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Old Feb 14, 2014, 05:43 AM   #1
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Apple and Samsung Fail to Reach Deal Over Patent Issues in Recent Mediation Meeting




Last month, it was reported that Apple CEO Tim Cook and Samsung Electronics CEO Oh-Hyun Kwon agreed to attend a mediation session on or before February 19 ahead of a second patent infringement lawsuit between the two companies set for next month. Now, ZDNet Korea [Google Translate] (via The Verge) is reporting that both companies met in the United States last week but failed to reach an agreement in their ongoing legal battle.

The report notes that Cook met with Samsung mobile division chief J.K. Shin to discuss a possible settlement, but did not make any significant progress towards a deal. Korean newspaper Choshun [Google Translate] states that Shin was originally expected to fly out to the United States next week before the court-imposed deadline on the meeting, but now has no plans to do so, indicating that the session has already taken place.

In late December, The Korea Times reported the two companies had resumed settlement talks in their ongoing negotiations over their patent-infringement dispute, as Samsung executive Shin Jong-Kyun was expected to meet with Cook. Previously, the Apple CEO met with former Samsung CEO Choi Gee-Sung in 2012 to discuss the subject, but talks fell through because Samsung would not accept Apple's demand for patent royalties. The two companies also met last year in Seoul, Korea but discussions failed to progress.

Notably, Shin was quoted in November 2012 as saying that Samsung has "no such intention" in settling with Apple over patent issues, as HTC and Apple announced that they had reached a global settlement on their patent dispute earlier that month.

The second patent infringement lawsuit between Apple and Samsung is set to begin on March 31, as Apple's Chief of Worldwide Marketing Phil Schiller will be among the witnesses. Samsung will only have four patents claims to bring to the upcoming trial, as Judge Koh invalidated two of its patent claims last month.

Article Link: Apple and Samsung Fail to Reach Deal Over Patent Issues in Recent Mediation Meeting
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Old Feb 14, 2014, 06:09 AM   #2
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Oh well. Off to court then.
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Old Feb 14, 2014, 06:11 AM   #3
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- Reads title


- Isn't surprised
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Old Feb 14, 2014, 06:43 AM   #4
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How is Koh still a Judge?
Only in the USA.
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Old Feb 14, 2014, 06:56 AM   #5
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Woah! Move aside "The Young and the Restless"
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Old Feb 14, 2014, 07:20 AM   #6
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Woah! Move aside "The Young and the Restless"
Next week on "As the Apple Turns: the Battle Against Samsung"...
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Old Feb 14, 2014, 07:57 AM   #7
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Alternate solution to mediation:

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Old Feb 14, 2014, 08:02 AM   #8
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After losing a BILLION dollar case, that Samsung says they have no intention on settling, seems strange. Talk about a distortion field.
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Old Feb 14, 2014, 08:05 AM   #9
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Notably, Shin was quoted in November 2012 as saying that Samsung has "no such intention" in settling with Apple over patent issues, as HTC and Apple announced that they had reached a global settlement on their patent dispute earlier that month.
Well, there's not much of an historical incentive:
  • Nokia gets cross license to some of Apple's patents.
  • HTC pays for license to all of Apple's patents.
  • Samsung and Apple refuse to settle with each other.

Which companies are doing best?
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Old Feb 14, 2014, 08:08 AM   #10
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After losing a BILLION dollar case, that Samsung says they have no intention on settling, seems strange. Talk about a distortion field.
That is not guaranteed though... I believe judge also lowered 1B amount.

I do not know how much does Apple want loyalty from its patents, I am sure that Samsung might feel to expensive for them in long run. They might as well just pay the 1B or whatever it might be.
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Old Feb 14, 2014, 08:23 AM   #11
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Since Samsung continues to be intransigent, take them back to court, bend them over and...well, you get the picture.

I really think that at this point, Samsung is just trying to save face. I believe that at this point, they think that if they settle, they'll be seen as having an even larger defeat - go figure - than losing in court. At least if they go to court, they have a CHANCE of getting away scot-free, though that appears highly unlikely.
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Old Feb 14, 2014, 08:37 AM   #12
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After losing a BILLION dollar case, that Samsung says they have no intention on settling, seems strange. Talk about a distortion field.
I'd bet that paying out court settlements is cheaper than paying patent royalties.
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Old Feb 14, 2014, 09:10 AM   #13
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I imagine the conversation going like this:

Apple- we can forget the blatant iPhone copying if you promise not to copy our new products coming out this year.

Samsung- you know we can't make that promise.

Discussion over.
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Old Feb 14, 2014, 09:27 AM   #14
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Old Feb 14, 2014, 09:29 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by StrongArmmed View Post
Since Samsung continues to be intransigent, take them back to court, bend them over and...well, you get the picture.

I really think that at this point, Samsung is just trying to save face. I believe that at this point, they think that if they settle, they'll be seen as having an even larger defeat - go figure - than losing in court. At least if they go to court, they have a CHANCE of getting away scot-free, though that appears highly unlikely.
It is obviously Apple has win every case outside of USA...
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Old Feb 14, 2014, 11:30 AM   #16
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Settling is for shameful weaklings. Samsung is the great warrior and will vanquish his foes with courage and ferocity....or pay out another billion or so.
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Old Feb 14, 2014, 11:58 AM   #17
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That is not guaranteed though... I believe judge also lowered 1B amount.

I do not know how much does Apple want loyalty from its patents, I am sure that Samsung might feel to expensive for them in long run. They might as well just pay the 1B or whatever it might be.
I assume that the payout is for damages done. Wouldn't the court then still force Samsung to pay royalties for pattens that are upheld in the future? So instead of negotiating they are betting that the court will give them a better deal? That's what I mean -- I would prefer to negotiate and control the price versus having it set by someone else where I will probably pay more (given the track record they have in court).

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I'd bet that paying out court settlements is cheaper than paying patent royalties.
As stated before, paying out, I think is for past infraction. Going forward they will likely still be forced to pay royalties if the court upholds the patents.
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Old Feb 14, 2014, 12:00 PM   #18
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Samsung won't agree to the anti-cloning agreement, aka copying apple products
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Old Feb 14, 2014, 12:04 PM   #19
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Samsung won't agree to the anti-cloning agreement, aka copying apple products
Samsung can't do that. Where else would they copy that next big idea?
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Old Feb 14, 2014, 12:12 PM   #20
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I agree with Samsung. My Note 3 has nothing in common with the iPhone. It's why I went from a Note 2 to a iPhone 5s and back to the Note 3. I started having the shakes and blurred vision with the 5s. Doctor told me that small screens will do that.
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Old Feb 14, 2014, 12:22 PM   #21
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Samsung can't do that. Where else would they copy that next big idea?
That would be like shutting down your R&D department... it's just crazy!
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Old Feb 14, 2014, 01:13 PM   #22
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How is Koh still a Judge?
Only in the USA.
She's not the best, but she has a better understanding of intellectual property law than Alsup does. Alsup is a brilliant guy, but his ruling in the Oracle v Google case regarding copyright of API's was flat-out wrong.

As a software developer, I can tell you that developing an API is not just about naming functions and parameters. You have to come up with complex object hierarchies that keep implementation private while exposing functionality. This means having to spend most of the time designing class hierarchies of objects as well as functions that take those objects and what kinds of types are returned. Often the actual implementation is the part that is not worth protecting because the implementation is trivial.

Case-and-point.... BSD sockets have been able to do multiplexing for decades. It is a well known technique by which you can do a non-busy wait for data on multiple sockets on a single thread and then get a wakeup to process the data when data arrives on one or more of those sockets. The first design of java.io failed to take this into account and required that those waiting for data on multiple sockets do a busy wait with polling or use one thread per socket which is not feasible in the case where you have over 50 sockets with which you are communicating (i.e.: it would require 50 threads). Java redesigned the API in Java 1.4 with a great new API called java.nio. The new API has a great object hierarchy and better return values and parameters which allows Java to expose multiplexing within the virtual machine. The implementation was trivial, but the API is what required some rethinking because the old BSD API's were not at all object oriented and the Java architects came up with something that was.

For Google to be allowed to copy this wholesale (class names, function names, parameter names, return types, class/interface hierarchy) without penalty is ridiculous. It shows that Alsup has little understanding of where the intellectual investment goes in software even though he says he learned to program in Java to prepare himself for this case.

Protecting the implementation of something with copyright is kinda dumb. The only implementations worth protecting can already be protected with patents. Copyright is the correct mechanism to protect an API from wholesale copying. It would mean that Google would have at least had to change the names or some part of what they did. They wouldn't be barred completely from using Oracle's ideas, but they could not wholesale copy it. Much like a songwriter can come up with a tune that is similar but not identical to another. Wholesale copying of an API should be a violation of copyright law and I am hoping Alsup's ruling gets overturned through appeal sooner rather than later.

At the very least, Google should have had to change class names and function names even if they were allowed to copy the object inheritance (though I think they should have to at least differ by some percentage there as well).

UPDATE: Replaced "Posner" with "Alsup" above. Thanks to kdarling for spotting my brain fart.

Last edited by BC2009; Feb 17, 2014 at 06:42 AM. Reason: Corrected Judge's name.
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Old Feb 14, 2014, 01:31 PM   #23
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Samsung can't do that. Where else would they copy that next big idea?
Can you tell me what did Samsung copied for their Galaxy S4 and Note 3?

Seems to me that you think everything Samsung ever created were copied from Apple...
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Old Feb 14, 2014, 02:26 PM   #24
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As a software developer,
You being a software developer makes you more qualified to interpret the law than a Judge?
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Old Feb 14, 2014, 03:52 PM   #25
Will do good
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Can you tell me what did Samsung copied for their Galaxy S4 and Note 3?

Seems to me that you think everything Samsung ever created were copied from Apple...
You mean after Apple have established the smart phone and tablet for the industry, than they innovate from there. Than you are correct.
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