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Old Apr 20, 2014, 09:21 AM   #1
satcomer
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GM is acting like scum

After hearing/reading about the issue GM To Ask Bankruptcy Court For Lawsuit Protection in their implication in the Faulty Ignition Switch coverup.

I just know I will never own/buy another GM car!
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Old Apr 20, 2014, 09:37 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by satcomer View Post
After hearing/reading about the issue GM To Ask Bankruptcy Court For Lawsuit Protection in their implication in the Faulty Ignition Switch coverup.

I just know I will never own/buy another GM car!
You also not going to buy another Toyota? Because they did the same thing with the faulty gas pedal issue a few years back….

Not excusing GM's behavior though, what they did is pretty bad over a 57 cent part. Fact is most companies will do this. What's cheaper? Deal with the lawsuits or issue a recall? It's all about the cost-benefit analysis. Toyota did it, GM, Ford, etc.
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Old Apr 20, 2014, 09:40 AM   #3
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I just know I will never own/buy another GM car!
I didn't think I'd ever buy a GM car again before this mess, now I'm positive I wont.

And no, I would never buy a Toyota either. You can't get any more boring than Toyota.
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Old Apr 20, 2014, 09:48 AM   #4
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And no, I would never buy a Toyota either. You can't get any more boring than Toyota.
True. But quite a few people went to excuse Toyota over the gas pedal/floor mat issue. Said it was a government witch hunt, etc. But, Toyota did cut costs. They did try to avoid a recall over the issue, etc. So Toyota is forgiven, GM is roasted. Fact is all companies do this.
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Old Apr 20, 2014, 12:54 PM   #5
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You also not going to buy another Toyota? Because they did the same thing with the faulty gas pedal issue a few years backů.

Not excusing GM's behavior though, what they did is pretty bad over a 57 cent part. Fact is most companies will do this. What's cheaper? Deal with the lawsuits or issue a recall? It's all about the cost-benefit analysis. Toyota did it, GM, Ford, etc.
A significant amount of people probably already forgot about the Toyota pedal problems and in a year or three, most will probably forget about GM's issues as well.

Especially in terms of numbers - there's going to be millions of other cars recalled by other manufacturers this year and the following years.
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Old Apr 20, 2014, 12:57 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by quagmire View Post
Not excusing GM's behavior though, what they did is pretty bad over a 57 cent part. Fact is most companies will do this. What's cheaper? Deal with the lawsuits or issue a recall? It's all about the cost-benefit analysis. Toyota did it, GM, Ford, etc.
Say what ? Toyota declared bankruptcy and was relieved of legacy obligations ?

I don't think so.

-t
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Old Apr 20, 2014, 01:06 PM   #7
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Say what ? Toyota declared bankruptcy and was relieved of legacy obligations ?

I don't think so.

-t

And if Toyota did go through the same bankruptcy process as GM( and Chrysler) did, I bet they would do the same thing. They are a business. They will do everything within their power to reduce the damage their own idiocy caused. It's morally wrong, etc. But we know big corporations don't do things that are morally right, etc. Or else they would have recalled the defective pedals(Toyota) and ignition switches( GM) in a timely manner( or of course fix the issue before the car entered production like with the Cobalt…) and claim responsibility instead of hiding behind a technicality.

What I can't stand is the double standard. Toyota is forgiven, blame is on the government and called a witch hunt, etc. GM is roasted, called a POS, etc. GM deserves it, but the public shouldn't be going, " I will never buy GM again because of them hiding this issue that killed people" while driving a 2014 Toyota Camry after Toyota tried to hide their defective gas pedals that killed people.
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Last edited by quagmire; Apr 20, 2014 at 01:12 PM.
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Old Apr 20, 2014, 01:12 PM   #8
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I don't think what GM is doing is ethical or great, but at this point, it's legal and lawful.

What pisses me off is that they took the government's money.
That should have never happened. They should have had a REAL bankruptcy.

-t
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Old Apr 20, 2014, 01:18 PM   #9
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I don't think what GM is doing is ethical or great, but at this point, it's legal and lawful.

What pisses me off is that they took the government's money.
That should have never happened. They should have had a REAL bankruptcy.

-t
It was a real bankruptcy. Just instead of the banks, etc financing GM through the process, it was the government. Why? Because the banks were also failing due to the recession. The only bankruptcy GM would have gone through was Chapter 7 without the governments support.

What happened was the government created a new company. This new company bought General Motors Corporations good assets. GM Corporation became Motors Liquidation and stayed in bankruptcy for several years before finally closing down after the liquidation was finished. The company that the government formed was renamed GM Company once the sale was complete. It was the same process Chrysler went through before GM did.
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Old Apr 20, 2014, 01:51 PM   #10
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You also not going to buy another Toyota? Because they did the same thing with the faulty gas pedal issue a few years backů.
Did Toyota ignore it for 10 years like GM did?
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Old Apr 20, 2014, 01:58 PM   #11
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Did Toyota ignore it for 10 years like GM did?
No, but to me that doesn't matter. I may be a bit overly cynical, but if Toyota could have gotten away with it for 10 years, they would have. I just don't have that much faith in corporations in doing the right thing if it costs them more money than dealing with the issue on an individual basis whether it is when it breaks or when they settle a lawsuit.
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Old Apr 20, 2014, 01:59 PM   #12
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It was a real bankruptcy.
Well, real, maybe, but not an ordinary one.

Bond holders got shafted, and Unions were the preferred creditors.
Pretty much the opposite of a normal "real" bankruptcy.

-t
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Old Apr 20, 2014, 02:03 PM   #13
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Well, real, maybe, but not an ordinary one.

Bond holders got shafted, and Unions were the preferred creditors.
Pretty much the opposite of a normal "real" bankruptcy.

-t
Bondholders got shafted because they were not the biggest creditor anymore. The government was, thus they had the power in the direction of the proceedings.

I personally liked the VEBA fund( which pays for the unions healthcare) getting a 10% stake in the company. It would act as a check against the UAW. If the UAW did anything to hurt GM's stock price, they just hurt themselves because they just reduced the value of their healthcare fund due to the reduced stock value. Bondholders of old GM also got a 10% stake in new GM.
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Old Apr 20, 2014, 05:21 PM   #14
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So Toyota is forgiven...
Toyota ended up paying a $1.2 billion fine. Yeah, totally forgiven.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...#axzz2zT3gdOpw
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Old Apr 20, 2014, 05:45 PM   #15
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Toyota ended up paying a $1.2 billion fine. Yeah, totally forgiven.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...#axzz2zT3gdOpw
Public opinion, not the government.
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Old Apr 20, 2014, 07:18 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by quagmire View Post
Public opinion, not the government.
In spite of your opinion that it doesn't matter that GM knew about it for 10 years, I think that is the main reason why most view GM as scum.
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Old Apr 20, 2014, 07:36 PM   #17
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In spite of your opinion that it doesn't matter that GM knew about it for 10 years, I think that is the main reason why most view GM as scum.
GM has deserved to be seen as scum. I haven't been arguing against that. I have been arguing over the double standard with Toyota and their own scandal with public opinion. Who knows in a few years maybe people will forget this scandal like malman states like people have with Toyota. Maybe they will think it was a government witch hunt like some people believe with Toyota. Who knows.

Both companies knew of problems that ended up getting people killed. Both companies fought tooth and nail to prevent recalls from happening. The length of time of when they knew of the issue is irrelevant due to that in my view. Both tried to hide them. One was just better at hiding it for longer.
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Old Apr 20, 2014, 08:02 PM   #18
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The length of time of when they knew of the issue is irrelevant due to that in my view.
I would say that the length of time is quite relevant to how the public views GM.
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Old Apr 20, 2014, 11:25 PM   #19
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Isn't GM's coverup a lot more severe then what Toyota did.
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Old Apr 21, 2014, 05:49 AM   #20
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Isn't GM's coverup a lot more severe then what Toyota did.
I think any coverup that causes deaths is severe.
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Old Apr 21, 2014, 01:05 PM   #21
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I love my Chevy Malibu. I, for one, like GM products.
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Old Apr 21, 2014, 01:29 PM   #22
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I would say that the length of time is quite relevant to how the public views GM.
Not for most people. 10 months or 10 years. Same thing in th eyes of the public.
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Old Apr 21, 2014, 04:16 PM   #23
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I think any coverup that causes deaths is severe.
Did Toyota really cover it up. Didn't they announce investigations right away?
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Old Apr 21, 2014, 05:22 PM   #24
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Did Toyota really cover it up. Didn't they announce investigations right away?
Documents and memo's leaked have shown that they did know about it since at least 2007 if not earlier if I am remembering correctly. They only came out when these accidents gained national attention.

They also got the Audi treatment of FUD being spread about the drive by wire system malfunctioning.
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Old Apr 21, 2014, 06:07 PM   #25
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a little off topic

Screw GM and screw their unions, buy Honda's, Toyota's or any other brand that are built in the US by non union labor!!
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