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Old Jun 12, 2014, 10:23 AM   #1
citizenzen
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Iraq Rebellion

Should we do anything to intervene?

I just see this as an inevitable result of having "broken" the country with our invasion.

At this point, I'm inclined to believe we should provide humanitarian help and work with friendly neighboring nations to provide refugee camps and security.

Other than that, let them duke it out and decide for themselves who is going to run that country.
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Old Jun 12, 2014, 10:40 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citizenzen View Post
Should we do anything to intervene?

I just see this as an inevitable result of having "broken" the country with our invasion.

At this point, I'm inclined to believe we should provide humanitarian help and work with friendly neighboring nations to provide refugee camps and security.

Other than that, let them duke it out and decide for themselves who is going to run that country.
no, we are broke. let them deal with their problems.
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Old Jun 12, 2014, 10:46 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citizenzen View Post
Should we do anything to intervene?

I just see this as an inevitable result of having "broken" the country with our invasion.

At this point, I'm inclined to believe we should provide humanitarian help and work with friendly neighboring nations to provide refugee camps and security.

Other than that, let them duke it out and decide for themselves who is going to run that country.
From my point of view its not really "we" (I'm british, I'm guessing you're in the states).

But the west should stop sticking its nose in to other countries affairs and only act in real humanitaria cases, or genocide, and even then it should be the UN, not one country.

Vietnam - Fail
Iraq - Fail
Afghanistan - Fail

Says it all really.
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Old Jun 12, 2014, 10:48 AM   #4
citizenzen
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Says it all really.
I completely agree.

The one difference between Vietnam and Iraq is I'm not so sure we'll be visiting Iraq as tourists a few short years after this [possible] takeover.
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Old Jun 12, 2014, 11:01 AM   #5
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From my point of view its not really "we" (I'm british, I'm guessing you're in the states).

But the west should stop sticking its nose in to other countries affairs and only act in real humanitaria cases, or genocide, and even then it should be the UN, not one country.

Vietnam - Fail
Iraq - Fail
Afghanistan - Fail

Says it all really.
I agree that the US needs to stop being the worlds police. But when other countries decide to step up then we can't stop. And the UN, who do you think is the first country to step foot on soil when the UN needs to intervene? I am not being a USA elitist, just saying I am sick and tired of people saying the UN should deal with it when in fact it's pretty much the US who goes in first. Just my opinion.
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Old Jun 12, 2014, 11:05 AM   #6
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no, we are broke. let them deal with their problems.
You tell 'em. That's how 'Muerica "brings democracy" to the oppressed people of other nations. We bomb the tar out of their infrastructure and leadership, and let them pick up the pieces. Korea? Check. Viet Nam? Check. Lybia? Check. Iran? Check. Afganistan? Check.

Gee, I wonder why the rest of the world has us so much.

Anyhow, I have to agree. At this point anything else we do will only set back their recovery several years. Waaaayyy to much anti-American sentiments.

'Muerica needs to keep its nose out of other nations' internal affairs. We could be the Switzerland of the West. We've got more bankers than Switzerland, thus superior laundering capacity. That's good for the economy as well. If we keep Mexico and Canada happy, we're neigh impossible to invade. Fortress America.
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Old Jun 12, 2014, 11:08 AM   #7
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Oh my.


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This is an incredibly striking sentence from The Guardian's coverage of the militant group the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIS)'s takeover of Iraq's second largest city, Mosul:

Iraqi officials told the Guardian that two divisions of Iraqi soldiers - roughly 30,000 men - simply turned and ran in the face of the assault by an insurgent force of just 800 fighters.

The Iraqi army outnumbered ISIS by about 40:1 in Mosul. Yet the army still turned tail and ran ran so fast, in fact, as to leave some of their tanks and helicopters behind.

This tells us three important things about the conflict between ISIS and the Iraqi government: two bad, and one good.

First, the Iraqi army has serious training and discipline problems. Despite the United States spending billions of dollars training the Iraqi army before the American withdrawal at the end of 2011, the Iraqi army is chronically unable to fight like a professional military.

Soldiers have been deserting in large numbers for some time. In Mosul, soldiers didn't run because they were doomed to defeat at the hands of a much smaller ISIS force. They ran because they didn't want to fight.
http://www.vox.com/2014/6/12/5803416...nce-iraqi-army
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Old Jun 12, 2014, 11:13 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by citizenzen View Post
Should we do anything to intervene?

I just see this as an inevitable result of having "broken" the country with our invasion.

At this point, I'm inclined to believe we should provide humanitarian help and work with friendly neighboring nations to provide refugee camps and security.

Other than that, let them duke it out and decide for themselves who is going to run that country.
Something. Yes.

Anything. No.


While I considered Baby Bush invasion a disaster and highly questionable, it was good we got rid of Saddam.

The... well, I do not want to go about how botched the invasion was, but ironically Bush sowed the seeds for a new Al Queda (or whatever), so we need to keep it in check, some how.
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Old Jun 12, 2014, 11:29 AM   #9
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... so we need to keep it in check, some how.
It would seem to me that "keeping it in check" means keeping it as well within the borders of Iraq as possible.
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Old Jun 12, 2014, 11:42 AM   #10
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NO. Stay the ******* out of there. The Middle East is a s***hole and always will be until they learn to contain their own extremists. We can topple every single dictator there, they will only get new ones. They don't want our help and they hate us. We shouldn't spend a single red cent there anymore.
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Old Jun 12, 2014, 12:13 PM   #11
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NO. Stay the ******* out of there. The Middle East is a s***hole and always will be until they learn to contain their own extremists. We can topple every single dictator there, they will only get new ones. They don't want our help and they hate us. We shouldn't spend a single red cent there anymore.

We'll said
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Old Jun 12, 2014, 01:00 PM   #12
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We should be willing to provide humanitarian aid since this is somewhat our fault since we got rid of Saddam who was the one keeping Iraq stable. But beyond that we shouldn't get involved, and even if we had full support for going in again there is nothing we could do but keep soldiers there to prop up the government until we run out of money or get tired of American soldiers being killed every day and leave again at which point this will happen all over again. At this point the best we can do is stay out and just work with neighbouring countries to try to prevent more weapons from getting into the country.
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Old Jun 12, 2014, 01:14 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by sim667 View Post
From my point of view its not really "we" (I'm british, I'm guessing you're in the states).

But the west should stop sticking its nose in to other countries affairs and only act in real humanitaria cases, or genocide, and even then it should be the UN, not one country.

Vietnam - Fail
Iraq - Fail
Afghanistan - Fail

Says it all really.
You forgot the Korean mess.
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Old Jun 12, 2014, 01:23 PM   #14
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You forgot the Korean mess.
For that matter, we forgot Grenada as well.

BL.
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Old Jun 12, 2014, 01:30 PM   #15
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Seriously people don't you ever learn from your mistakes.
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Old Jun 12, 2014, 01:41 PM   #16
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Seriously people don't you ever learn from your mistakes.
I'm going to say no.

Really, at this point, I blame the rest of the world for letting the United States be in charge of nation building.
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Old Jun 12, 2014, 01:45 PM   #17
citizenzen
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Seriously people don't you ever learn from your mistakes.
Are you talking about the members here?

I have seen little interest in exerting our will in Iraq again.
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Old Jun 12, 2014, 01:46 PM   #18
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The strategic significance of the dependence on oil...

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Originally Posted by iBlazed View Post
NO. Stay the ******* out of there. The Middle East is a s***hole and always will be until they learn to contain their own extremists. We can topple every single dictator there, they will only get new ones. They don't want our help and they hate us. We shouldn't spend a single red cent there anymore.
Since WWII, the primary impetus for the nation's involvement in the Gulf has been (and still is) oil. The freedom the U.S. in most concerned about concerns the free flow of oil.
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Old Jun 12, 2014, 03:40 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by iBlazed View Post
NO. Stay the ******* out of there. The Middle East is a s***hole and always will be until they learn to contain their own extremists. We can topple every single dictator there, they will only get new ones. They don't want our help and they hate us. We shouldn't spend a single red cent there anymore.
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Since WWII, the primary impetus for the nation's involvement in the Gulf has been (and still is) oil. The freedom the U.S. in most concerned about concerns the free flow of oil.
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Originally Posted by Mousse View Post
You tell 'em. That's how 'Muerica "brings democracy" to the oppressed people of other nations. We bomb the tar out of their infrastructure and leadership, and let them pick up the pieces. Korea? Check. Viet Nam? Check. Lybia? Check. Iran? Check. Afganistan? Check.

Gee, I wonder why the rest of the world has us so much.

Anyhow, I have to agree. At this point anything else we do will only set back their recovery several years. Waaaayyy to much anti-American sentiments.

'Muerica needs to keep its nose out of other nations' internal affairs. We could be the Switzerland of the West. We've got more bankers than Switzerland, thus superior laundering capacity. That's good for the economy as well. If we keep Mexico and Canada happy, we're neigh impossible to invade. Fortress America.

But... but... how do the rich republicans and their defense contractor buddies line their pockets, pad their bank accounts, and buy their third yacht and private jet???


Eisenhower warned us about the military industrial complex. Americans are just too ****ing stupid to listen. Keep voting in these warmonger scumbags who send our troops off to war so our defense contractors can make more money and they can get more kickbacks and this is what happens.

It's not about "policing the world" or "spreading democracy", it's about making money. Plain and simple.


As for Iraq... not my chair, not my problem, that's what I say.
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Old Jun 12, 2014, 03:42 PM   #20
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Since WWII, the primary impetus for the nation's involvement in the Gulf has been (and still is) oil. The freedom the U.S. in most concerned about concerns the free flow of oil.
Then theoretically fuel prices should have decreased since 2003.
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Old Jun 12, 2014, 04:18 PM   #21
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I completely agree.

The one difference between Vietnam and Iraq is I'm not so sure we'll be visiting Iraq as tourists a few short years after this [possible] takeover.
Yeah but un intervention rather than direct us intervention is normally more productive and doesn't end up in quite the same level of hatred us intervention occurs. Even if the us is physically the first in, but as part of the UN.
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Old Jun 12, 2014, 04:18 PM   #22
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Then theoretically fuel prices should have decreased since 2003.
You're missing the big picture which is "oil is strategic". National policies have reflected that reality since the Carter era and before that, we had agreements with Saudi Arabia reached during WWII.

There are no U.S. government policies regarding the price of oil. The magic of the market takes care of that. If you have questions about the price of gas, talk to Exxon, etc.
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Old Jun 12, 2014, 05:39 PM   #23
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It would seem to me that "keeping it in check" means keeping it as well within the borders of Iraq as possible.
The Kurds have moved quickly to take over positions that the Iraqi army vacated, uniformed Baathists have appeared in Tikrit, and Iran is promising the Shi'ite dominated central government it's full support and has been deploying units of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards to fight in support of the Iraqi central government.........so we're gonna be allies with Iran this time?

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Old Jun 12, 2014, 05:53 PM   #24
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The problem is the Iraquian army, even when outnumbering their opponents and having better weapons, they run away from combat.

Defend your country and family!
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Old Jun 12, 2014, 05:58 PM   #25
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I just see this as an inevitable result of having "broken" the country with our invasion..
The country was broken long before the U.S. invasion, that's why it needed to be invaded.
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