Go Back   MacRumors Forums > Mac Community > Community Discussion > Politics, Religion, Social Issues

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Jun 15, 2014, 12:23 AM   #1
bradl
macrumors 68030
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
US Political split outgrows the voting booth

From Mark 12:31 of the Bible, English Standard Edition, and King James Edition, respectively:

Quote:
The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”
Quote:
And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
I caught this from the AP today, and to be honest, this worries me as much as the 2A issue we have going on. In short, A new survey from the Pew Research Center finds Americans are divided by ideology and partisanship not only when they cast ballots, but also in choosing where to live, where to get their news and with whom to associate. And peaceful coexistence is increasingly difficult.

So, I guess that should be "'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these… unless your political ideologies are different."

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/us-po...s-voting-booth
Quote:
IN US, POLITICAL SPLIT OUTGROWS THE VOTING BOOTH
By JENNIFER AGIESTA

WASHINGTON (AP) — Political polarization in America has broken out of the voting booth.

A new survey from the Pew Research Center finds Americans are divided by ideology and partisanship not only when they cast ballots, but also in choosing where to live, where to get their news and with whom to associate.

And peaceful coexistence is increasingly difficult.

According to the poll, the share of Americans who hold across-the-board conservative or liberal views has doubled in the last decade, from 10 percent in 2004 to 21 percent today. Only 39 percent of Americans have an even mix of liberal and conservative positions, down from 49 percent 10 years ago.

The numbers of ideological purists are larger among the politically engaged than the general public, suggesting the ideological stalemates that have become more common in Washington and statehouses around the country are likely to continue. A third of those who say they regularly vote in primaries have all-or-nothing ideological views, as do 41 percent who say they have donated money to a campaign.

And among partisans, ideological purity is now the standard. Majorities in both parties hold either uniformly liberal (on the Democratic side) or conservative (among the GOP) views.

The shift toward ideological purity has been more visible among Republicans due to the popularity of the tea party, seen most recently this week in House Majority Leader Eric Cantor's loss to a tea party-based challenger in Virginia, but the survey found it's happening in nearly equal measure among Democrats.

Those differences in visibility are partly due to the Democratic hold on the White House, according to Pew Research Center Vice President Michael Dimock.

"Levels of alarm about the direction of the nation, and about the 'threat' the other party poses to the country, are substantially higher on the right than on the left right now, and at least in part this reflects the fact that Barack Obama is in the White House," Dimock said.

But Democrats have expressed their share of distrust in the past, he noted in an email. "Democrats felt pretty passionately about George W. Bush and the GOP in his second term," he said.

The survey used a battery of 10 questions on issues such as regulation of business, use of the military, the environment and immigration to assess ideological leanings. Across nine of the 10 issues tested, the views of Democrats and Republicans have grown further apart since 1994.

These ideological shifts have been accompanied by increasing animosity across party lines, and those on opposite sides of the partisan and ideological divide are now more apt to separate themselves in their personal lives as well.

About 8 in 10 Democrats say they have an unfavorable opinion of the Republican Party, and for 82 percent of Republicans, the feeling is mutual. This cross-party dislike has increased by double digits on both sides.

Among those with ideologically consistent views in each party, many go further than dislike and say they see the other side as a threat to the nation's well-being. Republicans with consistently conservative views are more apt than Democrats with a strictly liberal view to see the opposite party as a threat, however, 66 percent to 50 percent.

Amid all this rancor, partisans and those with clear ideological leanings are more often choosing to associate only with those who hold views similar to their own. Two-thirds of consistent conservatives and half of consistent liberals say most of their close friends share their political views. Three in 10 on each side of the divide say it's important to them to live in a place where most people share their political views.

And one-quarter of consistent liberals say they'd be unhappy if an immediate family member married a Republican, 30 percent of consistent conservatives say the same about a union with a Democrat.

The findings are based on a telephone survey of 10,013 randomly selected adults nationwide, conducted between Jan. 23 and March 16. Results based on the full sample have a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 1.1 percentage points.
If we can't live together despite our political differences, we have a much bigger issue going on in this country.

BL.
bradl is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 15, 2014, 12:45 AM   #2
iBlazed
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Home of Gov. Chris Crispy
This is getting ridiculous honestly.
iBlazed is online now   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 15, 2014, 01:02 AM   #3
jkcerda
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
I don't see the problem
jkcerda is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 15, 2014, 01:14 AM   #4
localoid
macrumors 68020
 
localoid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: America's Third World
It does seem that the U.S. culture has become increasingly polarized and polemical during the last couple of decades. Whatever the issue may be, the news talk-and-interview shows tend to frame every issue as a grand debate. Rarely are voices from the middle heard.

Critical thinking has been replaced by black-and-white thinking, despite the fact that the real world is made of shades of grey. All-or-nothing and zero-sum mentality rule.
__________________
My remake of the definitive Populuxe film on 1950s automotive, industrial/interior/architectural design: American Look (1958), Reimagined
localoid is online now   2 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 15, 2014, 01:17 AM   #5
Renzatic
macrumors 604
 
Renzatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Who puts the washers in the woods?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkcerda View Post
I don't see the problem
The more polarized he voting public becomes, the more likely they are to vote in firebrand politicians. Firebrand politicans tend not to compromise on anything. The end result will be a bunch of angry republicans and democrats staring at each other across the aisle, wishing they could make people drop dead with a stare.

...because these people aren't true Americans! They're gonna ruin the country with their backwards ideas. I have to stand firm to my convictions, and not budge an inch! My constituency is depending on me!

Nothing will get done at the government level. Democrats can't do this thing because the republicans are blocking it, and the republicans can't do that thing because the democrats are filibustering it, and we have government shutdown after government shutdown after government shut down because no one can agree on anything.

And that's the problem.
Renzatic is offline   4 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 15, 2014, 01:22 AM   #6
bradl
Thread Starter
macrumors 68030
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkcerda View Post
I don't see the problem
Okay.. how about a nationwide political version of Hatfields vs. McCoys. We can't stand to live near each other or next door to each other because our political ideologies are so polar opposite of each other…

To the point where there is either major conflict in the neighborhood, or someone moves away to be with their own like/kind.

That is not how you get along with each other, regardless of the neighborhood you live in. That is the problem.

BL.
bradl is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 15, 2014, 01:27 AM   #7
jonbravo77
macrumors 6502a
 
jonbravo77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkcerda View Post
I don't see the problem
And this thinking is part of the problem. There are too many that either don't think there is a problem or don't care there is a problem. I feel that we are coming very close to a big political and ideological atomic bomb going off. Not saying that there will be mass chaos or rioting in the streets but something big will happen that will change a lot of things. And quite frankly maybe that needs to happen. Get rid of this "oh there's not a problem with the system" mentality. Get folks to take off their blinders and really see what is going on not only in our country but the world. And maybe more social caring will happen.
jonbravo77 is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 15, 2014, 04:05 AM   #8
vrDrew
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkcerda View Post
I don't see the problem
I would tend to agree with you.

Except a not-insignificant minority of people has chosen to accompany the phrase "Take Our Country Back" with the image of an assault rifle, rather than a election ballot (hanging chads and all..)

If this phenomenon was limited to bumper stickers and t-shirts, it would be possible to overlook it as the sort of intemperate excess common to all political beliefs.

But its not:

The Tea Party - funded by Koch and other billionaire dollars and fanned by the incendiary hot air of Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity - has created an atmosphere so toxic, and unwilling to compromise it is eating the Republican Party from the inside out.

More concerning still, it views our President and the Democratic Party in general, not as loyal opposition with whom compromise and bargaining are possible (if not essential) - but instead as treacherous enemies, usurpers to be removed by any means possible - including at the point of a gun.

More ironic still, many of these Tea Party scoundrels profess their "Christianity"

Love Thy Neighbor, indeed.

Last edited by vrDrew; Jun 15, 2014 at 04:11 AM.
vrDrew is offline   4 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 15, 2014, 04:28 AM   #9
Happybunny
macrumors 68000
 
Happybunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 's-Hertogenbosch Netherlands
Seen as an outsider.

All the problems of America’s toxic political landscape can be traced back to the TWO party system. It's the winner takes all attitude, which also doesn't help, and only leads to feels of revenge/getting even at all costs.

From that point on everything becomes , them vs us, right vs left, rich vs poor, there is no room for compromise.

The party out of power does everything to block the party in power, even if this is bad for the country as a whole.

Another point is the constant use of the word “WAR” in US policy, War on Drugs, War on poverty, War on Christmas, etc. This makes the whole discussion adversarial before the first word is spoken.
__________________
'You cannot undo history, but you can learn from it'
Happybunny is offline   4 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 15, 2014, 04:30 AM   #10
skunk
macrumors Demi-God
 
skunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Republic of Ukistan
It's not an unusual problem these days. It's happening all over the Middle East. The divide in the US has a very "Sunni vs Shia" flavour to it.
skunk is offline   6 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 15, 2014, 08:33 AM   #11
iBlazed
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Home of Gov. Chris Crispy
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkcerda View Post
I don't see the problem
That's the problem.
iBlazed is online now   4 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 15, 2014, 09:31 AM   #12
VulchR
macrumors 68000
 
VulchR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Scotland
Demographics and reality will soon take care of this split. One side of the political spectrum seems to align itself with evidence-based policy, the other with willful ignorance and denial. The latter will simply disappear over time.
__________________
My first was a Mac+. Now I own an iPhone with 3.5x the pixels, a colour display, WiFi, 512x the RAM, >1500x the data storage, and 100x the speed. And it fits in the palm of my hand.
VulchR is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 15, 2014, 11:25 AM   #13
Technarchy
macrumors 601
 
Technarchy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
The word one is looking for is Balkanization.
__________________
Steve Jobs, January 9th 2007, 10:44am: "We filed for over 200 patents for all the inventions in iPhone and we intend to protect them."
Technarchy is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 15, 2014, 12:14 PM   #14
vrDrew
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post
The word one is looking for is Balkanization.
Actually, the word I think you want is "Gerrymandering."

If you think about, the deliberate creation of safe "Republican" or "Democratic" districts inevitably leads the incumbent to become more and more partisan in their voting record, and less interested in compromise and negotiation.

Safe from a challenger from the opposing party, the incumbent then becomes vulnerable to primary challenger even more extreme in his position than he is. And so we have a race to the extremes of American political philosophy. And little chance of much bipartisan action on any matter - no matter how pressing it may be to the theoretical majority of the American electorate.
vrDrew is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 15, 2014, 01:03 PM   #15
jkcerda
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
you guys have nice rose colored glasses.
thanks to dems & repubs working together we got
Patriot Act
NSA
NDAA
never ending war.

IF the democrats AND the republicans worked to represent the PEOPLE instead of CORPORATIONS, then yes I would love it if they came together. BOTH major crap houses need to be flushed down the toilet.
jkcerda is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 15, 2014, 01:15 PM   #16
iBlazed
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Home of Gov. Chris Crispy
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkcerda View Post
you guys have nice rose colored glasses.
thanks to dems & repubs working together we got
Patriot Act
NSA
NDAA
never ending war.

IF the democrats AND the republicans worked to represent the PEOPLE instead of CORPORATIONS, then yes I would love it if they came together. BOTH major crap houses need to be flushed down the toilet.
You stop it with that anti-American talk.
iBlazed is online now   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 15, 2014, 01:45 PM   #17
Eraserhead
macrumors G4
 
Eraserhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happybunny View Post
Seen as an outsider.

All the problems of America’s toxic political landscape can be traced back to the TWO party system.
I don't agree. It is perfectly possible here to have friends on both sides of the political spectrum here because we largely avoid culture wars nonsense.

It's the culture wars that make bipartisan friendships hard. Fundamentally if you are too socially liberal then social conservatives aren't going to be comfortable with you and vice versa.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkcerda View Post
you guys have nice rose colored glasses.
thanks to dems & repubs working together we got
Patriot Act
NSA
NDAA
never ending war.

IF the democrats AND the republicans worked to represent the PEOPLE instead of CORPORATIONS, then yes I would love it if they came together. BOTH major crap houses need to be flushed down the toilet.
Can't disagree.
Eraserhead is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 16, 2014, 12:54 PM   #18
Huntn
macrumors 604
 
Huntn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: The Misty Mountains
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkcerda View Post
I don't see the problem


No wonder...
__________________
The modern business ethos: "I'm worth it, you're not, and I'm a glutton!"
MBP, 2.2 GHz intel i7, Radeon HD 6750M, Bootcamp: W7.
PC: i5 4670k, 8GB RAM, Asus GTX670 (2GB VRAM), W7.
Huntn is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 16, 2014, 01:10 PM   #19
Technarchy
macrumors 601
 
Technarchy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by vrDrew View Post
Actually, the word I think you want is "Gerrymandering."
Might want to look back to May 25, 1787 and see deep schisms existed then. Long before modern gerrymandering.

The issue now is the feds are more entrenched in state affairs, which makes the divide more pronounced because you have people Montana wondering why the hell nonsensical initiatives from Massachusetts are being rammed down their throat.

And in the age of information your value system is attacked quicker and more frequently, so you'll more inclined to seek insulation "among your own".
__________________
Steve Jobs, January 9th 2007, 10:44am: "We filed for over 200 patents for all the inventions in iPhone and we intend to protect them."
Technarchy is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 16, 2014, 01:23 PM   #20
Huntn
macrumors 604
 
Huntn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: The Misty Mountains
Quote:
Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post
Might want to look back to May 25, 1787 and see deep schisms existed then. Long before modern gerrymandering.

The issue now is the feds are more entrenched in state affairs, which makes the divide more pronounced because you have people Montana wondering why the hell nonsensical initiatives from Massachusetts are being rammed down their throat.

And in the age of information your value system is attacked quicker and more frequently, so you'll more inclined to seek insulation "among your own".
Along the same lines as non-sensical abolition was forced on the South? This is not a personal attack, only highlighting why "States Rights" is not always better. It's like saying, it's our right to be prejudiced if the majority in our area feels this way. Of course IMO, those in charge of the Federal authority would have to be progressive for this to work.
__________________
The modern business ethos: "I'm worth it, you're not, and I'm a glutton!"
MBP, 2.2 GHz intel i7, Radeon HD 6750M, Bootcamp: W7.
PC: i5 4670k, 8GB RAM, Asus GTX670 (2GB VRAM), W7.
Huntn is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 16, 2014, 01:30 PM   #21
PracticalMac
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradl View Post
I caught this from the AP today, and to be honest, this worries me as much as the 2A issue we have going on. In short, A new survey from the Pew Research Center finds Americans are divided by ideology and partisanship not only when they cast ballots, but also in choosing where to live, where to get their news and with whom to associate. And peaceful coexistence is increasingly difficult.
Sounds like present day Syria and Iraq
__________________
FireWire 1394 Intelligent network guaranteed data transfer, 1500mA power, Ethernet compatible
Read: 160 files, 650MB total, FW400 70% faster then USB2
Write: 160 files, 650MB total, FW400 48% faster
PracticalMac is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 16, 2014, 01:36 PM   #22
Southern Dad
macrumors 6502a
 
Southern Dad's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Walt Disney World
Funny thing is while the Democrats are blaming Gerrymandering for the loss of the House, the district were the same in 2006 when the Democrats took control, 2008 when the Democrats kept control, as they were in 2010 when the Republicans took control. Districts only change every ten years.
Southern Dad is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 16, 2014, 01:40 PM   #23
Eraserhead
macrumors G4
 
Eraserhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
Funny thing is while the Democrats are blaming Gerrymandering for the loss of the House, the district were the same in 2006 when the Democrats took control, 2008 when the Democrats kept control, as they were in 2010 when the Republicans took control. Districts only change every ten years.
I presume they are only blaming gerrymandering for the loss of the house in 2012 .
__________________
Actually it does make sense. Man created god, so if we exist, He exists. - obeygiant
Eraserhead is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 16, 2014, 02:11 PM   #24
Southern Dad
macrumors 6502a
 
Southern Dad's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Walt Disney World
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eraserhead View Post
I presume they are only blaming gerrymandering for the loss of the house in 2012 .
Makes sense… So how do they explain that "shellacking" in 2010?
Southern Dad is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jun 16, 2014, 02:30 PM   #25
bradl
Thread Starter
macrumors 68030
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
Makes sense… So how do they explain that "shellacking" in 2010?
The same. Gerrymandering.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...dHrK_blog.html

http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/18/politics/gerrymandering/

From the latter:

Quote:
Race has been used to create a political divide in the South. In the five Deep Dixie states -- South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana -- only nine Democrats are left in Congress. Only one is white. He is Georgia Democrat John Barrow, and Republican control in that state's legislature has led to his home city of Savannah being excluded from his current district.


In 2010, Republicans captured control of North Carolina's legislature for the first time since shortly after the Civil War. They drew district lines in a way to pack 49% of all of North Carolina's African-American voters in just three of the state's 13 congressional districts. That left the other 10 districts mostly white and predictably Republican.

Democrats in North Carolina accuse the GOP of political "resegregation." A court battle is looming.
The former link shows 10 different congressional districts that were redrawn for that election. You keep talking about "shellacking", when you completely ignore or are oblivious to what truly happened.

BL.
bradl is offline   2 Reply With Quote


Reply
MacRumors Forums > Mac Community > Community Discussion > Politics, Religion, Social Issues

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Voting Rules and Regs Huntn Politics, Religion, Social Issues 34 Nov 4, 2013 07:40 PM
Trying to make a voting ballot histo243 Mac Basics and Help 0 Aug 24, 2013 10:45 PM
Military and voting? 63dot Politics, Religion, Social Issues 12 Mar 2, 2013 11:47 AM
Who's NOT voting and why? LIVEFRMNYC Politics, Religion, Social Issues 79 Sep 14, 2012 04:55 AM
Absentee Voting! Huntn Politics, Religion, Social Issues 2 Sep 12, 2012 01:55 PM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:23 PM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC