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Old Jan 11, 2003, 10:48 AM   #1
Moxiemike
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Every 6 mos?

I was thinking, after reading an article at RobGalbraith's diphoto web site, about the G4 debacle back in 1999 and the tremors we're still feeling from it today.

In 1999, Apple release, if you remember, a 400, 450 and 500 G4.

They later recanted and dropped the 500 from the lineup, and added a 350. So we have 350, 400 and 450 g4s. That lasted until 2000, when we finally got 500 mhz g4s in Feb or somewhere around there.

Then that held until January of 2001. Of course, we got dualie 450s and 500s but... no significant incease in clockspeed from August of 1999 until the DP450 was discontinued during MWSF 2001, when we got the 466, 533, 667 and 733.

From there, we got a revision around 6mos later, getting 733, 867 and dual 800 before finally breaking the 1ghz barrier in Jan 2002.

Since then, we've got a 250mhz boost at max.

I think that, since Apple had forced its loyal users to wait almost 18months with no signiifcant upgrade in speed... well... they should do something for the customer base and state that they will release PowerMac pro towers on a faster upgrade scale.... say every 3 months. or 4 months. I'd be completely happy with that, as we seriously need to do some catching up.

i can live with my Dual1000. I think it rocks. But the numbers of Galbraiths site are pretty sad. And while i'm not gonna go buy a PC (apple has thoroughly brainwashed me. ) I know other people who would easily be swayed by this... it's VERY realworld. And very embarassing to a point.

http://www.robgalbraith.com/diginews..._07_macpc.html

I think if Apple would release a statement saying that we'd get upgrades every 3 months... well, we could start with the rumored 1.40 ghz machine in feb. In May get 1.7's, and in Sept get a 2.0ghz....
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Old Jan 11, 2003, 11:21 AM   #2
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Re: Every 6 mos?

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Originally posted by Moxiemike


They later recanted and dropped the 500 from the lineup, and added a 350.

I think if Apple would release a statement saying that we'd get upgrades every 3 months... well, we could start with the rumored 1.40 ghz machine in feb. In May get 1.7's, and in Sept get a 2.0ghz....
I didn't remember a 350mhz G4...but looked at Apple History.com and you are right...wow.

Anyway...releasing a statement such as the one you are proposing would hurt Apple because everybody would be waiting to the next best computer at the same price...and some people will wait forever...which means no $$$ for Apple. Currently we can only speculate on when they will come out...and that helps Apple and hurts them as well.
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Old Jan 11, 2003, 11:28 AM   #3
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Re: Re: Every 6 mos?

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I didn't remember a 350mhz G4...but looked at Apple History.com and you are right...wow.

Anyway...releasing a statement such as the one you are proposing would hurt Apple because everybody would be waiting to the next best computer at the same price...and some people will wait forever...which means no $$$ for Apple. Currently we can only speculate on when they will come out...and that helps Apple and hurts them as well.
you're right on a couple of levels. But i know people who wait to buy and will only buy when, say, their machine is doubled.

However, because of lack of roadmap and generally "lack of public support" for the G4, many are still using their 450's and 400's.

I think if apple just even did a little more.... people might be inclined to buy a G4 today as opposed to wait a 6-8 months for a g5, then wait 6-8 months for the 970 and so on. Ya know??

I think something has to be done on the pro line...and really dunno what can be done.

But it seems like the good will and the "we'll wait this out" mentality is disappearing quickly.

edit: I remember the 350 well. We bought one at my company when a StarMax died, and since i was "the main man" there, my G3 266 got handed down to the other designer guy and I got the G4. I remember NO ONE having them in stock (november of 99) and only one place had one 350. I remember having to run to their office to get it and stuff... and since it was like, I think $1699 and our budget was $4500 I bought a bunch of other goodies too. (max ram, apple 21" monitor, adobe design collection. Was fun.

Apple shopping spree. But yea. the 350 was pretty much a dog. not much faster than the 266 we had... and about as fast as the 366mhz G3 upgraded tower I had at home.

Last edited by Moxiemike; Jan 11, 2003 at 11:31 AM.
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Old Jan 11, 2003, 12:07 PM   #4
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Re: Re: Re: Every 6 mos?

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Originally posted by Moxiemike


you're right on a couple of levels. But i know people who wait to buy and will only buy when, say, their machine is doubled.

However, because of lack of roadmap and generally "lack of public support" for the G4, many are still using their 450's and 400's.

I think if apple just even did a little more.... people might be inclined to buy a G4 today as opposed to wait a 6-8 months for a g5, then wait 6-8 months for the 970 and so on. Ya know??

I think that is fair ie waiting for your machine to be doubled...but with Apple...that takes forever. With a PC, it is alot quicker, though now I think Apple has a better chance to double their Ghz in 2 years than Intel. However, minimum specs on an Apple, to run updated software, change at a slower pace than PCs...which is cool.
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Old Jan 11, 2003, 12:18 PM   #5
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Every 6 mos?

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Originally posted by JSRockit


I think that is fair ie waiting for your machine to be doubled...but with Apple...that takes forever. With a PC, it is alot quicker, though now I think Apple has a better chance to double their Ghz in 2 years than Intel. However, minimum specs on an Apple, to run updated software, change at a slower pace than PCs...which is cool.
True. but i'm worried about people who are scared to buy macs since they lag in speed. and man, i used an iMac 700 the other day at a copy shop. It was nasty.
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Old Jan 11, 2003, 12:22 PM   #6
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Every 6 mos?

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Originally posted by Moxiemike


True. but i'm worried about people who are scared to buy macs since they lag in speed. and man, i used an iMac 700 the other day at a copy shop. It was nasty.
Nasty...good or bad?
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Old Jan 11, 2003, 01:04 PM   #7
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Every 6 mos?

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Nasty...good or bad?
bad. seemed sooooo slow

m
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Old Jan 11, 2003, 01:11 PM   #8
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Every 6 mos?

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Originally posted by Moxiemike


bad. seemed sooooo slow

m
My iBook at 700mhz doesn't seem bad...it is just as fast as my 1Ghz P3M laptop...which is still used by Intel. I guess it is all about what you are used to.
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Old Jan 11, 2003, 01:46 PM   #9
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i guess if you are benchmarking according to the 1.25Ghz dually sitting next to it, then it should bl00dy well seem slow.

if i did office, safari and occasionally iapps then a 700G4 would be plenty.

I do FCP, DVDSP etc so for me it is not. i have a DP867 o/c to 1Ghz.

think consumer not big a$$, big app user, big UNIX geek guy like urself. ok.
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Old Jan 11, 2003, 01:48 PM   #10
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Every 6 mos?

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Originally posted by Moxiemike


bad. seemed sooooo slow

m
any idea how much ram?

what were you doing with it?

my parents have one (upstairs)... and i know what you mean. at the same time, i think ram helps greatly. as you know of course. but i doubt a copy shop would have much of it...
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Old Jan 11, 2003, 11:54 PM   #11
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Re: Every 6 mos?

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Originally posted by Moxiemike

I think if Apple would release a statement saying that we'd get upgrades every 3 months... well, we could start with the rumored 1.40 ghz machine in feb. In May get 1.7's, and in Sept get a 2.0ghz....
PCs can move that fast because they use amd or intel chips which are always being upgraded

but motorola is so slow and even if apple had the supply of fast chips, they are much to small to retool and keep up with a dell or hp-compaq
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Old Jan 12, 2003, 01:22 AM   #12
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Re: Re: Every 6 mos?

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Originally posted by jefhatfield


PCs can move that fast because they use amd or intel chips which are always being upgraded

but motorola is so slow and even if apple had the supply of fast chips, they are much to small to retool and keep up with a dell or hp-compaq
yeah intel and amd are kicking motorola's a**. i have a dual ghz and it is perfectly fine. all i do is browse the web, chat with my friends, listen to music, iphoto, just little things, nothing huge. right now for consumers, the speeds are fine right now. now i understand the maya users and photoshop users where the pc's are killing the g4, and time means money so people need these g4's to be fast. i just wish apple could compete with speeds like amd and intel withougt having to have dual processors. It is really hard for me to sell a 700-800 mhz imac to someone who can go down the street to best buy and get a 2-3ghz pc for near the same price with much more stuff (not the great software the mac coems with). It is just really embarrasing when i hand someone a spec sheet and they say, "Jon, i see your iMac here is 800mhz while this dell over here 2.8ghz plus i get double the ram, more drives, printer, and all the other stuff they can cram in there.) It's only the real techines who can differinciate the specs on a pc and mac and see they are somewhat similar, and the people who are fed up with windows that i can sell machiens too. But apple is not stupid, no one with 4 billion in cash is stupid, and apple knows they are behind, they are just keeping us satisfied while they whip something up in the kitchen for us. I expect this to be a great year for apple. steve even said himself he has some tricks up his sleeve in the processor market. lets just hope those tricks up his sleeve isnt more 8 pound heat sinks with overclocked processors.

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Old Jan 12, 2003, 12:46 PM   #13
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my guess is that if sj wants to blow people away, he will use the ibm 970 for pro stuff and reach 2 ghz

and use the motorola g4 in all consumer machines and do away with the ibm g3

...and do all this before christmas 2003

i am happy with apple for what it does for me, but i could understand gamers and maya users who want the faster speed
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Old Jan 12, 2003, 01:08 PM   #14
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Every 6 mos?

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Originally posted by jelloshotsrule


any idea how much ram?

what were you doing with it?

my parents have one (upstairs)... and i know what you mean. at the same time, i think ram helps greatly. as you know of course. but i doubt a copy shop would have much of it...
little late replying... but it had 768 ram. Which I thought you be efficient. But Illustrator 10 was SUCH a doggy. And AI10 works very snappily on my dual 450 with 512 mb of ram....
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Old Jan 12, 2003, 01:10 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by jefhatfield
my guess is that if sj wants to blow people away, he will use the ibm 970 for pro stuff and reach 2 ghz

and use the motorola g4 in all consumer machines and do away with the ibm g3

...and do all this before christmas 2003

i am happy with apple for what it does for me, but i could understand gamers and maya users who want the faster speed
I think he would need to do it before July 2003. September at the latest.....
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Old Jan 12, 2003, 01:14 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Moxiemike


I think he would need to do it before July 2003. September at the latest.....
you know us macrumors types...we are always months ahead of apple

and apple, where is my dual processor tibook?
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Old Jan 14, 2003, 05:21 PM   #17
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it's simple: instead of apple having 3 models they sell with the older ones just vanishing, keep the whole CPU spectrum avbailable with continuous decrease in price for the older CPUs while introducing new high cost ones (hint: as it works in the PC world)
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Old Jan 14, 2003, 06:11 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by thies
it's simple: instead of apple having 3 models they sell with the older ones just vanishing, keep the whole CPU spectrum avbailable with continuous decrease in price for the older CPUs while introducing new high cost ones (hint: as it works in the PC world)
Right, because the inventory is still sitting around collecting dust.
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Old Jan 14, 2003, 08:25 PM   #19
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it's not about the inventory, it's about consumer satisfaction.
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Old Jan 14, 2003, 09:13 PM   #20
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Every 6 mos?

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Originally posted by JSRockit


I think that is fair ie waiting for your machine to be doubled...but with Apple...that takes forever. With a PC, it is alot quicker, though now I think Apple has a better chance to double their Ghz in 2 years than Intel. However, minimum specs on an Apple, to run updated software, change at a slower pace than PCs...which is cool.
Hmm... That would mean that there would have to be a 2Ghz G4 by the time Intel would release a 4Ghz P4. I don't know, but Intel is no longer going to concentrate solely on clock speed. Hence the introduction of Hyperthreading on 3.06Ghz P4 and the Banias project.
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Old Jan 14, 2003, 09:21 PM   #21
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Akk- I am posting again...

ok, I said 6 months ago I'd buy a 1.6 dual, but that has still yet to happen, they have still yet to relase it, and umm. my 450 G4 still works fine (actually a 350 G3 upgraded)

now I think I'll let this little bastard run into the ground. I love Apple and all, but it really needs to do some major ovehauling to get me interested in spending any more major dough

I know more here in H'ville that say the same thing. Everyone's tired of the little bumps, and just not interested in spending that money.
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Old Jan 14, 2003, 09:53 PM   #22
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Every 6 mos?

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Originally posted by yosoyjay


Hmm... That would mean that there would have to be a 2Ghz G4 by the time Intel would release a 4Ghz P4. I don't know, but Intel is no longer going to concentrate solely on clock speed. Hence the introduction of Hyperthreading on 3.06Ghz P4 and the Banias project.
No, it would mean that Intel would have to run at 6.12Ghz and Apple would have to run at 2Ghz.

Intel will continue to focus on clock speed on the desktops...until they are no longer on top. In regards to the Banias...of course not...but that is like a Crusoe replacement.
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Old Jan 14, 2003, 10:33 PM   #23
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Every 6 mos?

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No, it would mean that Intel would have to run at 6.12Ghz and Apple would have to run at 2Ghz.

Intel will continue to focus on clock speed on the desktops...until they are no longer on top. In regards to the Banias...of course not...but that is like a Crusoe replacement.
crusoe has made its way slowly into laptops and at a certain point, people will not accept 2 hour runtimes from the latest P4...especially once banias comes out and people get used to not having to always bring their adapter
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Old Jan 14, 2003, 10:39 PM   #24
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Every 6 mos?

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No, it would mean that Intel would have to run at 6.12Ghz and Apple would have to run at 2Ghz.

Intel will continue to focus on clock speed on the desktops...until they are no longer on top. In regards to the Banias...of course not...but that is like a Crusoe replacement.
and from what i read in a cnet article, cant remember the link. intel's new technology is gonna have a 800mhz system bus. dont know how much it will make a difference but it sure wont hurt it any.

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Old Jan 15, 2003, 07:02 PM   #25
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Every 6 mos?

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Originally posted by iJon

and from what i read in a cnet article, cant remember the link. intel's new technology is gonna have a 800mhz system bus. dont know how much it will make a difference but it sure wont hurt it any.

iJon
Yep...read that too...and I'm buying a 867mhz G4 with a 133mhz bus? Somethings afoul here.
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