Go Back   MacRumors Forums > Mac Community > Community Discussion > Politics, Religion, Social Issues

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Jun 11, 2014, 04:13 PM   #1
MacRumors
macrumors bot
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Apple Targeted by EU Probe into Irish Tax Policies as U.S. Considers Tax Holiday for Cash Repatriation




The European Commission today launched a formal investigation into Apple's tax arrangements in Ireland, seeking to determine whether the company's tax deals in the country are considered illegal state aid. The Commission is also investigating Starbucks and Fiat Finance & Trade SA.
Quote:
"Special secret deals should be outlawed across the EU," Chas Roy-Chowdhury, head of taxation at the Association of Chartered Certified Accountants, said in an e-mailed statement. "All tax breaks and reliefs should be openly available for qualifying businesses."
Apple's tax policies have been under scrutiny in recent years, as it utilizes multiple subsidiary companies headquartered in the Irish city of Cork to move money around the world without significant tax penalties because companies managed and controlled abroad but located in Ireland are not subject to taxes. Last year, Apple's arrangements earned it a tax rate of 3.7 percent on non-U.S. income.

Apple has maintained that its tax policies are entirely legal, a position it echoed today in a statement to Bloomberg. An SEC investigation also found Apple's tax policies to be legal.
Quote:
"Apple pays every euro of every tax that we owe," the company said in an e-mailed statement. "We have received no selective treatment from Irish officials. Apple is subject to the same tax laws as scores of other international companies doing business in Ireland."
As the European Commission begins its investigation, the U.S. Senate is considering a one-time tax break to repatriate cash held overseas. Back in 2013, Apple CEO Tim Cook defended Apple's tax practices and responded to accusations of "extensive tax-avoidance strategies" with a call for tax reform, asking for simplified corporate tax policies and lower rates for repatriation.

Apple holds more than $100 billion in cash overseas and at current tax rates, it would have to pay a 35 percent corporate income tax to bring the money back to the United States, "a very high number," as Cook has said.

If a tax holiday is granted, the rate could be much lower. A repatriation holiday in 2004 allowed companies to bring cash to the U.S. at a rate of 5.25 percent, which could cut Apple's tax bill down significantly if it brought money back from overseas.

Note: Due to the political nature of the discussion regarding this topic, the discussion thread is located in our Politics, Religion, Social Issues forum. All forum members and site visitors are welcome to read and follow the thread, but posting is limited to forum members with at least 100 posts.

Article Link: Apple Targeted by EU Probe into Irish Tax Policies as U.S. Considers Tax Holiday for Cash Repatriation
MacRumors is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 11, 2014, 04:15 PM   #2
iLoveiTunes
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
woah... is that true ? " as U.S. Considers Tax Holiday for Cash Repatriation"
iLoveiTunes is online now   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 11, 2014, 04:17 PM   #3
AngerDanger
macrumors 65816
 
AngerDanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: doing the Dada Polka
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLoveiTunes View Post
woah... is that true ? " as U.S. Considers Tax Holiday for Cash Repatriation"
I don't know; perhaps somebody should write an article about it.
AngerDanger is offline   5 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 11, 2014, 04:17 PM   #4
Nunyabinez
macrumors 6502a
 
Nunyabinez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Provo, UT
A "tax holiday" simply means a reduction in the amount of tax. Getting a smaller chunk of a huge amount is better than getting nothing at all.
__________________
27" iMac, 3.4 GHz i7; 15" MBP, 2.53 GHz Core 2 Duo; 13" MBA 1.7 GHz i5; iPad (3rd Gen); iPad Mini; iPhone 6+; Hackintosh, 3.4 GHz i7 (2600k)
Nunyabinez is offline   9 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 11, 2014, 04:18 PM   #5
MellowFuzz
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLoveiTunes View Post
woah... is that true ? " as U.S. Considers Tax Holiday for Cash Repatriation"
One of the few things the federal government might get right. Money does go where it's welcome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlochF3gAns
MellowFuzz is offline   4 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 11, 2014, 04:22 PM   #6
irnchriz
macrumors 6502a
 
irnchriz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Scotland
Legal and 'moral' are two entirely different things. This fact plus these governments are pissed off that they don't get their cut of these billions regardless of the fact that said governments won't spend any of it on the general populace anyway.
__________________
irnchriz is offline   4 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 11, 2014, 04:28 PM   #7
Eraserhead
macrumors G4
 
Eraserhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by irnchriz View Post
Legal and 'moral' are two entirely different things. This fact plus these governments are pissed off that they don't get their cut of these billions
Because avoiding tax is good…

Quote:
Originally Posted by irnchriz View Post
regardless of the fact that said governments won't spend any of it on the general populace anyway.
Given how much the US spends on the military you have a bit of a point, however most of the rest of the money (e.g. healthcare, pensions etc) is spent on the "general populace".
__________________
Actually it does make sense. Man created god, so if we exist, He exists. - obeygiant
Eraserhead is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 11, 2014, 04:29 PM   #8
OLDCODGER
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lucky Country
When active in business, I was not only annoyed at the tax rate, but also what it was being spent on, so, suitable arrangements were made.
OLDCODGER is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 11, 2014, 04:29 PM   #9
GuitarDTO
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Love the comment by Chowder-head or whatever his name is about "special secret deals should be outlawed". If governments would stop trying to take money that isn't rightly theirs, subject secret deals wouldn't be needed. As for the US, I'm all for a tax holiday that allows American companies like Apple to bring the cash back home. Even if that means the US government gets their hands on more money that will evaporate instantly.
GuitarDTO is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 11, 2014, 04:30 PM   #10
Eraserhead
macrumors G4
 
Eraserhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarDTO View Post
Love the comment by Chowder-head or whatever his name is about "special secret deals should be outlawed". If governments would stop trying to take money that isn't rightly theirs, subject secret deals wouldn't be needed.
Sorry, what exactly about tax is governments taking money that "isn't rightly theirs"?

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLDCODGER View Post
When active in business, I was not only annoyed at the tax rate, but also what it was being spent on
So what government spending do you object to? Military spending? Pensions? Healthcare for the old and the poor?
__________________
Actually it does make sense. Man created god, so if we exist, He exists. - obeygiant
Eraserhead is offline   4 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 11, 2014, 04:31 PM   #11
tevion5
macrumors 6502a
 
tevion5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ireland
I'm an Apple collector and user and also an Irish citizen. This issue of multinationals not paying much tax is a topical issue here.

See, we don't charge much tax in I order to attract many multinationals. As a result, almost every Silicon Valley company has it's HQ in Ireland today. We also are well educated as speak English.

However, the EU hate that we don't change them enough corporate tax. But, if we did charge them a normal amount, they would most likely leave. Then, we would get no tax and loose all the jobs and infrastructure these campanies bring with them.

I don't think we will see much change. It's not ideal, but it's about the best case scenario for Ireland right now.

Also, the manner in which Google and Apple "dodge" taxes in the US is 100% legal. It's the government that is to blame for any loss in tax. The multinationals can't be blamed for being as efficient as legally possible, within the most capatalist country on earth.
tevion5 is offline   13 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 11, 2014, 04:33 PM   #12
Eraserhead
macrumors G4
 
Eraserhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by tevion5 View Post
I don't think we will see much change. It's not ideal, but it's about the best case scenario for Ireland right now.
I don't disagree, but I'd have thought in a fair world Ireland would only have its fair share of international companies, which given its tiny population probably shouldn't be very high.
__________________
Actually it does make sense. Man created god, so if we exist, He exists. - obeygiant
Eraserhead is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 11, 2014, 04:34 PM   #13
luckydcxx
macrumors 6502a
 
luckydcxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
If Apple manufacturers the phone in China and sells it outside of the US then why should they pay US tax? I think every person on this forum would do the same.

I do think the new Mac pros built and sold in the US should have to be taxed accordingly.
__________________
Write the code. Change the world.

http://youtu.be/eywi0h_Y5_U
luckydcxx is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 11, 2014, 04:36 PM   #14
unlinked
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ireland
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eraserhead View Post
I don't disagree, but I'd have thought in a fair world Ireland would only have its fair share of international companies, which given its tiny population probably shouldn't be very high.
In a fair world people (and countries) compete with each other.
I'm all for equality of opportunity , equality of result not so much.
unlinked is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 11, 2014, 04:36 PM   #15
tevion5
macrumors 6502a
 
tevion5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ireland
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eraserhead View Post
I don't disagree, but I'd have thought in a fair world Ireland would only have its fair share of international companies, which given its tiny population probably shouldn't be very high.
Exactly, things are about as good as they can be for us. We are a low population rock in the Atlantic Ocean. Any business is good business!

But, I understand how the rest of Europe sees this as unfair. However, we don't have the vast industrial power of Germany or France, let alone the resources. We almost need these companies to remain a first world country!
tevion5 is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 11, 2014, 04:38 PM   #16
Eraserhead
macrumors G4
 
Eraserhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by luckydcxx View Post
If Apple manufacturers the phone in China and sells it outside of the US then why should they pay US tax?
It is fair that they pay some US tax on such sales as Americans likely came up with the idea of the phone.
__________________
Actually it does make sense. Man created god, so if we exist, He exists. - obeygiant
Eraserhead is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 11, 2014, 04:38 PM   #17
tevion5
macrumors 6502a
 
tevion5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ireland
Quote:
Originally Posted by unlinked View Post
In a fair world people (and countries) compete with each other.
I'm all for equality of opportunity , equality of result not so much.
Capitalism with a healthy drop of socialism here and there creates the most happy people IMO. Pure unregulated capitalism is 100% fair, and arguably so is communism. However, neither system creates a happy majority.
tevion5 is offline   5 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 11, 2014, 04:45 PM   #18
unlinked
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ireland
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eraserhead View Post
It is fair that they pay some US tax on such sales as Americans likely came up with the idea of the phone.
Shouldn't they be paying Chinese tax on phones sold in the US then?
And UK tax since the A7 is based on UK tech.
unlinked is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 11, 2014, 04:48 PM   #19
apolloa
macrumors 601
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
This has been all over the news today. It's got something to do with 'special' letters the Irish government wrote to Apple advising them on the best way to basically avoid tax penalties. If they are found to have done this then as per the EU have stated, this is a breach of state aid laws.

It was going to come to this eventually, I think the european people are fed up having to pay the full tax, when American giants are paying next to nothing. Hardly fair.
I am in two minds about it personally, on one hand Apple employ I think they said around 2000 people in Ireland, but on the other they are doing so on the back of tax avoidance that possibly IS illegal.

According to the news stories even the US senate have criticised Irelands deals with American corporations on tax.
apolloa is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 11, 2014, 04:48 PM   #20
HyperZboy
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Every international company does this. Apple is just an easy target for criticism.

If the U.S. wants this money in the U.S., all that needs to be done is simplify the tax system and close all the loopholes that allow this, but nobody in either party has the guts to do this, probably not ever in my lifetime.

Tim Cook's secretary probably pays a higher tax rate than him, but that's not his fault. It's the government's fault.
HyperZboy is offline   6 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 11, 2014, 04:49 PM   #21
ctdonath
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLoveiTunes View Post
woah... is that true ? " as U.S. Considers Tax Holiday for Cash Repatriation"
Yes. This has been discussed for a long time. The US gov't doesn't want to do it because it likes that 35% cut, but no way is going to hand over $35,000,000,000 just to bring $65,000,000,000 home when it can do plenty with that cash overseas. Briefly suspending the high tax rate is far more likely to entice to hand over $5,250,000,000 as it could bring $84,750,000,000 home ... when the current situation means the US gov't gets $0.

Another example of the "Laffer Curve": increasing taxes increases revenue up to a point, above which point those subject thereto start taking steps to reduce their tax liabilities, causing tax revenue to decrease.
ctdonath is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 11, 2014, 04:56 PM   #22
apolloa
macrumors 601
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperZboy View Post
Every international company does this. Apple is just an easy target for criticism.

If the U.S. wants this money in the U.S., all that needs to be done is simplify the tax system and close all the loopholes that allow this, but nobody in either party has the guts to do this, probably not ever in my lifetime.

Tim Cook's secretary probably pays a higher tax rate than him, but that's not his fault. It's the government's fault.
If you read the story on the news websites, not here, you will see they are also talking about Fiat and Starbucks in the same breath, so they are not singling out Apple. Fiat is Italian.
apolloa is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 11, 2014, 04:58 PM   #23
Eraserhead
macrumors G4
 
Eraserhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by unlinked View Post
Shouldn't they be paying Chinese tax on phones sold in the US then?
And UK tax since the A7 is based on UK tech.
Yes, that's why international taxation is so complicated.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperZboy View Post
Every international company does this. Apple is just an easy target for criticism.
Very true.
Eraserhead is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 11, 2014, 05:02 PM   #24
crisss1205
macrumors 6502a
 
crisss1205's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Long Island, New York
Send a message via AIM to crisss1205
Quote:
Originally Posted by apolloa View Post
If you read the story on the news websites, not here, you will see they are also talking about Fiat and Starbucks in the same breath, so they are not singling out Apple. Fiat is Italian.
You mean like this sentence on this website?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRumors View Post
The European Commission today launched a formal investigation into Apple's tax arrangements in Ireland, seeking to determine whether the company's tax deals in the country are considered illegal state aid. The Commission is also investigating Starbucks and Fiat Finance & Trade SA.
__________________
 27" iMac  13" Retina MacBook Pro  iPhone 5s  iPad mini
crisss1205 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 11, 2014, 05:04 PM   #25
thekev
macrumors 603
 
thekev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by crisss1205 View Post
You mean like this sentence on this website?
That sentence is extremely funny if read out of context.
__________________
world's largest manufacturer of tin foil hats, none of that aluminum foil crap.
thekev is online now   0 Reply With Quote


Reply
MacRumors Forums > Mac Community > Community Discussion > Politics, Religion, Social Issues

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:51 PM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC