Windows on MacBook Pro / iMac?

[T-Stex]

Hey guys. As much as I love my Mac, and don't ever want to buy a Windows machine, I think there are some situations where using Windows is desirable. To what extent, if any, will Windows (or other operating systems) be able to be used on the new Intel-based systems. I recall hearing about the ability to boot from a firewire drive (?). What possibilities, if any, does this offer as far as a secondary operating system?

[MacTruck]

Well its official. You can't run windows xp or vista on the new intel macs. That really pisses me off. So whats the point? The only thing I was looking forward to from these new intel macs was the ability to abondon my pc machines and use macs exclusively and now it seems its not possible. Why does apple have to make this stuff so difficult? I think it was very stupid to not allow XP to be installed. Yeah they said they won't stop xp from being installed but it looks like they did. I don't see the benefit of going intel now. I mean really, I don't see the powermac line being that much faster than a quad G5 powerpc.

This sucks. Having 2 types of machines to run the software I need is a joke. APPLE WE NEED WINDOWS whether you like it or not.


http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardw...-coreduo.ars/7

[yellow]

Supposedly there IS support for EFI within Windows XP SP2. I still think it's early to say "It'll never happen". I mean, what's the incentive to NOT make it happen? I'm sure MIcrosoft wouldn't mind selling Windows to even more people, right?

[BakedBeans]

I really dont think ARS makes it official that you cant - it wont be long before its running on macs - a week or so i would say.

[edesignuk]

Originally Posted by MacTruck

Well its official. You can't run windows xp or vista on the new intel macs. That really pisses me off. So whats the point? The only thing I was looking forward to from these new intel macs was the ability to abondon my pc machines and use macs exclusively and now it seems its not possible. Why does apple have to make this stuff so difficult? I think it was very stupid to not allow XP to be installed. Yeah they said they won't stop xp from being installed but it looks like they did. I don't see the benefit of going intel now. I mean really, I don't see the powermac line being that much faster than a quad G5 powerpc.

This sucks. Having 2 types of machines to run the software I need is a joke. APPLE WE NEED WINDOWS whether you like it or not.


http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardw...-coreduo.ars/7

*stomps feet* my new mac is a POS because it can't run windows, boo hoo. waa waa.

That is absurd. If they'd stuck with IBM and the G6 came along which (shock) you couldn't run Windows on with ease, I trust you'd bleet just the same? That it's a complete outrage that Apple would deny you the ability to run Windows? Because that's how I see this argument, just because the hardware is probably capable of running it doesn't mean you should have any right to expect that to be the case.

For god sake, get over it. And wait for VMWare/VPC.

[BakedBeans]

Originally Posted by edesignuk

*stomps feet* my new mac is a POS because it can't run windows, boo hoo. waa waa.

That is absurd. If they'd stuck with IBM and the G6 came along which (shock) you couldn't run Windows on with ease, I trust you'd bleet just the same? That it's a complete outrage that Apple would deny you the ability to run Windows? Because that's how I see this argument, just because the hardware is probably capable of running it doesn't mean you should have any right to expect that to be the case.

For god sake, get over it. And wait for VMWare/VPC.

They did however say that they wouldnt stop it (and i dont think they have). i think once some things have been ironed out it should run - it will be helpful if it can (not for me really)

[edesignuk]

Originally Posted by BakedBeans

They did however say that they wouldnt stop it (and i dont think they have). i think once some things have been ironed out it should run - it will be helpful if it can (not for me really)

Which is great, and good.

Chucking your toys out the pram because one person said it doesn't work at this stage is just ridiculous though (not referring to you, obviously).

[eva01]

Originally Posted by MacTruck

This sucks. Having 2 types of machines to run the software I need is a joke. APPLE WE NEED WINDOWS whether you like it or not.

i don't need windows I don't think i own a windows based computer.

Actually no I don't.

[MacTruck]

Originally Posted by eva01

i don't need windows I don't think i own a windows based computer.

Actually no I don't.

Then you are lucky I guess. Believe it or not, some people do. I don't think its that confusing.

[MacTruck]

Originally Posted by edesignuk

*stomps feet* my new mac is a POS because it can't run windows, boo hoo. waa waa.

That is absurd. If they'd stuck with IBM and the G6 came along which (shock) you couldn't run Windows on with ease, I trust you'd bleet just the same? That it's a complete outrage that Apple would deny you the ability to run Windows? Because that's how I see this argument, just because the hardware is probably capable of running it doesn't mean you should have any right to expect that to be the case.

For god sake, get over it. And wait for VMWare/VPC.

Ok. Don't know if that was necessary but look at it this way. Apple back in the day made a big deal out of windows compatibility. Remember the dos card in the 6100s? If they went that far why not go just a little and add support for booting windows on these machines? Its not difficult. On that note since osx runs on intel now why can't they make windows software run inside osx? Surely its possible. They could just create some kind of registry for these apps that they would recognize and install to. That would be great infact would be even better. I know some of you would die before you would install windows stuff be in real life there are many many apps that are pc only. Go to work at any large corp and see what software they run. Finding a mac install disc for any of those apps is like finding gold under your seat. I hate windows and love osx but having to use my pc for real work and mac for play when the mac is far superior is irritating. I want to sell my pc stuff once and for all and I thought the intel transition would allow that. I don't want to run stuff on my mac based on hacks. They never work. Everytime a new os update comes out all hacks stop working. If I wanted to run based on hacks I would still be using my powermac 8500 with a hack of osx. Its not really practical. If the new intel macs supported it out of the box it would be an entirely different story.

All the people who need windows software surely agree and those who don't need it will surely flame. It's just the way it is I guess.

[MacRumorUser]

Originally Posted by eva01

i don't need windows I don't think i own a windows based computer.

Actually no I don't.

There is software that just doesn't have a comparable alternative on the mac. Some of the audio mastering suites on the pc (wavelab, cd architect) aren't available.. If they were I'd be PC free too...

[GFLPraxis]

Originally Posted by MacTruck

Well its official. You can't run windows xp or vista on the new intel macs. That really pisses me off. So whats the point? The only thing I was looking forward to from these new intel macs was the ability to abondon my pc machines and use macs exclusively and now it seems its not possible. Why does apple have to make this stuff so difficult? I think it was very stupid to not allow XP to be installed. Yeah they said they won't stop xp from being installed but it looks like they did. I don't see the benefit of going intel now. I mean really, I don't see the powermac line being that much faster than a quad G5 powerpc.

This sucks. Having 2 types of machines to run the software I need is a joke. APPLE WE NEED WINDOWS whether you like it or not.


http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardw...-coreduo.ars/7

Hey, calm down man, Apple didn't block anything. They used EFI instead of BIOS- even Microsoft is switching to EFI. Windows XP 64-bit edition and Windows Vista support EFI and future PC's will be EFI, Apple just beat Microsoft to the punch. You should be able to install Vista without a problem, and when we get 64 bit Intel Macs, Windows XP 64-bit edition without a problem. There is already talk of hacking Windows XP to run on the current Intel iMacs, and most importantly, you can still run CrossOver Office when it is released to run Windows apps on a Mac. AND Virtual PC will run at full speed.

They DID NOT put any blocks to stop you from installing Windows.

If they went that far why not go just a little and add support for booting windows on these machines? Its not difficult.

They'd have to revert to BIOS and lose a LOT of good hardware capabilities, including boot from Firewire and stuff.

On that note since osx runs on intel now why can't they make windows software run inside osx? Surely its possible. They could just create some kind of registry for these apps that they would recognize and install to. That would be great infact would be even better.

Third parties are doing that now. Watch for WINE and CrossOver Office and Cedega.

[Morn]

All we can tell from that article is that the imac won't boot the beta vista install dvd or xp install cd.
BTW, I expect apple to not use means to prevent me running something on the hardware that can run. But we don't know if they did that, yet. It's just EFI. Nobody even knows how to boot into EFI yet, for all we know there's a way to enable a legecy bios feature in it.

[AnotherMortal]

Originally Posted by Morn

All we can tell from that article is that the imac won't boot the beta vista install dvd or xp install cd.
BTW, I expect apple to not use means to prevent me running something on the hardware that can run. But we don't know if they did that, yet. It's just EFI. Nobody even knows how to boot into EFI yet, for all we know there's a way to enable a legecy bios feature in it.

Someone found a way to access EFI. http://nak.journalspace.com/?cmd=dis...07&entryid=407

For those who care, there's an ongoing thread at osx86project.org about booting the new macs to any other OS besides OS X, and then building from there. http://forum.osx86project.org/index....ic=6956&st=260

[letterbox]

Originally Posted by MacTruck

On that note since osx runs on intel now why can't they make windows software run inside osx? Surely its possible. They could just create some kind of registry for these apps that they would recognize and install to. That would be great infact would be even better.

Do you think Apple wants to have to put out support for Windows on Apple Hardware? Before you open your trap, there are enough bumblers who can't figure out to use their Mac, and there is no way that Apple is going to Officially add support for Windows because then they'd be stuck having to hand out Windows support...buh, buh, buh....Yes, they would.

[johnnybluejeans]

Originally Posted by letterbox

Do you think Apple wants to have to put out support for Windows on Apple Hardware? Before you open your trap, there are enough bumblers who can't figure out to use their Mac, and there is no way that Apple is going to Officially add support for Windows because then they'd be stuck having to hand out Windows support...buh, buh, buh....Yes, they would.

I love when people are complete asses and are completely wrong:

http://www.apple.com/macosx/applications/virtualpc/

[AnotherMortal]

I think the general concern most users share is that if Apple were to encourage Windows installs on their hardware, software developers may lose faith in the OS X platform, and only develop for Windows. This would eventually turn OS X into an open source software-only platform, or cause the death of the best OS on the market.

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

From MacBytes earlier today: OpenOSX ships WinTel 2.0 for Mactels

[letterbox]

Originally Posted by johnnybluejeans

I love when people are complete asses and are completely wrong:

http://www.apple.com/macosx/applications/virtualpc/

How does that make me an ass or completely wrong? Apple doesn't support Virtual PC, they just sell it on their site. If you call Apple with questions about Virtual PC, they will turn you to Microsoft because Apple is the reseller, not the manufacturer, so no, Apple does not support Windows and will not support Windows on Apple Hardware.

[Spanky Deluxe]

If you want to follow the progress being made on installing Vista on to an Intel iMac check out this thread over at the osx86project forums: http://forum.osx86project.org/index.php?showtopic=6956

Basically the Vista Beta 1 disk does not boot up yet, the rumors of Windows XP Media Centre supporting EFI are a falacy and the suspected problem right now is that the EFI on iMacs doesn't currently support UDF or El Torito volumes.

You cannot get to the EFI Shell on Intel Macs right now but there does seem to be a trick that's just been worked out to get into the EFI menu:
http://nak.journalspace.com/?cmd=dis...07&entryid=407

So progress has been made and if we're lucky all that will be needed is a UDF or El Torito EFI driver or maybe just a custom boot loader such as Linux's ELILO.


Spanky

[limulus]

Originally Posted by MacTruck

On that note since osx runs on intel now why can't they make windows software run inside osx? Surely its possible. They could just create some kind of registry for these apps that they would recognize and install to.

It's just not that simple. Making it so that Windows applications could run side-by-side with Mac OS X apps would be a major software engineering challenge, to say the least. Even if Apple could do it, they wouldn't want to because no developers in their right mind would write Mac OS X applications when they could write their application once for Windows and have it run on both platforms. It'd wind up kill OS X.

I don't want to run stuff on my mac based on hacks. They never work. Everytime a new os update comes out all hacks stop working. If I wanted to run based on hacks I would still be using my powermac 8500 with a hack of osx. Its not really practical. If the new intel macs supported it out of the box it would be an entirely different story.

Getting Windows to run on an Intel Mac will not be a hack in the likes of getting OS X to run on old hardware. It's extremely unlikely that OS X updates would break a dual boot Windows installation.