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Old Jun 9, 2014, 08:58 AM   #1
yg17
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Good guys with guns fail to stop bad guys with guns

Tragic.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/la...re-kill-police

Quote:
Two Las Vegas police officers were killed Sunday in what appears to be a politically motivated ambush in a pizza restaurant that spilled over to a nearby Wal-Mart, where the two shooters committed suicide after killing a woman in the store.
Details are sketchy, but Metropolitan Police Department sources close to the investigation say the shooters shouted that “this is the start of a revolution” before opening fire on the officers, and draped their bodies with cloth showing a Revolutionary War-era flag. Investigators have also found paraphernalia associated with white supremacists.
Sunday night, Metro homicide investigators and FBI agents cordoned off and were searching a small apartment complex at 110 S. Bruce St., about four miles from the shooting scene. A resident of the complex said he had spoken with a man who lived in the apartment being searched. He said the man appeared “militant,” and often talked about conspiracy theories.
An explosion was heard at the apartment complex at about 9:30 p.m., but no information was immediately available Sunday night.
Sheriff Doug Gillespie said officers Alyn Beck, 41, and Igor Soldo, 31, were shot while they ate lunch at CiCi’s Pizza, 309 N. Nellis Blvd., at about 11:20 a.m. Sunday. In a late afternoon news conference he said no motive for the attack has been determined.
“It’s a tragic day,” the sheriff said. “We have lost two officers with young families.”
Beck was a senior patrol officer who had taught Advanced Officer Skills Training and at the Metro academy. He was hired by Metro in 2001 and had a wife and three children.
Soldo has been a Metro officer since 2006 and had a wife and baby. Both were uniform patrol officers assigned to the Northeast Area Command.
THE ATTACK
A law enforcement official who has been briefed on the incident said an officer — unconfirmed reports indicate it was Soldo — was refilling a soft drink when the female shooter approached him from behind and shot him in the head, killing him instantly.
The woman then shot the other officer several times as he drew his pistol. Gillespie said the officer was able to return fire but it was unclear if he hit anyone.
One officer was reported dead at the scene, while the other died later in surgery at University Medical Center.
Witnesses told police one of the shooters yelled “This is the start of a revolution” before shooting the officers. Gillespie later said he could not confirm that.
The shooters then stripped the officers of their weapons and ammunition and badges, according to a law enforcement official with knowledge of the investigation. They then covered the officers with something that featured the Gadsden flag, a yellow banner with a coiled snake above the words, “Don’t tread on Me.”
The flag is named for Christopher Gadsden a Revolutionary War general who designed it. It has recently come back in vogue as an adopted symbol of the American tea party movement.
And the bad guys with guns seem to be associated with the tea party. I'm shocked!
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 09:08 AM   #2
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All the internet & phone surveillance by the US government and yet the risk from these two was not picked up? We have to get used to the idea that terrorism is unavoidable and stop messing about with curtailing our freedoms to prevent the inevitable. Time to overturn the 'Patriot' Act's worst excesses in regard to government snooping...
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 09:11 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by yg17 View Post
Tragic.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/la...re-kill-police



And the bad guys with guns seem to be associated with the tea party. I'm shocked!
I've seen that flag around for years, long before the tea party.
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 09:12 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by VulchR View Post
All the internet & phone surveillance by the US government and yet the risk from these two was not picked up? We have to get used to the idea that terrorism is unavoidable and stop messing about with curtailing our freedoms to prevent the inevitable. Time to overturn the 'Patriot' Act's worst excesses in regard to government snooping...
Nice way to try to change the subject to something that everyone is equally annoyed at in order to avoid discussing the fact that good guys with guns were not able to stop bad guys with guns.
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 09:29 AM   #5
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I've seen that flag around for years, long before the tea party.
Swastikas had been around for years, long before the nazi party, but if I was walking around with a swastika on my shirt, wouldn't you assume that I'm a neo-nazi?

The Tea Party has adopted the don't tread on me flag as a symbol of their party, so I think it's pretty safe to assume that someone waving that flag around is a supporter of the tea party.
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 11:21 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by bowens View Post
I've seen that flag around for years, long before the tea party.
You'd be surprised how many people fail at basic American history but claim to be enlightened and intellectual...

And it's pretty obvious since the cops were armed and it made no difference that all police officers don't need guns. Pepper spray would be better.
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 11:23 AM   #7
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You'd be surprised how many people fail at basic American history but claim to be enlightened and intellectual...


They didn't claim the Tea Party invented the flag.
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 11:34 AM   #8
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The United States Navy Flag from 1770. On my 5th Great-Grandfathers Navy Sailing vessel.

just saying'.

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Old Jun 9, 2014, 11:37 AM   #9
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The United States Navy Flag from 1770. On my 5th Great-Grandfathers Navy Sailing vessel.

just saying'.

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Must be in the tea party...according to some...
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 11:40 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Peace View Post
The United States Navy Flag from 1770. On my 5th Great-Grandfathers Navy Sailing vessel.

just saying'.

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does he know he is a tea party member by default?
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 11:41 AM   #11
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Must be in the tea party...
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Originally Posted by jkcerda View Post
does he know he is a tea party member by default?
It's suggested that the Tea Party is adopting a historic symbol.

There's no need to twist it into something that it's not.
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 11:44 AM   #12
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It's suggested that the Tea Party is adopting a historic symbol.

There's no need to twist it into something that it's not.
That's exactly what it is. An old historic symbol from the pre-revolution period.

The "Tea Party" Stole it from the Government.

Irony !!

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Old Jun 9, 2014, 11:44 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by citizenzen View Post
It's suggested that the Tea Party is adopting a historic symbol.

There's no need to twist it into something that it's not.
like it was done below?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yg17 View Post
Swastikas had been around for years, long before the nazi party, but if I was walking around with a swastika on my shirt, wouldn't you assume that I'm a neo-nazi?

The Tea Party has adopted the don't tread on me flag as a symbol of their party, so I think it's pretty safe to assume that someone waving that flag around is a supporter of the tea party.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yg17 View Post
Tragic.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/la...re-kill-police



And the bad guys with guns seem to be associated with the tea party. I'm shocked!
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 11:46 AM   #14
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like it was done below?
I just waved it in your face dude. I do NOT like the Tea Party.

I DO like my Navy heritage.
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 11:47 AM   #15
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The United States Navy Flag from 1770. On my 5th Great-Grandfathers Navy Sailing vessel. ...
Your 1770 date is highly suspect. What's the source for this date?
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 11:51 AM   #16
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Your 1770 date is highly suspect. What's the source for this date?
Ok. I was off a few years .

1775.

The traditional Jack.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Navy_Jack

"In 1778, John Adams and Benjamin Franklin wrote a letter to the Ambassador of the Kingdom of Sicily, thanking him for allowing entry of American ships into Sicilian ports. The letter describes the American flag according to the 1777 Flag Resolution, but also describes a flag of "South Carolina, a rattlesnake, in the middle of the thirteen stripes."[2]"
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 11:52 AM   #17
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I just waved it in your face dude. I do NOT like the Tea Party.

I DO like my Navy heritage.
TEA party got hijacked, sadly by the GOP
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 12:14 PM   #18
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 12:15 PM   #19
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TEA party hijacked the GOP
Fixed that for ya.

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Old Jun 9, 2014, 12:16 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Peace View Post
Ok. I was off a few years .

1775.

The traditional Jack.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Navy_Jack

"In 1778, John Adams and Benjamin Franklin wrote a letter to the Ambassador of the Kingdom of Sicily, thanking him for allowing entry of American ships into Sicilian ports. The letter describes the American flag according to the 1777 Flag Resolution, but also describes a flag of "South Carolina, a rattlesnake, in the middle of the thirteen stripes."[2]"
Most sources say something to the effect that the "historically probable" first naval jack didn't have the snake. ("There is little evidence this jack had the rattlesnake or motto as traditionally depicted").

In other words, the navy jack that saw first use during the Revolution probably looked like this:

Thumb resize.

From: First Naval Jack: History
However, the jack has traditionally been depicted as consisting of thirteen red and white stripes charged with an uncoiled rattlesnake and the motto "Dont [sic] Tread on Me"; this tradition dates at least back to 1880, when this design appeared in a color plate in Admiral George Henry Preble's influential History of the Flag of the United States. Recent scholarship, however, has demonstrated that this inferred design never actually existed but "was a 19th-century mistake based on an erroneous 1776 engraving".
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 12:19 PM   #21
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Most sources say something to the effect that the "historically probable" first naval jack didn't have the snake. ("There is little evidence this jack had the rattlesnake or motto as traditionally depicted").

In other words, the navy jack that saw first use during the Revolution probably looked like this:

Thumb resize.

From: First Naval Jack: History
However, the jack has traditionally been depicted as consisting of thirteen red and white stripes charged with an uncoiled rattlesnake and the motto "Dont [sic] Tread on Me"; this tradition dates at least back to 1880, when this design appeared in a color plate in Admiral George Henry Preble's influential History of the Flag of the United States. Recent scholarship, however, has demonstrated that this inferred design never actually existed but "was a 19th-century mistake based on an erroneous 1776 engraving".
Read the whole story bro. From that same article :

"In 1778, John Adams and Benjamin Franklin wrote a letter to the Ambassador of the Kingdom of Sicily, thanking him for allowing entry of American ships into Sicilian ports. The letter describes the American flag according to the 1777 Flag Resolution, but also describes a flag of "South Carolina, a rattlesnake, in the middle of the thirteen stripes."[2]"


That flag was actually S. Carolina
It was flown alongside the Union Jack around the time the U.S. created the Navy.

My 5th Great-Grandfather was a Captain on the ship. Undoubtably the Navy enlisted private ships to start the Navy.

BTW. My ancestor went down with that ship when it was sunk.

You're Welcome.

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Old Jun 9, 2014, 12:29 PM   #22
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Nice way to try to change the subject to something that everyone is equally annoyed at in order to avoid discussing the fact that good guys with guns were not able to stop bad guys with guns.
I was entertained by the comment. What should we discuss in particular? Too many people with guns, or cops not vigilantly scanning their horizon for danger at all times?
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 12:37 PM   #23
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How about this flag? Is this one still acceptable...or Tea Party too.

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Old Jun 9, 2014, 12:51 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Peace View Post
Fixed that for ya.

Them are fighting words there mister

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Originally Posted by Huntn View Post
I was entertained by the comment. What should we discuss in particular? Too many people with guns, or cops not vigilantly scanning their horizon for danger at all times?
how about guns giving cops a false sense of security? same would apply to a person with a CCW.
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 12:55 PM   #25
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how about guns giving cops a false sense of security? same would apply to a person with a CCW.
Cops get oodles of training that CCW carriers never do.
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