not just lower ed. Cut college and University money also. Later on she revered the cuts to universities like U of M and Michigan State but left all the cuts for lower ed. And steadily cut each year after that. Now there is a republican in and he is still cutting the funding. It's killing our schools.
The obvious solution is to round up a new batch of politicians. Sadly they reflect the populace who puts then into decision making positions. I don't have a solution for that.
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Old Jan 8, 2014, 12:07 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post
What exactly does this have to do with the Koch Brothers?
My apologies. I thought everyone knew how active the Koch-brothers-funded political organizations have been in Kansas in recent years.

Quote:
Morris, the president of the National Conference of State Legislatures which is holding its annual summit meeting in Chicago this week, said conservative groups including Americans for Prosperity, the Club for Growth, the Kansas Chamber of Commerce and Kansas Right to Life spent between $3 and 8 million.

Morris noted that the Koch brothers also helped fund the campaign, using Kansas as a testing ground for their ideas. "They said it will be an ultraconservative utopia," Morris said of the Kochs. "It depends on your definition of a utopia."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1757928.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by iJohnHenry View Post
Even so, as the Koch brothers are specified in the thread title, it would be nice to see them referenced in some way in the links provided.

Otherwise the OP is just editorializing.
My apologies; the connection appears to be "coincidental" as far as the op-ed is concerned, which is about the deliberate destruction of the public school system in Kansas by its duly-elected governor and legislature. That is the beauty of organizations like "Americans for Prosperity".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politic..._Koch_brothers
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Old Jan 8, 2014, 12:10 PM   #11
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If anyone wants further info into this, while the movie is a few years old it does a lot to show how this momentum came into place here. Plenty on Koch's funding of these destructive policies as well.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1323977/

America it really is time to wake up. Your corporations control you at almost every level whether you care to look into it or not.
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Old Jan 8, 2014, 10:15 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Huntn View Post
It's all about the wasteful things government spends it's money on. From the conservative perspective, education appears to be one of those things, at least one of those easy targets that we should not be spending our my tax dollars on. This is right up the Koch Brother's alley.

Ironic isn't it? Yet they (conservatives) would be among the first to claim that education is what's needed to bring an individual out of poverty. How can they be for something they claim to be against?


Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilQueen View Post
The problem is that it's not just the republicans. This latest thing is but in my state there was a democrat that ran on a platform of no educational cuts and educational cuts were the very first thing she did. Across the board. Not just lower ed. Cut college and University money also. Later on she revered the cuts to universities like U of M and Michigan State but left all the cuts for lower ed. And steadily cut each year after that. Now there is a republican in and he is still cutting the funding. It's killing our schools.

How is it that you're a conservative and it sounds like you're defending public schools? Doesn't that go against conservative ideology?
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Old Jan 8, 2014, 10:23 PM   #13
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Ironic isn't it? Yet they (conservatives) would be among the first to claim that education is what's needed to bring an individual out of poverty. How can they be for something they claim to be against?
Speaking out of both sides of mouth? Sure, it's important as long as I don't have to pay for it!
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Old Jan 8, 2014, 10:32 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Huntn View Post
Speaking out of both sides of mouth?

You know, I tried to speak out of both sides of my mouth at the same time and I found it nearly impossible to do.


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Originally Posted by Huntn View Post
Sure, it's important as long as I don't have to pay for it!

You know, this reminds me of that one friend we all have that always seems to stay silent when the check came after the meal and everyone else at the table is coughing up a few more dollars to cover that person's meal. Talk about a free ride.
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Old Jan 9, 2014, 02:33 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by EvilQueen View Post
The problem is that it's not just the republicans. This latest thing is but in my state there was a democrat that ran on a platform of no educational cuts and educational cuts were the very first thing she did. Across the board. Not just lower ed. Cut college and University money also. Later on she revered the cuts to universities like U of M and Michigan State but left all the cuts for lower ed. And steadily cut each year after that. Now there is a republican in and he is still cutting the funding. It's killing our schools.
Governor Granholm raised K-12 funding per student in '06. You're not very good with context so let me add the context.

"To be fair, Granholm often had little choice when cutting education funding. State law required her to order public education cuts when school aid revenues fell below projections, and she had to cut billions from all facets of state spending as Michigan slogged through a decade of economic hardship.

"A cut to education is a cut to the heart — to this heart," Granholm said in her first State of the State address. She was referring to a $127 million cut to public school spending she had to make within weeks of taking office in 2003.

Still, Granholm barely held the line on public education funding over her tenure, taking inflation into account. School districts saw increases in per-student payments only four of the eight years she was in office, while absorbing cuts in three years and staying even in one."

http://www.mlive.com/politics/index....t_gov_jen.html

Governor Granholm was handed a ****** sandwich and she did a pretty good job trying to rebuild the state while carrying a broke Detroit and dwindling population. For a lawyer shes a pretty good lady
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Old Jan 9, 2014, 08:06 AM   #16
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Governor Granholm raised K-12 funding per student in '06. You're not very good with context so let me add the context.

"To be fair, Granholm often had little choice when cutting education funding. State law required her to order public education cuts when school aid revenues fell below projections, and she had to cut billions from all facets of state spending as Michigan slogged through a decade of economic hardship.

"A cut to education is a cut to the heart — to this heart," Granholm said in her first State of the State address. She was referring to a $127 million cut to public school spending she had to make within weeks of taking office in 2003.

Still, Granholm barely held the line on public education funding over her tenure, taking inflation into account. School districts saw increases in per-student payments only four of the eight years she was in office, while absorbing cuts in three years and staying even in one."

http://www.mlive.com/politics/index....t_gov_jen.html

Governor Granholm was handed a ****** sandwich and she did a pretty good job trying to rebuild the state while carrying a broke Detroit and dwindling population. For a lawyer shes a pretty good lady
Thanks for this clarifying rebuttal. Most interesting how conservatives frame the world and it's problems.
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Old Jan 9, 2014, 09:09 AM   #17
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Thanks for this clarifying rebuttal.

Most interesting how conservatives frame the world and it's problems.
Words are tools for some, weapons for others.
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Old Jan 9, 2014, 10:58 AM   #18
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Governor Granholm raised K-12 funding per student in '06. You're not very good with context so let me add the context.
Funny how you stopped a little short in your quote...

It also said

Quote:
Still, Granholm barely held the line on public education funding over her tenure, taking inflation into account.
And it said she cut funding to schools for 4 of her 8 years.

Quote:
Granholm actually signed six separate budget bills on Friday, bringing the total to 15, which combine to allocate an overall $44 billion state budget. In this process, Granholm used her line-item veto 70 times to cut spending by a further $127 million. The largest of these vetoes was a $51.7 million cut for 39 school districts—mostly in southeastern Michigan
Quote:
The signings appeared to finalize massive cuts to public education averaging $292 per student for most of the state, and nearly twice as much in the 39 “high-spending” school districts.
Quote:
Kevin McLogan, a representative of the Michigan Parent Teacher Student Association (MPTSA), told the World Socialist Web Site the cuts would be “devastating.”

“A lot of terrible things are going to happen,” he said. “There are a lot of districts that are already in tough shape. They will be pushed to the edge of receivership.”

“For other schools, there will be lot of cutting around the edges,” he continued. “They will curtail busing, after-school programs, community education and alternative education. Some districts will increase the amount of kids in the classroom, institute shorter school years, and force teachers to buy more of their own supplies.”
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2009/11/mich-n02.html

I live it. I saw what she did to the schools.

Quote:

With the words still reverberating from her inaugural address, Gov. Granholm has already stepped into the line of fire by announcing a plan to trim education spending in order to meet the state's growing budget crisis.

The move is unusual because it comes in the middle of the current fiscal year. Schools created their budgets last year after being promised by state officials that education funding for the 2002-03 school year wouldn't be cut.

Now, unless a new plan emerges in the coming weeks, it turns out the state won't keep its promise. Under Granholm's plan, per-pupil foundation grants (which average $6,700 per student) will be cut in March by an average of $56 per pupil. In addition, another $30 million will be cut statewide in supplemental aid, which funds such programs as adult education.
http://www.heraldpalladium.com/schoo...7b2358ba5.html
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Old Jan 9, 2014, 12:46 PM   #19
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Funny how you stopped a little short in your quote...

It also said



And it said she cut funding to schools for 4 of her 8 years.






http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2009/11/mich-n02.html

I live it. I saw what she did to the schools.


http://www.heraldpalladium.com/schoo...7b2358ba5.html
That's why I posted the link so people could read and decide for them selves bit at least I put things in context and actually spell thing out and support what I say. The worst economic crisis happened while see was in office and she still some how managed to have some real growth. She was also overwhelmingly re-elected in 06 which I also left out. You're never going to like her so my post was more for posterity and to demonstrate you lack of context
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Old Jan 9, 2014, 01:00 PM   #20
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Funny how you stopped a little short in your quote...

It also said

And it said she cut funding to schools for 4 of her 8 years.
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2009/11/mich-n02.html

I live it. I saw what she did to the schools.

http://www.heraldpalladium.com/schoo...7b2358ba5.html
Do you think taxes should be raised to pay for school or would you go with the GOP's favored offset method? And what would you take money from to pay for it? After all, education is a social program.
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Old Jan 9, 2014, 02:11 PM   #21
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Do you think taxes should be raised to pay for school or would you go with the GOP's favored offset method? And what would you take money from to pay for it? After all, education is a social program.
Yer kidding right? There are a thousand things that could be cut that would effect far fewer people and have less of an impact on society.

But to sort of answer the question, I have voted yes for the millage proposal the last 3 times they have tried. Unfortunately, it has been shot down every time. What ever happened to the lottery money being added to help schools?
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Old Jan 9, 2014, 02:30 PM   #22
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Do you think taxes should be raised to pay for school or would you go with the GOP's favored offset method? And what would you take money from to pay for it? After all, education is a social program.
In my school district, 90% of the entire school budget goes to pay administration costs (salaries and benefits). I've checked out the budgets of other school districts in my state (Michigan) and the numbers are about the same.

That sure doesn't leave much for the students and I'm opposed to any increase in my taxes to pay higher salaries to already well-paid teachers ($74 to $85K).

Now, if that percentage could be reversed and 90% could benefit the students and 10% administration, I'd have a different viewpoint.
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Old Jan 9, 2014, 02:33 PM   #23
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In my school district, 90% of the entire school budget goes to pay administration costs (salaries and benefits). I've checked out the budgets of other school districts in my state (Michigan) and the numbers are about the same.

That sure doesn't leave much for the students and I'm opposed to any increase in my taxes to pay higher salaries to already well-paid teachers ($74 to $85K).

Now, if that percentage could be reversed and 90% could benefit the students and 10% administration, I'd have a different viewpoint.
I'd be interested in seeing the source for those numbers.

Thanks...
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Old Jan 9, 2014, 02:37 PM   #24
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In my school district, 90% of the entire school budget goes to pay administration costs (salaries and benefits). I've checked out the budgets of other school districts in my state (Michigan) and the numbers are about the same.

That sure doesn't leave much for the students and I'm opposed to any increase in my taxes to pay higher salaries to already well-paid teachers ($74 to $85K).

Now, if that percentage could be reversed and 90% could benefit the students and 10% administration, I'd have a different viewpoint.
I would challenge that 90% goes for salary and benefits. Source that please.

I would like to know what you consider "administrative and benefits".
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Old Jan 9, 2014, 02:45 PM   #25
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I'd be interested in seeing the source for those numbers.

Thanks...
http://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/18684

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilQueen View Post
I would challenge that 90% goes for salary and benefits. Source that please.

I would like to know what you consider "administrative and benefits".
Look into your own school district budget. It's public record and can be found online. Administrative and benefits consists of salaries and associated benefits.

I was just as amazed as you when I first saw the numbers.
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