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Old Jan 17, 2006, 01:37 PM   #1
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Fake iPod Shuffles flood China




Category: News and Press Releases
Link: Fake iPod Shuffles flood China
Description:: Hot sales of the iPod has sparked vendors to manufacture iPod-like MP3 players with fake iPod Shuffle appearing in China, according to local makers of MP3 players

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Old Jan 17, 2006, 01:39 PM   #2
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Apple can combat the problem by flooding China with their own brand of cheap shuffles. That's the only way to win against the pirates, by becoming a pirate of your own merchandise. I know some of the prestigious fashion brands do the same.
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Old Jan 17, 2006, 01:48 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Militar
Apple can combat the problem by flooding China with their own brand of cheap shuffles. That's the only way to win against the pirates, by becoming a pirate of your own merchandise. I know some of the prestigious fashion brands do the same.

Apple can combat the problem by not having their computers or iPod manufactured by slave labor camps in China -- who undoubtedly have reverse-manufactured the shuffle for counterfeiting purpose. The Chinese government encourages anything that undercuts Western economic hedgemony or cutting edge innovation -- they will not enforce piracy or intellectual property or counterfeiting laws. Why should they? Private property rights are still not even on the table there for their own "citizens"!

It is a complete snow job for any Western company to salivate over China's huge population -- as if their government would allow the West to tap into those billions of potential consumers freely and without their control . It ain't free nor is it a "free" market in China. Western businessmen who fail to differentiate between our concept of free economy and theirs are in for a huge surprise -- and blinded by their own greed. The Chinese still believe they are in a "war" with the free West and are hitting us with economic warfare. Wish Steve Jobs would wise up and pull out of the totatitarian state that is China.
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Last edited by California; Jan 17, 2006 at 02:13 PM.
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Old Jan 17, 2006, 03:14 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by California
Apple can combat the problem by not having their computers or iPod manufactured by slave labor camps in China -- who undoubtedly have reverse-manufactured the shuffle for counterfeiting purpose.
Although this might be true, having manufactured the Shuffle in the U.S for example wouldn't have stopped them from reverse-engineering the final product.
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Old Jan 17, 2006, 03:31 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Veldek
Although this might be true, having manufactured the Shuffle in the U.S for example wouldn't have stopped them from reverse-engineering the final product.
it certianly makes it easier for them.
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Old Jan 17, 2006, 03:34 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Veldek
Although this might be true, having manufactured the Shuffle in the U.S for example wouldn't have stopped them from reverse-engineering the final product.
Well said ... and if you notice that article also says that they are doing the same to other Chinese & Asian manufacturers of MP3 players.

The best way to stop these pirates from making money is to stop them at the docks in this country and swiftly prosecute anyone who sellls these knockoffs. There was a guy on Craig's List that was selling them last week ... he was busted within hours of the listing.
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Old Jan 17, 2006, 03:39 PM   #7
Militar
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Originally Posted by California
Apple can combat the problem by not having their computers or iPod manufactured by slave labor camps in China...
iPod shuffle — $249
MacBook Pro — $4,999
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Old Jan 17, 2006, 03:55 PM   #8
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Whooo! This thread got itself in trouble quickly!

There isn't much that Apple can do other than - as Militar pointed out - beat the pirates at their own game, or cede that part of the market to them and rely on better design and end-to-end integration to justify the premium prices over the copies.

The general piracy problem is not confined to China, however. Other countries - notably India - also have thriving piracy industries. Both governments legislate against piracy and both take action against pirates, although I doubt that either is very effective (and who would be in countries with populations exceeding a billion each?).
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Old Jan 17, 2006, 04:02 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by kiwi-in-uk
Whooo! This thread got itself in trouble quickly!

There isn't much that Apple can do other than - as Militar pointed out - beat the pirates at their own game, or cede that part of the market to them and rely on better design and end-to-end integration to justify the premium prices over the copies.

The general piracy problem is not confined to China, however. Other countries - notably India - also have thriving piracy industries. Both governments legislate against piracy and both take action against pirates, although I doubt that either is very effective (and who would be in countries with populations exceeding a billion each?).
Don't forget Bangkok for pirated DVDs (for 3$ NZ) and software
knockoff Callaway golfclubs for about 20% of the original price, Tiger Woods Nike T Shirts for about $2 and the list goes on
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Old Jan 17, 2006, 04:03 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi-in-uk
Whooo! This thread got itself in trouble quickly!

There isn't much that Apple can do other than - as Militar pointed out - beat the pirates at their own game, or cede that part of the market to them and rely on better design and end-to-end integration to justify the premium prices over the copies.

The general piracy problem is not confined to China, however. Other countries - notably India - also have thriving piracy industries. Both governments legislate against piracy and both take action against pirates, although I doubt that either is very effective (and who would be in countries with populations exceeding a billion each?).
Yes I agree. But we allowed China into the WTO and other legit organizations with the caveat that they would more aggressively combat piracy, in the way that they combat freedom of speech by shutting down internet sites and jailing bloggers. My point is that it is not in China's best interest, or so China believes, to help its Western competitors combat Chinese piracy. Any errosion of Western industry is a plus for their side.

So, the Chinese storm troopers have time and energy and impetus to crack down on free speech as they jail internet bloggers. But, they can't seem to find the time to crack down on the millions of movie counterfeiters or, now, the iPod pirates?

It's a priority problem of a still totalitarian state. To excuse India or China of not cracking down on counterfeiting because they have billions of "citizens" is ludicrous. They know how to crack down when they want to. My point is -- they don't want to.

And we in the West don't get it. All we see is their billions of "potential consumers". We forget Tiannamen Square and labor camps and the bloodshed of the "Cultural Revolution" and the 80 million people murdered by Mao and company since 1949 simply for not towing the commie party line.
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Old Jan 17, 2006, 04:07 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by virus1
it certianly makes it easier for them.
Easier by an insignificant amount. Counterfeiting products is a huge business in China. I saw a "60 Minutes" segment on knock-off products in China and one of the companies "60 Minutes" followed was Callaway (the golf club company). With in a week of newly designed clubs hitting stores knock offs from China started to appear. Using state of the art tech the knock-offs were so similar that w/o cutting open the head of the club it was nearly impossible to tell the original from the fake.

These aren't just guys using mostly off the shelf components to make bootleg DVDs. These are modern manufacturing facilities being used to kick out high quality, counterfeit products.


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Old Jan 17, 2006, 05:26 PM   #12
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I know epiphone guitars (manufactured in china) had a press release put out with one of their guitars cut open to show the insides when some one started circulating pictures of a knockoff that had fallen apart on them.
Basically the knock off had cardboard pressed into layers, the real thing is solid wood.
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Old Jan 17, 2006, 05:29 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LethalWolfe
Easier by an insignificant amount. Counterfeiting products is a huge business in China. I saw a "60 Minutes" segment on knock-off products in China and one of the companies "60 Minutes" followed was Callaway (the golf club company). With in a week of newly designed clubs hitting stores knock offs from China started to appear. Using state of the art tech the knock-offs were so similar that w/o cutting open the head of the club it was nearly impossible to tell the original from the fake.

These aren't just guys using mostly off the shelf components to make bootleg DVDs. These are modern manufacturing facilities being used to kick out high quality, counterfeit products.


Lethal
And China does nothing, face it we have been sold out by our Govt to the Chineese and in the end they will own us, or they do allready.
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Old Jan 17, 2006, 05:58 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LethalWolfe
Easier by an insignificant amount. Counterfeiting products is a huge business in China. I saw a "60 Minutes" segment on knock-off products in China and one of the companies "60 Minutes" followed was Callaway (the golf club company). With in a week of newly designed clubs hitting stores knock offs from China started to appear. Using state of the art tech the knock-offs were so similar that w/o cutting open the head of the club it was nearly impossible to tell the original from the fake.

These aren't just guys using mostly off the shelf components to make bootleg DVDs. These are modern manufacturing facilities being used to kick out high quality, counterfeit products.


Lethal
I saw that item some time ago.
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Old Jan 17, 2006, 08:54 PM   #15
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Apple should hire a private army, and then raid the people who make them. Besides the potential fire-fights with all major armies in the world, it seems like a good idea.

In case you didn't get it, that was a joke. The best thing i think apple can do is…um…not sure.
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Old Jan 17, 2006, 09:11 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by yankeefan24
Apple should hire a private army, and then raid the people who make them. Besides the potential fire-fights with all major armies in the world, it seems like a good idea.

In case you didn't get it, that was a joke. The best thing i think apple can do is…um…not sure.
My thoughts exactly. Outside of an army...? But Jobs could swear off cheap slave labor camps in China to build our iBooks and iPods; taking the moral high ground is always the best deal in the long run.
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Old Jan 18, 2006, 02:40 AM   #17
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ever been to a slave labour camp?

I've actually been to quite a few factories in China, and I would call them anything but slave labour camps. When my boss told me I was to go to China and source chair components I was VERY nervous about the conditions. After years reading No Logo and Noam Chomsky etc. I thought I would be horrified.

However, the reality was, most of the factories I went to were the same if not better than the ones I've been to in Australia. Obviously, I don't know anything about the wages. However, conditions were good in these factories.

When I spoke to some of the managers of these factories, they were desperate to keep workers, as competition for skilled labour is so high.

Now, on reflection, we were going to buy only "QUALITY" products, and not cheap "WAL-MART" crap, so the factories had to be good. I would imagine that the factories that Appple use, have high quality standards, and that they wouldn't be using "slave labour" they would be using skilled labour.

Now, I'm not saying that I know about the factories Apple use, and I'm not saying that all factories in China are good, but I am saying that generalisations are dangerous.

After going to China and seeing for myself, my viewpoint has changed.

-Red 2.
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Old Jan 18, 2006, 02:57 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by wedge antilies
I've actually been to quite a few factories in China, and I would call them anything but slave labour camps. When my boss told me I was to go to China and source chair components I was VERY nervous about the conditions. After years reading No Logo and Noam Chomsky etc. I thought I would be horrified.

However, the reality was, most of the factories I went to were the same if not better than the ones I've been to in Australia. Obviously, I don't know anything about the wages. However, conditions were good in these factories.

When I spoke to some of the managers of these factories, they were desperate to keep workers, as competition for skilled labour is so high.

Now, on reflection, we were going to buy only "QUALITY" products, and not cheap "WAL-MART" crap, so the factories had to be good. I would imagine that the factories that Appple use, have high quality standards, and that they wouldn't be using "slave labour" they would be using skilled labour.

Now, I'm not saying that I know about the factories Apple use, and I'm not saying that all factories in China are good, but I am saying that generalisations are dangerous.

After going to China and seeing for myself, my viewpoint has changed.

-Red 2.
That's fascinating. My only idea would be that a Western's pov is slanted by our private property rights, not to mention free speech, rights denied worker peasant classes, I'm sure, in China. I read in the NYT I think that these factories have dorm apartments on site, sort of forming communal living at each factory "family". No privacy, no real home to go to, no eight hour workday but more like 12 or 14 hours on the job. But that could be agiprop; don't know. Still, thanks for that insight.
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Old Jan 18, 2006, 10:51 AM   #19
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Anyone have pictures of these knockoffs? The shuffle does not IMO look like it would be difficult to copy. I'd like to see the quality of the imitations.
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Old Jan 18, 2006, 10:55 AM   #20
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I really don't like armchair protesters. The lot really are no better than those wacky Earth Liberation Front members who burn down houses trying to get their point across, but they come out looking even more ignorant. I will add this to my list of pet peeves.
Here's to the Crazy Ones
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