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Old Feb 25, 2014, 10:32 AM   #1
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Apple Asks EU to Limit Injunctions in Patent Infringement Cases




Apple, Samsung and 19 other technology companies sent a letter to the European Union asking for limits on injunctions in patent infringement cases, reports Bloomberg. These limits would be incorporated into the future European Unitary Patent system and Unified Patent Court.

The letter requests that judges in the new EU patent court be given guidance on when to issue an injunction in cases where the validity of a patent is questionable. The guidelines would make it harder for patent holding companies to block the import and sales of devices by filing infringement lawsuits.
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"Without this guidance, the potential exists for a court to order an injunction prohibiting the importation and sale of goods even though the patent may ultimately be found invalid."
These rules would be incorporated into the proposed Unitary Patent system and Unified Patent Court, which establishes one patent system and a single jurisdiction court for all participating European Union member states.

A similar group of technology companies are petitioning the U.S. Supreme Court for permission to collect legal fees when patent holding companies lose an infringement case. This change in the allocation of fees would cut down on the number of frivolous suits, argues the group.

Article Link: Apple Asks EU to Limit Injunctions in Patent Infringement Cases
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Old Feb 25, 2014, 10:35 AM   #2
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I'm sure they'll deny this request, the EU isn't the US in that it actually looks after the best interest of its citizens rather than corporations, especially foreign ones.
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Old Feb 25, 2014, 10:39 AM   #3
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I'm sure they'll deny this request, the EU isn't the US in that it actually looks after the best interest of its citizens rather than corporations, especially foreign ones.
Yep. Denying the release of products that the free market would otherwise allow to be sold to consumers who want to buy them because of some stupid frivolous patent lawsuit. I'm so glad big brother knows whats best for me. God forbid I had to do my own research and make my own purchasing decision. Imagine.... those greedy capitalist corporations actually charging me money to buy their product... at a PROFIT no less! Outrageous... I'd much rather not have an iPhone at all... That way I could have way more money in my pocket.
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Old Feb 25, 2014, 10:40 AM   #4
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I'm sure they'll deny this request, the EU isn't the US in that it actually looks after the best interest of its citizens rather than corporations, especially foreign ones.
Agreed. This request needs to be denied. I'm surprised Apple have the sheer audacity to request such a thing.
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Old Feb 25, 2014, 10:46 AM   #5
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Yep. Denying the release of products that the free market would otherwise allow to be sold to consumers who want to buy them because of some stupid frivolous patent lawsuit. I'm so glad big brother knows whats best for me. God forbid I had to do my own research and make my own purchasing decision. Imagine.... those greedy capitalist corporations actually charging me money to buy their product... at a PROFIT no less! Outrageous... I'd much rather not have an iPhone at all... That way I could have way more money in my pocket.
It's not that black and white, although I wish it was. An unregulated free market does not automatically mean optimal happiness for a countries citizens. The EU is doing a better job of most things and boy do we have a lot of what you guys call "big government".

I try to be liberal at all times, but sometimes I have to admit that government is required to regulate many things.
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Old Feb 25, 2014, 10:56 AM   #6
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It's not that black and white, although I wish it was. An unregulated free market does not automatically mean optimal happiness for a countries citizens. The EU is doing a better job of most things and boy do we have a lot of what you guys call "big government".

I try to be liberal at all times, but sometimes I have to admit that government is required to regulate many things.
The government's only legitimate purpose is to protect the rights of the individual, in the form of the securing of property rights, and possessing a capacity to defend from abroad when attacked or threatened with attacked. That's it. IP certainly is included in property rights, but the problem comes when the lawsuits are filed purely for an anti competitive purpose. Tim flat out said that these (standards essential) patent lawsuits are a "pain in the ass" and its not like he's worried about a bigger paycheck when he says that. He'll get paid either way. he's worried about the efficiency of Apple and the companies in the world in general when they get tied up in these incredibly expensive, resource consuming, and useless patent suits. I'm sure those are the kinds of innovation stifling, anti competitive lawsuits that they are detailing in this letter.
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Old Feb 25, 2014, 10:57 AM   #7
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"Please stop us from doing that thing that we keep doing to everyone else. Please."

Ok, I get that if other companies are doing it to your products then you might as well do it back, but it does feel like a schoolyard sometimes.
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Old Feb 25, 2014, 11:05 AM   #8
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A little like two football teams on the field, who cry out to the referee to award a foul.

Except, they now wish to be consulted (or "give guidance") before the referee issues a penalty, or award that they agree on.

Ridiculous. Talk about writing the rules as you go, to suit yourself.

All these big players make huge amounts of money from the patent scam.

If it is too hot in the kitchen, they should get out and lobby for a review, or overhaul of the current patent laws.

But they will never do that....
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Old Feb 25, 2014, 11:13 AM   #9
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Imagine.... those greedy capitalist corporations actually charging me money to buy their product... at a PROFIT no less! Outrageous... I'd much rather not have an iPhone at all... That way I could have way more money in my pocket.
Don't joke! If you lived in Argentina, this would actually be true. The government has made that decision for you.
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Old Feb 25, 2014, 11:33 AM   #10
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A little like two football teams on the field, who cry out to the referee to award a foul.

Except, they now wish to be consulted (or "give guidance") before the referee issues a penalty, or award that they agree on.

Ridiculous. Talk about writing the rules as you go, to suit yourself.

All these big players make huge amounts of money from the patent scam.

If it is too hot in the kitchen, they should get out and lobby for a review, or overhaul of the current patent laws.

But they will never do that....
Your example doesn't relate to the proposal. Currently one team (using your analogy) can tell the ref a player violated a penalty drawing rule
and the ref penalizes without seeing instant replay (validate claim of infringement), ejects "supposed" violator and at some later point in game reviews replay tape and discovers, perhaps, there was no violation but the team has already lost that player (profits from sales) because someone called foul (patent infringement) with no cause. If there is cause found, appropriate penalties follow, but with no cause found, the team penalized can't get back minutes on clock or what ejected player could have done.
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Old Feb 25, 2014, 11:40 AM   #11
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I'm sure they'll deny this request, the EU isn't the US in that it actually looks after the best interest of its citizens rather than corporations, especially foreign ones.
You mean like how they allowed the word "candy" to be trademarked? Yes they sure do know what they are doing.
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Old Feb 25, 2014, 12:06 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Z400Racer37 View Post
The government's only legitimate purpose is to protect the rights of the individual, in the form of the securing of property rights, and possessing a capacity to defend from abroad when attacked or threatened with attacked. That's it. IP certainly is included in property rights, but the problem comes when the lawsuits are filed purely for an anti competitive purpose. Tim flat out said that these (standards essential) patent lawsuits are a "pain in the ass" and its not like he's worried about a bigger paycheck when he says that. He'll get paid either way. he's worried about the efficiency of Apple and the companies in the world in general when they get tied up in these incredibly expensive, resource consuming, and useless patent suits. I'm sure those are the kinds of innovation stifling, anti competitive lawsuits that they are detailing in this letter.
"Sir, will you come to the stand?"

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Old Feb 25, 2014, 12:34 PM   #13
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A little like two football teams on the field, who cry out to the referee to award a foul.

Except, they now wish to be consulted (or "give guidance") before the referee issues a penalty, or award that they agree on.

Ridiculous. Talk about writing the rules as you go, to suit yourself.
The story says they wish the EU to give guidance, not themselves:
Quote:
The companies urged the committee of EU member states representatives that oversee the setting up of the court to incorporate guidance that advises judges
Seriously, how are both of these requests not already the case? Presumably the companies are asking for different guidance than currently given, whatever that may be.
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Old Feb 25, 2014, 01:44 PM   #14
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I'm sure they'll deny this request, the EU isn't the US in that it actually looks after the best interest of its citizens rather than corporations, especially foreign ones.

You think it is in the interest of citizens for them NOT to be allowed to buy certain goods? You have an interesting world view.

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Agreed. This request needs to be denied. I'm surprised Apple have the sheer audacity to request such a thing.
Same comment applies to this as my previous. I'm amazed that some Europeans actually claim to want judges to deny them the ability to buy products of their choosing. Sir, I do not believe you actually are representative of your countrymen.
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Old Feb 25, 2014, 03:18 PM   #15
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If it is too hot in the kitchen, they should get out and lobby for a review, or overhaul of the current patent laws.

But they will never do that....
Actually it is exactly what they are doing the 21 companies are asking for the NEW EU Patent system which is replacing the individual countries patent systems to not allow a device to be banned over a patent especially if its likely the patent will be thrown out. We have a large number of patent troll companies and them stopping Samsung from selling a Galaxy Model for 6 months could cost Samsung 100s of millions of Euros and then the case gets thrown out, and Samsung has no way to recoup the lost money because even sueing the patent troll company into bankruptcy doesnt recoup the loss. On the other hand, if Samsung sells the phone for 6 months, the judge decides they are in violation, Samsung can be fined a hefty portion of the profits from the sales and the patent owner gets paid. Its win, win either way and its how they cases should be handled instead of companies with the no assets costing companies billions only to be told 6 months later that the patent isnt valid.
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Old Feb 26, 2014, 04:13 AM   #16
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Apple Asks EU to Limit Injunctions in Patent Infringement Cases

Injunctions (here I am referring to preliminary injunctions) are granted very early in a court action for patent infringement and restrains the defendant from infringing the patent during the pendency of litigation. This is a crippling blow to the defendant’s business interest even before the validity of the patent is proved. So, it seems like a very justifiable demand. If somebody is in violation, it can be fined at a later stage (may be a hefty sum) to compensate for patent owner’s (plaintiff) loss.

Last edited by IPResearch; Feb 26, 2014 at 04:19 AM.
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Old Feb 26, 2014, 04:37 AM   #17
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The government's only legitimate purpose is to protect the rights of the individual, in the form of the securing of property rights, and possessing a capacity to defend from abroad when attacked or threatened with attacked.
I think that most people in Europe don't think that your ideology is the right one

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Originally Posted by Gasu E. View Post
You think it is in the interest of citizens for them NOT to be allowed to buy certain goods? You have an interesting world view.

----------



Same comment applies to this as my previous. I'm amazed that some Europeans actually claim to want judges to deny them the ability to buy products of their choosing. Sir, I do not believe you actually are representative of your countrymen.

So, do you think that injunctions against Motorola and Samsung devices is wrong?
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Old Feb 26, 2014, 04:55 AM   #18
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You mean like how they allowed the word "candy" to be trademarked? Yes they sure do know what they are doing.

And how is trademarking the word Candy any different that Trademarking the word Iphone. Remember In Europe the word is never used in the same sense as in the US to mean "Sweets"
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Old Feb 26, 2014, 10:37 AM   #19
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I think that most people in Europe don't think that your ideology is the right one
... And their economies are garbage, their countries are ridden with debt, and their unemployment is awful. ...Soo why do we care what they think?

I tend to agree with the Americans from 19th - early 20th century... You know, the period where the U.S. became the wealthiest nation in the world in the shortest amount of time, with an almost non existent federal government? Oh, and a negative unemployment rate, as is evidenced by the massive level of immigration. Question. How many social programs were available for immigrants who came here with nothing? Social security? Welfare? Medicare? Medicaid? Food stamps (sorry, nutritional supplement something or others)? Answer. 0. Yet they flourished harder than any other generation IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD. So I really couldn't care less what the Europeans think about what should be done with the economy, because their economies suck, and their economies have never been as healthy as ours were when the government existed almost solely in a defensive capacity.
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Old Feb 26, 2014, 10:51 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Z400Racer37 View Post
... And their economies are garbage, their countries are ridden with debt, and their unemployment is awful. ...Soo why do we care what they think?

I tend to agree with the Americans from 19th - early 20th century... You know, the period where the U.S. became the wealthiest nation in the world in the shortest amount of time, with an almost non existent federal government? Oh, and a negative unemployment rate, as is evidenced by the massive level of immigration. Question. How many social programs were available for immigrants who came here with nothing? Social security? Welfare? Medicare? Medicaid? Food stamps (sorry, nutritional supplement something or others)? Answer. 0. Yet they flourished harder than any other generation IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD. So I really couldn't care less what the Europeans think about what should be done with the economy, because their economies suck, and their economies have never been as healthy as ours were when the government existed almost solely in a defensive capacity.
Not sure if not serious or just not knowing what is talking about
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Old Feb 26, 2014, 11:23 AM   #21
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Not sure if not serious or just not knowing what is talking about
Serious. And I don't see a factual refutation of what was said in that post so your post is invalid.
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Old Feb 27, 2014, 07:55 AM   #22
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Sir, I do not believe you actually are representative of your countrymen.
Whatever.

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Originally Posted by Z400Racer37 View Post
... And their economies are garbage, their countries are ridden with debt, and their unemployment is awful. ...Soo why do we care what they think?
So in the exact same situation as the USA then? Do you even know what you're on about? I've never seen so much baffling nonsense in a post.
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