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Old Jun 9, 2014, 01:37 PM   #1
jkcerda
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Miss Nevada Nia Sanchez

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BATON ROUGE, La. Newly crowned Miss USA Nia Sanchez is a fourth-degree black belt in taekwondo and says women should be able to defend themselves as a way to battle the problem of campus rape.

Sanchez beat out 50 other contestants from all the states and the District of Columbia on Sunday night for the title of 63rd Miss USA. First runner-up was Miss North Dakota Audra Mari. Sanchez will go on to represent the U.S. at the Miss Universe competition later this year.

In a vibrant red floor-length fishtail gown, Miss Nevada answered judge Rumer Willis' question about the high rate of sexual assaults on college campuses. Willis, the 25-year-old daughter of actors Bruce Willis and Demi Moore, said 19 percent of U.S. undergraduate women are victims of sexual assault and asked Sanchez why she thinks the issue is being swept under the rug and what should be done about it.


seems some are not happy about the suggestion
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepa...fense-n1849213
http://thelibertarianrepublic.com/mi...#ixzz349VTlZLw
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 01:53 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by jkcerda View Post
I see both sides of the situation. Hear me out first.

I agree with Ms. Sanchez. Self defense at that point is a great thing to know and knowing when to use it, even better.

But on the other side of that coin, it is a band-aid, to where you are treating the symptom and not the cause. For that, I agree with the other side. Men need to be educated (sometimes repeatedly) that what they are doing is wrong. Stop it at the cause (the men thinking it's okay/thinking with their head and not with their head), and the problem will go away.

In short, both a defense on the part of women, and education on the part of men is the true answer, with reinforcement to back it up.

BL.
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 01:53 PM   #3
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How about a combination of changing attitudes and self defense for the resistant men?
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 02:02 PM   #4
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How about a combination of changing attitudes and self defense for the resistant men?
Changing attitudes?

Like anyone thrusting into a crying, screaming, fighting person doesn't know it's wrong?

Rape is one of the most heinous crimes, and it takes a mentally deranged person to do it.

No, teach your daughters to fight and stab sexual attackers in the throat and use any means necessary to escape the attack.
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 02:05 PM   #5
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Changing attitudes?

Like anyone thrusting into a crying, screaming, fighting person doesn't know it's wrong?

Rape is one of the most heinous crimes, and it takes a mentally deranged person to do it.

No, teach your daughters to fight and stab sexual attackers in the throat and use any means necessary to escape the attack.
The complaint by feminists was that self defense suggestion puts the onus on woman instead of overall society. SING- solar plexus, instep, nose, groin! Thanks Miss Congeniality.
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 02:11 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by jkcerda View Post
seems some are not happy about the suggestion
I agree with some of the criticism in that not everybody can or certainly should have to learn self-defense.

On the other hand, I agree with Ms Nevada that it is a great idea if they do. In fact, I think as many people as possible should learn hand-to-hand, unarmed self-defense techniques. Like police officers. Especially police officers. Along with their training in how to handle people suffering from mental illness.

I think it is (actually) shameful that most police officers learn how to shoot, but, don't learn non-lethal alternatives to shooting if they are being attacked. My own anecdotal knowledge is that martial arts training is much more likely to be useful day-to-day, and, used defensively.


If the people who spend hours per week practicing shooting would spend the same amount of time studying judo, jiu-jitsu, aikido, etc., the world would be a better and safer place. (Unsourced assertion.)
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 02:17 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post
Changing attitudes?

Like anyone thrusting into a crying, screaming, fighting person doesn't know it's wrong?

Rape is one of the most heinous crimes, and it takes a mentally deranged person to do it.

No, teach your daughters to fight and stab sexual attackers in the throat and use any means necessary to escape the attack.
Again, this treats the symptom, and not the cause. You treat the cause by educating and showing men that it is wrong to rape; educate them on this early, often, and before any such act even passes as a thought in their mind. That is how you fix the problem.


You don't just clip weeds with shears or loppers, as the weed will just grow back. You defeat it at the source; the root. Same applies here: self defense would be the shears/loppers; education would be the weed killer.

BL.
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 02:23 PM   #8
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Like anyone thrusting into a crying, screaming, fighting person doesn't know it's wrong?

Rape is one of the most heinous crimes, and it takes a mentally deranged person to do it.
Rape is quite prevalent in a lot of countries. Don't think other cultures follow our norms when it comes to women, they don't.

Just heard a story on NPR this morning about how roughly 50% (!!) of Indian women have no toilet at home and have to go defecate in a field. They must do so before dawn or after dusk (in the dark) so that men can't follow them out there and taunt/stare at them while they do their business, or worse, assault/rape them.

This is a HUGE problem (millions and millions of women have to deal with it), and clearly all those millions of men aren't mentally deranged. Just raised in a culture that doesn't respect women, at all.

Here's the story, very interesting read: http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2...pen-defecation
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 02:24 PM   #9
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I'll tell you what if more women were skilled in the art of self defense, rapes would cut way back. Rapists, the lowest and vilest creatures on this earth, do it because they want to exert power of a woman and take what they desire. If a few more women had the ability to put a real hurting on the attacker, either with martial arts or a large caliber handgun, you'd see those low life reconsider attacking that helpless woman.

A kick the groin is far better than a whistle.
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 02:26 PM   #10
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A kick the groin is far better than a whistle.
Until they recover moments later (or the woman misses the mark) and beats her senseless/to death.
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 02:27 PM   #11
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Until they recover moments later (or the woman misses the mark) and beats her senseless/to death.
If she has a black belt, she's going to know how to handle that situation. She's not going to deliver one kick if he is still able to attack. A black belt is going to render the attacker harmless and keep him that way.
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 02:27 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by lannister80 View Post
Until they recover moments later (or the woman misses the mark) and beats her senseless/to death.
that is why everyone should teach their daughters to LEAVE as soon as the perp is incapacitated .
if she misses the mark, she was going to get raped anyways :doh:
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 02:34 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by jkcerda View Post
that is why everyone should teach their daughters to LEAVE as soon as the perp is incapacitated .
Agreed!

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Originally Posted by jkcerda View Post
if she misses the mark, she was going to get raped anyways :doh:
True, but perhaps be treated much worse for the attempt. Just thinking out loud on that one, no stats to back up.

----------

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Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
If she has a black belt, she's going to know how to handle that situation. She's not going to deliver one kick if he is still able to attack. A black belt is going to render the attacker harmless and keep him that way.
Yes, in her case. I doubt most women will peruse a black-belt for rape defense, but some "lesser" self defense training.
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 02:35 PM   #14
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that is why everyone should teach their daughters to LEAVE as soon as the perp is incapacitated .
if she misses the mark, she was going to get raped anyways :doh:
My DD11 has been taking American Kenpo since she was 5-years-old. Not only does it teach self-defense but it helps with discipline, respect and concentration. I can't recommend putting kids in martial arts enough.

Two other major things that martial arts teach is to always be aware of your surroundings. If you are aware, there is less chance of finding yourself in a situation where you need to use your karate. And second, evasion. Know when you can get away and plan which way you will go. These are mindsets that are taught.

A rapist isn't looking for a fight. He's looking for a victim. Karate is like a firearm. You train with it, you carry it but if you are aware, you will most likely never need it.
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 02:46 PM   #15
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My DD11 has been taking American Kenpo since she was 5-years-old. Not only does it teach self-defense but it helps with discipline, respect and concentration. I can't recommend putting kids in martial arts enough.

Two other major things that martial arts teach is to always be aware of your surroundings. If you are aware, there is less chance of finding yourself in a situation where you need to use your karate. And second, evasion. Know when you can get away and plan which way you will go. These are mindsets that are taught.

A rapist isn't looking for a fight. He's looking for a victim. Karate is like a firearm. You train with it, you carry it but if you are aware, you will most likely never need it.
Again, you are treating the symptom. The man already has it in his mind that rape is okay and intends to carry it out. That is the problem. You stop the problem by educating the guy early on in his life that RAPE IS WRONG. Once the guy has that in his mind, he then has to overcome the moral implications of what he is doing, as he fights that war in his head. The women's self-defense at that point is simply a deterrent.

What you're not getting is that you want to destroy the problem, not just take care of the episode. In fact, most rapists will rape again and again and again, until they get caught. No amount of self defense will stop repeat episodes regardless of who is the victim.

the only way to truly stop it is to educate early and early on. Self defense is in case that education doesn't work.

BL.
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 03:04 PM   #16
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Again, you are treating the symptom. The man already has it in his mind that rape is okay and intends to carry it out. That is the problem. You stop the problem by educating the guy early on in his life that RAPE IS WRONG. Once the guy has that in his mind, he then has to overcome the moral implications of what he is doing, as he fights that war in his head. The women's self-defense at that point is simply a deterrent.

What you're not getting is that you want to destroy the problem, not just take care of the episode. In fact, most rapists will rape again and again and again, until they get caught. No amount of self defense will stop repeat episodes regardless of who is the victim.

the only way to truly stop it is to educate early and early on. Self defense is in case that education doesn't work.

BL.
you have things backwards, self defense FIRST, that is the one thing women can actually have control of. you are somewhat assuming that rapist have not been "educated" about what they are doing.
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 03:09 PM   #17
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you have things backwards, self defense FIRST, that is the one thing women can actually have control of. you are somewhat assuming that rapist have not been "educated" about what they are doing.
They better have been educated; it was something instilled into me in school since 9th grade, let alone my parents.

BL.
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 03:14 PM   #18
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They better have been educated; it was something instilled into me in school since 9th grade, let alone my parents.

BL.
just because they are "educated" does NOT mean they will not become rapist.
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 03:24 PM   #19
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15% of rape victims are under 12. 44% are 17 and under.

You training these children in martial arts is going to protect them?


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[Intro: Pharrell & Robin Thicke]
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If you can't hear what I'm trying to say
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Maybe I'm going deaf
Maybe I'm going blind
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[Bridge: Robin Thicke]
Ok, now he was close
Tried to domesticate you
But you're an animal
Baby, it's in your nature
Just let me liberate you
You don't need no papers
That man is not your maker
And that's why I'm gon' take a

[Hook: Robin Thicke]
Good girl
I know you want it
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Can't let it get past me
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Talk about getting blasted
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I know you want it
I know you want it
But you're a good girl
The way you grab me
Must wanna get nasty
Go ahead, get at me

[Verse 2: Robin Thicke]
What do they make dreams for
When you got them jeans on
What do we need steam for
You the hottest bitch in this place
I feel so lucky, you wanna hug me
What rhymes with hug me?
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[Bridge]

[Hook]

[Verse 3: T.I.]
Hustle Gang Homie
One thing I ask of you
Lemme be the one you back that ass up to
From Malibu to Paris boo
Had a bitch, but she ain't bad as you
So, hit me up when you pass through
I'll give you something big enough to tear your ass in two
Swag on 'em even when you dress casual
I mean, it's almost unbearable
In a hundred years not dare would I
Pull a Pharcyde, let you pass me by
Nothin' like your last guy, he too square for you
He don't smack that ass and pull your hair like that
So I'm just watching and waitin'
For you to salute the true big pimpin'
Not many women can refuse this pimping
I'm a nice guy, but don't get confused, this pimpin'

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[Hook: Robin Thicke]

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Everybody get up
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Hey, Hey, Hey

[Outro: Pharrell & Robin Thicke]
Everybody get up, WOO!
Hey, hey, hey
Hey, hey, hey
Hey, hey, hey
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 03:29 PM   #20
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just because they are "educated" does NOT mean they will not become rapist.
Never said they wouldn't. But I also said that it wasn't the only solution as well. As I stated earlier, I said that both should be used. But we should not only depend on one solution (self defense). If we want to resolve this, we need to teach women how to defend themselves against a rapist, plus educate men on why rape is wrong, and how to stand up for a women if any of their supposed 'guy friends' even thinks about it.

We handle the issue from both sides, and together, we make the issue go away.

BL.
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 03:29 PM   #21
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15% of rape victims are under 12. 44% are 17 and under.

You training these children in martial arts is going to protect them?
everything helps, pepper spray & a knife/weapon are only good if they have instant access to it or if they manage to pull it out & use it.
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 03:30 PM   #22
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15% of rape victims are under 12. 44% are 17 and under.

You training these children in martial arts is going to protect them?
Let's put it this way, training them in martial arts isn't going to hurt them. The biggest thing that the martial arts teaches a kid is to be aware of your situation and to look for ways out. If backed into a no-out situation, then and only then do you use your martial arts to protect yourself. Karate isn't the answer for everything but it certainly is a step in the right direction versus being a helpless victim blowing a whistle.
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 03:35 PM   #23
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Let's put it this way, training them in martial arts isn't going to hurt them. The biggest thing that the martial arts teaches a kid is to be aware of your situation and to look for ways out. If backed into a no-out situation, then and only then do you use your martial arts to protect yourself. Karate isn't the answer for everything but it certainly is a step in the right direction versus being a helpless victim blowing a whistle.
I agree it may be better to know than not to know. But you're talking about something that at best is going to have a tiny effect in reducing rapes. Hammering home that yes means yes (and no means no) seems like it would be more productive. As would reducing stigma (first question should not be "what was she wearing?" i.e., she probably deserved it) and increasing prosecution.
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 03:36 PM   #24
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Let's put it this way, training them in martial arts isn't going to hurt them. The biggest thing that the martial arts teaches a kid is to be aware of your situation and to look for ways out. If backed into a no-out situation, then and only then do you use your martial arts to protect yourself. Karate isn't the answer for everything but it certainly is a step in the right direction versus being a helpless victim blowing a whistle.
Agreed 100%. But for most effect, put it in Miyagi-speak:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat Morita
Rule #1: Karate only to be used for self-defense.

Rule #2: First learn Rule #1.
BL.
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Old Jun 9, 2014, 03:42 PM   #25
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Changing attitudes?

Like anyone thrusting into a crying, screaming, fighting person doesn't know it's wrong?


The change in attitude needs to occur well before that point.

But thanks for adding an extra dash of ugliness to the thread.
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