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Old Jan 16, 2006, 10:12 PM   #1
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Apple to exploit Guernsey loophole




Category: News and Press Releases
Link: Apple to exploit Guernsey loophole
Description:: Apple, the US computer giant, is planning to set up business on Guernsey to exploit a tax loophole that will allow it to sell VAT-free music to British consumers.

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Old Jan 16, 2006, 10:37 PM   #2
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Go Apple! I'm in the U.S., but I'm all for users across the pond (not my pond, the other pond...) having lower prices in the iTMS (that is, if it does translate to a direct lowering of prices).
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Old Jan 16, 2006, 11:05 PM   #3
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I seem to recall other retaillers in the past (e.g. cdwow.co.uk) being burnt at the stake for using loopholes for un-fair competition within the UK - in the UK retailers eyes at least.
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Old Jan 16, 2006, 11:06 PM   #4
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Screw the VAT. What a horrible tax to have to pay. Then again, US Oil prices are probably pricier than that VAT right now..
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Old Jan 16, 2006, 11:36 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onizuka
Screw the VAT. What a horrible tax to have to pay. Then again, US Oil prices are probably pricier than that VAT right now..
Off topic but... Gas prices are typically much cheaper in the U.S. even during price spikes. I haven't actually checked lately but I took a vacation in Ireland a year and a half ago... petrol was 1 Euro per Liter. At that time 1 Euro was worth about $1.25. So they were charging about $4.75 per gallon. The only bright side is that the countries are small, so traveling all over was nothing compared to driving from the East coast to the West coast in the U.S.

I believe there were suggestions recently about introducing a per mile tax in England (or perhaps just London) to discourage traffic in the city (and make more money of course). We've got it good in the states... especially when you consider that many people here think nothing of paying $6-$8 a gallon for bottled water (about 6 20oz bottles at $1 a piece or more).
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Old Jan 16, 2006, 11:39 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onizuka
Screw the VAT. What a horrible tax to have to pay. Then again, US Oil prices are probably pricier than that VAT right now..
US oil prices? Uh try paying $6.36 a Gallon for petrol and then tell me your gettin a raw deal

Thats what it cost in my local filling station, and in some places its more expensive!

VAT is the pits though, its so annoying to have to pay it.

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Old Jan 17, 2006, 12:21 AM   #7
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Yah I bite my tongue now a days about gas prices. There are obvious trade-offs in such things as mass transit, smaller country and such but still. I lube up, grin and bare it when I got to the pumps because it could, and will be so much worse.
Concerning VAT. One word: Ick. Of course I don't really understand the nature of VAT and its 12AM so. . I'll have to wikipedia it tomorrow.
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Old Jan 17, 2006, 12:45 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by SiliconAddict
Yah I bite my tongue now a days about gas prices. There are obvious trade-offs in such things as mass transit, smaller country and such but still. I lube up, grin and bare it when I got to the pumps because it could, and will be so much worse.
Concerning VAT. One word: Ick. Of course I don't really understand the nature of VAT and its 12AM so. . I'll have to wikipedia it tomorrow.
Value Added Tax but it is on some things and not on others from my understanding. I think our GST or Goods and Services Tax is much less of a beauracratic cockup and far easier to follow and only 12.5%. I think from memory that VAT is like 17% on top of the price of the purchased goods.

Gas is fairly price in NZ too. Around 1.39 a litre depending on whether it is unleaded 91 or a bit more for unleaded 98. NZ dollar is currently buying 69c US
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Old Jan 17, 2006, 12:58 AM   #9
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It'll still probably be more expensive than the Ireland store The Brits get such a ripoff on iTMS. 1 is about 70p, so you guys have to pay 1.15! Far as I remember, even the US have to pay more than we do
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Old Jan 17, 2006, 01:53 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBytes


Category: News and Press Releases
Link: Apple to exploit Guernsey loophole
Description:: Apple, the US computer giant, is planning to set up business on Guernsey to exploit a tax loophole that will allow it to sell VAT-free music to British consumers.

Posted on MacBytes.com
Approved by Mudbug
Awww, isn't that nice and sweet of Mr. Apple!

Well actually it is, but, maybe Apple should address the situation and sort out the re-delivering of goods to the Channel Islands at the same time. I am, of course, assuming that is still the case!

But of course I'd be more than happy to take advantage of not paying the VAT on my iTMS purchases - always a good thing to save a few coppers.
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Old Jan 17, 2006, 02:18 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winmacguy
Value Added Tax but it is on some things and not on others from my understanding. I think our GST or Goods and Services Tax is much less of a beauracratic cockup and far easier to follow and only 12.5%. I think from memory that VAT is like 17% on top of the price of the purchased goods...snip...US
VAT in the UK is 17.5%, but in Europe it can be higher , AFAIR it's 22.5% in Denmark? Slightly disturbing though, I bought something online, and I'm sure it was from Apple? (but struggling to remember, possibly dotmac account?) and they rounded the VAT up to a "unified across Europe" 20%.
Although VAT is a horrible catch all tax, petrol prices in the UK have a far bigger tax applied than VAT. In the UK we are close on 90p/litre unleaded...in Gibraltar the other month it was 47p unleaded, and diesel was even cheaper. The UK government is creaming it and us
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Old Jan 17, 2006, 02:21 AM   #12
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I see that Amazon now delivers products from Jersey if they're less than £18, in order to avoid tax. Is this the same loophole?
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Old Jan 17, 2006, 02:48 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nermal
I see that Amazon now delivers products from Jersey if they're less than 18, in order to avoid tax. Is this the same loophole?
Certainly is, I'd recommend the Amazon Jersey to all who are able to take advantage of it. Even when purchasing multiple items, as each item is sent individually.

Ordered a boat load of stuff for Chrimbo, took two days from ordering but it's a killer for the postie - it amounted to 13 individual packages he had to deliver in one shot...
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Old Jan 17, 2006, 02:50 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 24C
Although VAT is a horrible catch all tax, petrol prices in the UK have a far bigger tax applied than VAT. In the UK we are close on 90p/litre unleaded...in Gibraltar the other month it was 47p unleaded, and diesel was even cheaper. The UK government is creaming it and us
To digress a little, it wasn't that long ago [a matter of weeks] that some forecourts were selling diesel [my unfortunate fuel of choice] for nigh on 1.00/litre!!!!
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Old Jan 17, 2006, 05:56 AM   #15
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Looks like they are denying it now -

http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index...e&NewsID=13613
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Old Jan 17, 2006, 06:54 AM   #16
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Gas in Canada this summer was 1.30$ a Litre, (possibly even more!)
for a period of time during the Katrina disaster.
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Old Jan 17, 2006, 07:55 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Danksi
I seem to recall other retaillers in the past (e.g. cdwow.co.uk) being burnt at the stake for using loopholes for un-fair competition within the UK - in the UK retailers eyes at least.
CDWow were taken to court by the UK version of the RIAA for selling product in the UK (and the EU in general) that had not been sourced in the EU. So, for example, EMI UK was spending lots of cash on advertising but EMI Hong Kong were getting the sales!

CDWow no source all the CDs they sell to the EU in the EU to get around this. The still ship from Hong Kong (not Guernsey where, as far as I am aware, they have never shipped from) so the CD is bought in the EU and shipped (bulk) to Hong Kong and then shipped back (singely) to the UK.

Tesco and others operate out of the Channel Islands taking advantage of this loophole. Bricks and Morter stores in the UK are trying to stop them but it's all legal...
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Old Jan 17, 2006, 08:08 AM   #18
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I got all excited about Amazon Jersey but discovered on reading the conditions that they deliver only to the UK, not the Republic of Ireland.
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Old Jan 17, 2006, 08:28 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nermal
I see that Amazon now delivers products from Jersey if they're less than £18, in order to avoid tax. Is this the same loophole?
It certainly is and www.play.com is here too. Play.com is not exploiting the loophole in quite the same way however as they were started by some local guys out of a bedroom a few years ago and now operate out of one of the biggest warehouses on the island.

The operation is quite amazing to watch, they load huge carrousels, about 5m wide by 1.5m deep and 15m high, up with DVD's on the 1st floor then an operator stands next to a lazer printer at a counter on the ground floor. They hit a start button and the lazer printer spits out an invoice/delivery note/address label. The carrousel moves to bring the ordered item’s bin to counter level and an LED on the counter lights up in front of the correct bin. The operator needs to just follow the lights and hit next to spit another invoice and spin the carrousel again. All the orders are stacked so that the carrousel moves as little as possible to save time.

The operation is 24hr and churns out unbelievable amounts of business. For example when the Lord of the Rings first DVD was released pre-orders alone meant they had 12 container loads of DVD ready for shipping the day of release (actually the day before for delivery on the day of release)

EDIT: And as far as Apple moving iTMS to the islands I doubt it very much as I think the loophole is for postal items and I'm pretty sure the rumour was started by a local journolist who doesn't understand why Apple stopped shipping to the Channel Island from their online store and is just plain guessing, last week he was suggesting they were opening an Apple Store when what Apple had said was they were considering adding a CI store alongside the UK and Eire online pages.

Last edited by mpw; Jan 17, 2006 at 08:34 AM.
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Old Jan 17, 2006, 10:10 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharewaredemon
Gas in Canada this summer was 1.30$ a Litre, (possibly even more!)
for a period of time during the Katrina disaster.
Sheesh, that's low That's like 50p!
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Old Jan 17, 2006, 10:23 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Bakey
To digress a little, it wasn't that long ago [a matter of weeks] that some forecourts were selling diesel [my unfortunate fuel of choice] for nigh on 1.00/litre!!!!

I just wish hydrogen cars would hurry up and make it to mainstream....
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Old Jan 17, 2006, 11:53 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by 24C
VAT in the UK is 17.5%, but in Europe it can be higher , AFAIR it's 22.5% in Denmark? Slightly disturbing though, I bought something online, and I'm sure it was from Apple? (but struggling to remember, possibly dotmac account?) and they rounded the VAT up to a "unified across Europe" 20%.
Although VAT is a horrible catch all tax, petrol prices in the UK have a far bigger tax applied than VAT. In the UK we are close on 90p/litre unleaded...in Gibraltar the other month it was 47p unleaded, and diesel was even cheaper. The UK government is creaming it and us
Don't forget the customs and excise tax on cigarettes and alcohol! ( and I don't smoke, drink or live in the UK although you could ask Applespider what she thinks of some of that)
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Old Jan 17, 2006, 02:21 PM   #23
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It certainly is and www.play.com is here too.
And my girlfriend orders all her DVDs from Tesco Jersey. She works for the Inland Revenue so she should know better...
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Old Jan 17, 2006, 02:56 PM   #24
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I live in Guernsey, but Apple are currently screwing us over. We can no longer order anything off the Apple Store. It totally sucks. We have no decent resellers over here so I have to get things shipped from resellers in the UK - which costs loads and I don't get student discount.
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