OSX question from a possible convert.

taelan28 · Jan 15, 2014

Staunch windows user here. I've grown used to Windows 8.1 and the Surface is absolutely svelte. HOWEVER. Im in Korea and the Surface pro 2 hasnt release yet.

Im really keen on a 13 inch macbookpro Retina. Usability quirks aside its I'll admit its easier to use a mac than ever before. There are just two and a half deal breakers for me.

Open office: I tried downloading a mac version on the display model but it wouldnt install properly.

uTorrent: ditto. It was the beta version for mac and no dice. Further, even if I do install it will I still be able to download and open files freely? Any problems playing oddball video files, like the ones that Korean movies come in?

Bootcamp: how does it work? I know it runs Windows 8 natively and i read that I cant run Win8 with on a rMBP because there are already partitians. How do i get started using it if I want to run windows 8?

Dark Dragoon · Jan 15, 2014

taelan28 said:
Open office: I tried downloading a mac version on the display model but it wouldnt install properly.

It may have been locked down, normally Open Office will run fine (same for Libre Office). Macs also come with iWork now for free (Pages, Keynote and Numbers).

taelan28 said:
uTorrent: ditto. It was the beta version for mac and no dice. Further, even if I do install it will I still be able to download and open files freely? Any problems playing oddball video files, like the ones that Korean movies come in?

Yup sounds like the display model was locked down, uTorrent (there is a stable build available) should work fine, and even if it doesn't there are other torrent clients available such as Transmission.

If you install VLC it will play back pretty much any video, or alternatively there's MPlayerX.

taelan28 said:
Bootcamp: how does it work? I know it runs Windows 8 natively and i read that I cant run Win8 with on a rMBP because there are already partitians. How do i get started using it if I want to run windows 8?

You run the bootcamp assistant, it partitions the hard drive for you and helps you create a usb installer. It guides you through the process of setting up a dual boot OSX and Windows system.

GGJstudios · Jan 15, 2014

taelan28 said:
Open office: I tried downloading a mac version on the display model but it wouldnt install properly.

What happened exactly when you tried to install it. AFAIK, there are no known issues with installing Open Office.

taelan28 said:
uTorrent: ditto. It was the beta version for mac and no dice. Further, even if I do install it will I still be able to download and open files freely? Any problems playing oddball video files, like the ones that Korean movies come in?

Transmission seems to be a favorite among Mac users. You might want to check it out. You can play most video formats on OS X if you have the right app. VLC plays videos of various formats.

taelan28 said:
Bootcamp: how does it work? I know it runs Windows 8 natively and i read that I cant run Win8 with on a rMBP because there are already partitians. How do i get started using it if I want to run windows 8?

Mac Basics: Using Windows on your Mac via Boot Camp
Boot Camp 5: Frequently asked questions
Boot Camp Support

Kelmon · Jan 15, 2014

taelan28 said:
Im really keen on a 13 inch macbookpro Retina.

...

Open office: I tried downloading a mac version on the display model but it wouldnt install properly.

Does anyone know if OpenOffice supports the Retina Display of a MacBook Pro? I've had a bit of a look to see if I can find confirmation of this but I'm not seeing anything. If it doesn't then I would personally pass on it. The Retina Display on a MacBook Pro is pretty amazing as long as it is displaying content optimised for it. Applications that don't support the display tend to look "fuzzy" and that's really not great when you are working with text. MS Office 2011 does support the Retina Display for content, although I think the GUI itself isn't yet.

taelan28 · Jan 15, 2014

Wow thanks for the full answers guys. You're probably right that it was locked down since two programs didnt work. Im aware it has pages but I cant save it as a .doc file. Pages seems sufficient but when it comes to throwin around resumes and reference letters then Pages just aint going to cut it.

Thanks for the answer on torrents too.

The ball is is MS's court. I love that touch screen and tablet form with PC power, but that 13 inch screen is beautiful. Gotta release it in Korea before March.

ScoobyMcDoo · Jan 15, 2014

taelan28 said:
Im aware it has pages but I cant save it as a .doc file.

I'm almost positive it can.

taelan28 said:
Pages seems sufficient but when it comes to throwin around resumes and reference letters then Pages just aint going to cut it.

You hand your resumes and letters in doc format? I never do that - I always give them in PDF format - harder (but not impossible) for the headhunters to modify.

Dark Dragoon · Jan 15, 2014

ScoobyMcDoo said:
I'm almost positive it can.

Yeah Pages can export as either .doc or .docx.

ScoobyMcDoo said:
You hand your resumes and letters in doc format? I never do that - I always give them in PDF format - harder (but not impossible) for the headhunters to modify.

Another good reason to send PDF's is that you can't be sure that your .doc file will look the same on the other persons computer, especially if it was made with Open Office, Pages or some other program. Even files made with different versions of Microsoft Word may display differently.

priitv8 · Jan 15, 2014

uTorrent for Mac runs without a hitch. It is a nice little program with a clean UI. I've used it for years.

Fishrrman · Jan 15, 2014

One thing to be aware of in Korea (you are probably already aware of it):

Seems I recall reading not long ago, that most banking sites in Korea (possibly some other financially-related sites as well) absolutely require the use of MS Internet Explorer?

There is no equivalent to Explorer for the Mac -- other than booting into Windows itself (either through BootCamp or by way of a "virtual machine").

I could be wrong about this.

priitv8 · Jan 15, 2014

You can set Safari to use User Agent string of IE (in the Develop menu).
Not sure if it will help with those sites, though.

Fishrrman · Jan 15, 2014

[[ Not sure if it will help with those sites, though. ]]

I don't think it will.

The reason why Internet Explorer is required is because those sites use "Active X" (I think). It's only "present" in Explorer running under Windows. Changing Safari's "ID" won't help.

Kelmon · Jan 16, 2014

taelan28 said:
Staunch windows user here.

Something I'll note from my experience of switching from Windows (I was back with Windows XP and OS X 10.2) is easier if you want to do it. I confess to having mocked the Mac for many years prior but Windows XP started driving me absolutely nuts and I figured that I wanted to try something different. And the Mac is definitely different. It might not be for you if you like the way Windows works. Personally, Windows continues to drive me nuts and the Mac just fits better with how I want a computer to work.

taelan28 · Jan 16, 2014

Wow, Im glad Im spouting BS by the second, because if gives you guys an oppurtunity to correct me. Pages can save as a .doc file. Good to know.

Kelmon you make a great point about wanting to switch. I like many hated Windows 8 but I spent about 20 minutes with it on a proper hybrid device memorizing all the motions to multi task and it was slick. I also dont like the design language of OSX, its just cold and unwelcoming. I can change the settings on Windows 7 to a beautiful translucent green.

When I learned that magic mouse had a two button function built in then the biggest barrier was out of the way. Im more used to pressing the control key to access the right click than ever before, it doesnt feel like a rediculous chore, though its still petty that they dont include it in the hardware.

Is there any way I can get rid of the dock or hide it completely? I dont want to see it unless i summon it.... like with the press of a key.

What about shortcuts on the desktop? or am I bound to the dock?

What about splitting the screen 50/50? Windows has a sweet feature that when you drag and bump a window to the side it will expand to fill half the screen. Is there at least a key command for that?

What about Google Chrome?
What happened to IE? It was there YEARS ago.
Opera?
Dolphin?
I prefer to have 2-3 browsers. When one is acting up I switch to the other.

ScoobyMcDoo · Jan 16, 2014

taelan28 said:
I also dont like the design language of OSX, its just cold and unwelcoming.

What does this mean? Seriously, I have no idea what you mean by "design language" and I would like to know.

taelan28 said:
Is there any way I can get rid of the dock or hide it completely? I dont want to see it unless i summon it.... like with the press of a key.

You can hide it and have it appear when you hover near where it is placed.

taelan28 said:
What about shortcuts on the desktop? or am I bound to the dock?

Yep, they are called aliases. Shortcuts are a really poor implementation that the folks in Redmond created to do what the unix world had been doing since the 70s.

taelan28 said:
What about splitting the screen 50/50? Windows has a sweet feature that when you drag and bump a window to the side it will expand to fill half the screen. Is there at least a key command for that?

This, in my opinion, is a retarded feature that pisses me off every time I have to use a windows box, or a linux box that has cloned this stupid feature. I think there is a 3rd party program that provides this.

taelan28 said:
What about Google Chrome?
What happened to IE? It was there YEARS ago.
Opera?
Dolphin?
I prefer to have 2-3 browsers. When one is acting up I switch to the other.

Chrome, yes.
IE - dead for over a decade.
Opera - available for OS-X
Dolphin - I dunno I know of a dolphin that is a file manager for KDE, and I think is available for OSX. Is this what you are talking about?

I use Safari, Chrome and Firefox.

Dark Dragoon · Jan 16, 2014

taelan28 said:
Kelmon you make a great point about wanting to switch. I like many hated Windows 8 but I spent about 20 minutes with it on a proper hybrid device memorizing all the motions to multi task and it was slick.

If you like Windows 8.1 on a hybrid device, you are used to Windows and all your applications run on Windows then I would think very carefully about whether you should switch to a completely different platform.

With that said onto the rest of the questions.

taelan28 said:
I also dont like the design language of OSX, its just cold and unwelcoming. I can change the settings on Windows 7 to a beautiful translucent green.

There are hacks and modifications to change the look of OS X, however they do have a high probability of breaking things especially when updating OS X.

taelan28 said:
When I learned that magic mouse had a two button function built in then the biggest barrier was out of the way. Im more used to pressing the control key to access the right click than ever before, it doesnt feel like a rediculous chore, though its still petty that they dont include it in the hardware.

True, though by not including the second button and using a touch surface it does have the advantage of allowing you to perform other gestures such as scrolling up, down, left and right, two finger swipes left and right as well as tapping for smart zoom or double taping for mission control.

Not everyone likes the Magic Mouse, though luckily you can use pretty much whatever mouse you want. So if you want a different shaped mouse with separate physical buttons and a scroll wheel there isn't anything stopping you from using one.

taelan28 said:
Is there any way I can get rid of the dock or hide it completely? I dont want to see it unless i summon it.... like with the press of a key.

You can hide the dock, it will auto appear when moving the mouse to the bottom of the screen.

You won't want to get rid of the dock as its pretty central to using OS X, much in the same way as the task bar is in Windows 7.

taelan28 said:
What about shortcuts on the desktop? or am I bound to the dock?

There are plenty of shortcuts, you can take a look at Apple page listing them http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1343, however you will likely need to still use the dock for some things. Really if you switch to OS X you will want to try and forget the ways you did things in Windows and use the OS X equivalents. There are applications which modify the behaviour of OS X however I wouldn't install any of them until you have used OS X for at-least a few weeks and have learnt how it works.

EDIT: ScoobyMcDoo's answer was better for this, regarding aliases on the desktop. Though alternatives such as using Spotlight, Launchpad or Finder to launch your applications would generally be better if you don't have the application on the dock.

taelan28 said:
What about splitting the screen 50/50? Windows has a sweet feature that when you drag and bump a window to the side it will expand to fill half the screen. Is there at least a key command for that?

This is not built in, there are some third party applications which replicate this behaviour.

taelan28 said:
What about Google Chrome?
What happened to IE? It was there YEARS ago.
Opera?
Dolphin?
I prefer to have 2-3 browsers. When one is acting up I switch to the other.

Chrome and Opera are available, Safari is built in and there are others such as Firefox available.
Isn't Dolphin only available on iOS and Android?
Internet Explorer for Mac was discontinued over 10 years ago.

ScoobyMcDoo · Jan 16, 2014

Dark Dragoon said:
EDIT: ScoobyMcDoo's answer was better for this, regarding aliases on the desktop. Though alternatives such as using Spotlight, Launchpad or Finder to launch your applications would generally be better if you don't have the application on the dock.

I absolutely agree. I do not have one single alias on my desktop. I have the apps I use often on the Dock and use cmd-space (spotlight) to launch the rest.

taelan28 · Jan 16, 2014

you already know what design language is .
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_language

i dont even want the dock summoned when i scroll over it. id rather use a short cut to delete stuff and use the full app page via 3 finger pinch to get to my programs.

not interested in 3rd part programs. i did have time to play around with the settings months back and i was disappointed with what i could do compared to windows 7.

it bugs me when i click to maximize and it doesnt take the full screen like windows and i have that dock taking up space.

im right on the edge between a surface pro 2 and a rMBP. Costs would be similar and mac products are compeditively priced with PC counterparts here in Kland.

can someone explain what finder is? i get it but i dont. its always open and its like the default osx program itself.

alas im willing to work through these things if osx does all you already said it can do.

Dark Dragoon · Jan 16, 2014

taelan28 said:
i dont even want the dock summoned when i scroll over it. id rather use a short cut to delete stuff and use the full app page via 3 finger pinch to get to my programs.

You are going to need to learn to use the dock, it is pretty important to the use of OS X.
It isn't just for launching applications but for notifications and statuses as well as other things.

If you decide to only use OS X a certain way which it isn't really designed for, before you even start.
Then you will end up having a pretty miserable time with OS X.

taelan28 said:
it bugs me when i click to maximize and it doesnt take the full screen like windows and i have that dock taking up space.

What button were you clicking to do that?
The buttons on the top left of a window are:-
- Close Window (closes the window and often not the application, even if its the last window)
- Minimise (minimises the window to the dock)
- Zoom (adjusts the windows size to fit the content, also sometimes switches modes as with iTunes)

The button you probably wanted is the fullscreen button which is on the top right of a window,
this switches the window to fullscreen mode causing it to load into its own desktop and auto hides both the dock and menu bar.

taelan28 said:
can someone explain what finder is? i get it but i dont. its always open and its like the default osx program itself.

Its like windows explorer, so its used for file management and for displaying the files on your desktop.
As with windows explorer you can't close it, only restart it.

allan.nyholm · Jan 17, 2014

To put some names to the applications that can turn the screen 50/50 + more - here are some that I know of;

Window Magnet from the Mac App Store (costs a little)

Moom also from the Mac App Store (costs a little more)

BetterTouchTool has a built in feature that allows this but the author also sells a dedicated version for just window handling (BetterTouchTool is free) Edit. I think BetterTouchTool hides this an advanced feature so be sure to click that icon or check that box.

I've read of a few more that includes a split screen functionality like HyperDock - although I think of this as a hack.

torana355 · Jan 17, 2014

priitv8 said:
uTorrent for Mac runs without a hitch. It is a nice little program with a clean UI. I've used it for years.

+1, i use it extensively, my iMac runs 24/7 with U-torrent running.

Kelmon · Jan 17, 2014

taelan28 said:
im right on the edge between a surface pro 2 and a rMBP. Costs would be similar and mac products are compeditively priced with PC counterparts here in Kland.

I hate to say it but I get the feeling that you'd have a happier time with a Surface 2. If you like Windows, hardware and software, then I don't see much point in moving unless OS X has access to applications that you need that are not available on Windows. Switching is only worth it if you want to do it and you are committed to learning how to use your new computer rather than trying to force it to work like your last one.

The above said, I did largely force my father to switch to the Mac but that was mostly because he had lots of problems with Windows and I got fed up with having to "go back" to Windows each time I visited and was asked to sort something out. He still has problems with the Mac but they are much less irritating to sort out, plus it plays nicely with his iPhone and iPad.

I'll note that I really dislike the Windows Maximise button. It kinda made sense when I was working on small, low resolution displays, but annoys me considerably when a window wastes screen space with no content rather than taking up just what it needs. That said, I confess that I do quite like Windows 7's way of making windows as tall as the screen since that works quite well with windows with scrolling content like documents.

taelan28 · Jan 17, 2014

Kelmon you're right. Had Surface pro 2 been launched I would have snapped that up, and before I went into the store recently to take another look at the RMBP I was still dismissive of Apple and their Macs.

My dream machine is a 13inch PC tablet with a retina class screen (see Samsung ATIV Book Q that was never released).

When posting and voicing my concerns I seem to pile on the negatives.
Things I dont like:
The dock
The way I close a window and the program hasnt exited. I need to click "File, quit" or control q. Really annoying too. I expect the program to stop running and allow the program underneath to take over.
The inability to maximize a window like in windows. I feel like Im wasting space, conversly, Kelmon, you feel like you're wasting space for the opposite reason.
Brushed Aluminum design (Johnny Ive, please fix that) and lack of customizability.
Wasted space on the sides of the dock.
The animation to fully maximze an app to take up the entire screen is a slow animation meant for old people. I want that stuff dont at the speed of thought.
Needing to press the control key to right click (though Im getting over that)

In sum, sometimes when I use a mac I feel like Im constipated. Prime example: the sticky notes widget. In windows I can add new sticky notes quickly after I open the app. On OSX I need to go back down to a corner every time to add a new sticky note. Its slower and mentally jarring compared to Windows' sticky note app. Little things like that (slow animation speed) (I want the browser, not the dock) make using macs give me a constipated feeling.

Converserly Windows is pretty fast. The charms bar comes right up. Swiping stuff comes right up. Moving the mouse to the top left brings up all other apps pretty quickly. Windows 8 adds an unecessary step inbetween a lot of things (really, click and drag up the image to unlock your computer? Back in my day screen savers just let you move the mouse), but I've gotten used to it.

Those negatives being said a friend of mine showed me his mac mini a couple year ago with the magic mouse and I was quite impressed. Sliding between multiple screens, adding multipe desktops to multiply the multitasking. Even with my time in the store when I got busy and started "moving stuff around" i was adapting to it well and enjoying it and I was doing it really well with the track pad. For what I use a PC for (WP/internet/media at the market price

) a RMBP would be almost over powering, but I work hard for my money and I like nice things. I dont want to come home and look at anything I own and value and feel like its not for me. Sounds silly, so I'll explain further. The water ski I own was just as expensive and rides just well as all the other skis, but its the one that looks like MY ski and I'm proud to ride it every time Im out. My last Samsung PC was MY PC. 11inches of slim, simple and beatiful, until it broke. When I picked up the Retina Macbook Pro I got a good feeling like... Dang, I should walk out of here right now. Simple, pure, sexy, it felt like MY PC.

Im sure I'll adapt to OSX just fine. My last session in the store was pleasant, and fun. What it come down to is form factor. I read and browse on my sofa all day. I used my last PC a lot like a tablet except that it was akwardly on my stomach and chest with a KB. I intend to use a Surface pro the same way, however that small screen space could be a pain when I get that "research itch" when I bury my face in a computer for hours and days on end reading up on stuff... like right now.

A RMBP on the other hand has a lot of screen real estate, so I could multi task better. It feels good, the battery lasts longer. The retina screen means my eyes wont get nearly as blurry or bad after power sessions using it.

Then again I could just get a surface pro 2 and a TV/monitor and mix the two when I need the screen realestate, it would save me money instead of buying both.

I could also make like honey badger and do what i want and not give a ..... get a surface pro 2. RMBP and a TV/monitor. Do i need all that? Absolutely not, but it would cover every base and eliminate all inconveniences I have with computing.

You guys have been very helpful.
I also checked wikipedia. the current RMBP should be able to run an Apple OSX for the next 4-5 years.

Kelmon · Jan 17, 2014

There is an awful lot to be said, if you like a read, to David Pogue's "Missing Manual" books. It's what I used when I switched many years ago and it really helped explain things, plus I find him quite amusing.

On that sort of thing...

taelan28 said:
The way I close a window and the program hasnt exited. I need to click "File, quit" or control q. Really annoying too. I expect the program to stop running and allow the program underneath to take over.

Yeah, you don't really have to Quit applications. If you are doing so to conserve resources then you should be aware that the Mac OS is pretty efficient so applications should not consume unnecessary resources they are not being used, plus you'll be able to open new documents faster if the host application is already running. There are some exceptions to this but I wouldn't worry about it. Besides, when it comes to doing stuff like quitting applications the Mac has a few tricks up its sleeve that I wish Windows would "borrow", such as being able to manipulate background applications from the Cmd+Tab (i.e. Alt+Tab from Windows). For example, you can quit an application from Cmd+Tab by highlighting the application's icon and tapping Q on the keyboard. I miss that at work...

Dark Dragoon · Jan 17, 2014

taelan28 said:
The way I close a window and the program hasnt exited. I need to click "File, quit" or control q. Really annoying too. I expect the program to stop running and allow the program underneath to take over.

This is one of the big differences between OS X and Windows, where OS X is document-centric versus Windows being application-centric, the main difference is that it is expected that most applications will remain running once their last window is closed, this is especially useful for certain applications where you expect them to stay running doing something with the window closed. For example you open up Mail, then close the window, it will continue periodically checking for new messages. iTunes keeps playing music etc...

Application closing wise, this is now quite similar with the Windows 8 Modern interface, where you are expected to just switch between Modern apps and not close them down, with the OS managing them. At one point Apple even disabled the little indicators to tell you whether an application was running or not, although that was turned back on by default later.

I find it's best with OS X to just not close the applications you use frequently unless you really need to, so I leave things like Mail, Safari, Messages, iTunes and a few other things always open. As I leave them open they are also reopened for me when I start up the computer so its all ready to go without me needing to run them myself.

taelan28 said:
The inability to maximize a window like in windows. I feel like Im wasting space, conversly, Kelmon, you feel like you're wasting space for the opposite reason.

Luckily fullscreen mode in applications uses the entire screen. As a bonus applications can also have a different fullscreen interface which makes better use of the screen size, versus just scaling up the window.

taelan28 said:
The animation to fully maximze an app to take up the entire screen is a slow animation meant for old people. I want that stuff dont at the speed of thought.

It's best to just not minimise applications unless you really need to:-
a) If its something like Mail, iTunes, Messages where theres only usually one window then I just close the window. If I need to go back to it I click on the applications icon in the dock and it's back instantly.
b) You can hide an application (and all its open windows), then click on the dock icon to instantly bring them back.

Alternatively you can organise your applications onto different desktops, or manage the windows via Mission Control or App Expose.

taelan28 said:
Needing to press the control key to right click (though Im getting over that)

Yeah this changed when Apple released their Mighty Mouse in 2005, though before that you could use third party (PC) mice with more than one button.

taelan28 said:
In sum, sometimes when I use a mac I feel like Im constipated. Prime example: the sticky notes widget. In windows I can add new sticky notes quickly after I open the app. On OSX I need to go back down to a corner every time to add a new sticky note. Its slower and mentally jarring compared to Windows' sticky note app. Little things like that (slow animation speed) (I want the browser, not the dock) make using macs give me a constipated feeling.

Keyboard shortcuts help here, Command + N will create a new note in Notes, and in many other applications it creates a new document. In Notes if the list isn't too long you can double click in an empty part of the list to create a new note, or right click in the list and choose New Note. There are usually faster ways of doing tasks if you need to.

taelan28 · Jan 19, 2014

got it. basic 13 inch rmbp

already the thing is pissine off with the way its document centric amd not app centric.

how do i save a .docx file and a .xlsx file? in open office its easy i select an option at the bottom. i tried manually writing the file extention and said i could only save it as pages amd numbers. ex resume.docx.pages or homework.xlsx.numbers

comments?

OSX question from a possible convert.

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