Go Back   MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > iOS Blog Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Jul 6, 2014, 04:41 PM   #1
MacRumors
macrumors bot
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Korean Government Orders Apple and Google to Change 'No-Refund' App Store Policies




Apple and Google have been ordered by South Korea's Fair Trade Commission to revise their "no-refund" app store policies in addition to a number of other provisions, reports The Korea Herald. In response to the ruling, Apple reportedly stated that it would consider applying a revised App Store policy worldwide, with Korean officials requiring that Apple send a notice users when its terms and conditions have changed.
Quote:
Following the FTC orders, the Google Play webstore will design a customer refund system based on Web developers' refund polices. Apple's iTunes app store will have to send a notice to users when it changes the terms in its contract.

"We expect the measure, aimed at protecting consumers, will have a ripple effect on similar cases throughout the world," the Korea Fair Trade Commission said in a press release.
In 2011, the Taiwanese government also pressured Apple and Google to modify their app store policies, with Apple enabling a 7-day refund period. However, it was unclear at the time what changes were made by Apple in order to comply with the law, as the company may have simply addressed it by granting refunds upon request.

Under the current policy, Apple does not offer an automatic way to get refunds for apps. However, refunds have been made available on a case by case basis, as users are able to "Report a Problem" on their purchases to go through iTunes Support. In May, Apple began preventing updates and reinstallation of refunded App Store apps, which was also extended to the Mac App Store.

Article Link: Korean Government Orders Apple and Google to Change 'No-Refund' App Store Policies
MacRumors is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 6, 2014, 04:43 PM   #2
goobot
macrumors 601
 
goobot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: long island NY
They should just set up their stores where you can trial a full app for 24 hours, after it stops working unless it's bought.
__________________
Unibody Macbook |iPad|Apple TV 2|Black iPhone 6
goobot is offline   5 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 6, 2014, 04:59 PM   #3
EricTheHalfBee
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Stupid idea. Apps are dirt cheap. If I spend $0.99 or $1.99 on an App and don't like it, then I've lost nothing.

I have made more expensive purchases (over $25) that I didn't like and a quick support ticket later I was refunded. So it's already possible to get refunds. Making it so that all Apps (including the $0.99 ones) can be refunded is just a huge waste in processing (for example, charging your CC and then refunding $0.99 later on).

If they do this it should only Apply to Apps over a certain price, just like many retail stores request a minimum purchase if you use a credit or debit card.
EricTheHalfBee is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 6, 2014, 05:02 PM   #4
jameslmoser
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post
Stupid idea. Apps are dirt cheap. If I spend $0.99 or $1.99 on an App and don't like it, then I've lost nothing.

I have made more expensive purchases (over $25) that I didn't like and a quick support ticket later I was refunded. So it's already possible to get refunds. Making it so that all Apps (including the $0.99 ones) can be refunded is just a huge waste in processing (for example, charging your CC and then refunding $0.99 later on).

If they do this it should only Apply to Apps over a certain price, just like many retail stores request a minimum purchase if you use a credit or debit card.
They could just offer store credit so its applied to future purchases leaving the credit card company out of it.
jameslmoser is offline   5 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 6, 2014, 05:14 PM   #5
macs4nw
macrumors 68020
 
macs4nw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: On Safari…..
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameslmoser View Post
They could just offer store credit so its applied to future purchases leaving the credit card company out of it.
Definitely simpler, but probably won't satisfy the Korean Fair Trade Commission.
__________________
Due to my aversion to bragging and clichés, no words of wisdom to be found on this line.....
macs4nw is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 6, 2014, 05:20 PM   #6
winston1236
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: ><
Good news for consumers.
winston1236 is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 6, 2014, 05:29 PM   #7
gkpm
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Quote:
"We expect the measure, aimed at protecting consumers, will have a ripple effect on similar cases throughout the world," the Korea Fair Trade Commission said in a press release.
Jeez guys, a bit full of yourselves aren't you... You think this is Gangnam-Style material?


Quote:
“South Korea is ahead of other countries in dealing with unfair business practices
Joke of the century coming from a country run by chaebols.
gkpm is offline   10 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 6, 2014, 07:14 PM   #8
dazed
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
At least the google play store allow you to return the app for a refund within 15 mins. Apple should think about implementing something similar.

Would certainly weed out the more crappier apps.
dazed is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 6, 2014, 07:18 PM   #9
ChristianJapan
macrumors Demi-God
 
ChristianJapan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: 日本
But bad news for smaller devs ... I think apple's cut remain in their pockets ?
The dev pays full. Not good for many smaller devs. We can expect more free apps with more ads in addition to reduce such risks.
__________________
Member of MacRumors.com Folding@Home Team (#3446) & developer of the F@H Mobile Monitoring app.
ChristianJapan is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 6, 2014, 07:27 PM   #10
taptic
macrumors 65816
 
taptic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: California
...It doesn't need changing. This is business and all business is unfair.
__________________
If you want a cool new feature on a Samsung phone, just suggest it to Apple.
taptic is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 6, 2014, 07:59 PM   #11
macs4nw
macrumors 68020
 
macs4nw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: On Safari…..
Quote: “South Korea is ahead of other countries in dealing with unfair business practices as it has exclusive laws to regulate unfair clauses,” said Yoon Chul-hwan, an official at the Citizens’ Coalition for Economic Justice.

Seems like a tad hypocritical coming from a country where on a regular basis, criminals convicted of corruption receive full and unconditional pardons from the government, and subsequently without skipping a beat, are reinstated to run huge multinational companies once again, "lest the economy should be disrupted".

Perhaps first practice what you preach…..
__________________
Due to my aversion to bragging and clichés, no words of wisdom to be found on this line.....

Last edited by macs4nw; Jul 6, 2014 at 08:14 PM.
macs4nw is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 6, 2014, 08:49 PM   #12
JoeyCloverfield
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
I think the best way to handle refunds is by making the "Buy" button into a "Return" button once the user has chosen to "Buy" the app.

The app downloads like normal, but behind the scenes, the actual charge is placed on a timer. Technically, you haven't paid for the app yet.

If you don't go back to the App Store and click that Return button within a certain amount of time, it's officially purchased.


You would only be able to do this once per app. With developer's being able to reset it. For example: they update the app to 2.0 and want to give you another chance to try it out.
JoeyCloverfield is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 6, 2014, 09:00 PM   #13
PocketSand11
macrumors 6502a
 
PocketSand11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: ~/
This is a horrible idea. Apps that don't save any persistent data or aren't going to be used for long will keep getting bought and refunded. Need to use this paid utility for a week? It's free, even if the dev is asking for $30. Even if they prevent multiple purchases/returns, you can just use another account if you ever want to do that again.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by winston1236 View Post
Good news for consumers.
No. Expect "free" apps with in-app purchases and loads of ads to increase in number.
__________________
'08 MP, '09 MBP, JB iPhone 5
Fun fact: iPhone 5 aspect ratio = 640/1136 ≈ .5634. 9/16 = .5625. 639/1136 = .5625. Its screen is exactly one pixel too wide to be 9:16.
PocketSand11 is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 6, 2014, 09:22 PM   #14
Plutonius
macrumors 601
 
Plutonius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New Hampshire
Quote:
Originally Posted by dazed View Post
At least the google play store allow you to return the app for a refund within 15 mins. Apple should think about implementing something similar.

Would certainly weed out the more crappier apps.
Doesn't satisfy the Korean requirements and Google will have to change the Google play store per the Korean recommendation.
Plutonius is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 6, 2014, 09:27 PM   #15
Xenc
macrumors 6502a
 
Xenc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: London, England
It's important to note that when refunding apps, Apple keeps their 30% cut and charges it to the developer. This means the developer makes a net loss!
Xenc is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 6, 2014, 10:13 PM   #16
dermeister
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
 
I have a feeling Samsung is behind this. They control neither the App Store or Google Play, and this way they don't get customers complaining to them about refunds on Apps. Depends on exactly what the ruling is, but this could easily be abused.
__________________
uBar 2 - The Dock replacement for the Mac.
dermeister is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 6, 2014, 10:24 PM   #17
velocityg4
macrumors 68040
 
velocityg4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Georgia
Quote:
Originally Posted by goobot View Post
They should just set up their stores where you can trial a full app for 24 hours, after it stops working unless it's bought.
They'd have to setup some method for games to be blocked from this after a certain percent is complete. Otherwise people could buy a game, beat the main game then get a refund.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post
Stupid idea. Apps are dirt cheap. If I spend $0.99 or $1.99 on an App and don't like it, then I've lost nothing.

I have made more expensive purchases (over $25) that I didn't like and a quick support ticket later I was refunded. So it's already possible to get refunds. Making it so that all Apps (including the $0.99 ones) can be refunded is just a huge waste in processing (for example, charging your CC and then refunding $0.99 later on).

If they do this it should only Apply to Apps over a certain price, just like many retail stores request a minimum purchase if you use a credit or debit card.
I would say it would be nice to have this process even for free apps. If just to have an easy means to permanently remove an app from your account. I rarely get anything because I don't want to see anything I didn't like cluttering up my account. At least with a computer if I don't like a program I can throw out the disc and wipe it off the hard drive.
__________________
Quadra 650 040 33MHz 72MB RAM, 2GB HD, 2x CD
Macbook C2D 2.0Ghz; 3GB RAM, 500GB HD
Home Made i5 4.0Ghz, GeForce 560 Ti, 16GB RAM, 256GB SSD RAID 0, 3TB HD RAID 0 in a G5 Case.
velocityg4 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 6, 2014, 10:33 PM   #18
jeffe
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post
Making it so that all Apps (including the $0.99 ones) can be refunded is just a huge waste in processing (for example, charging your CC and then refunding $0.99 later on).
They can authorize the card and settle it only after the refund window passes, if the refund window is small duration of time. I know Google play has a 15 minute refund window but they'll also refund you after that window has passed if you ask.
jeffe is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 6, 2014, 10:41 PM   #19
dermeister
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by velocityg4 View Post
I would say it would be nice to have this process even for free apps. If just to have an easy means to permanently remove an app from your account. I rarely get anything because I don't want to see anything I didn't like cluttering up my account. At least with a computer if I don't like a program I can throw out the disc and wipe it off the hard drive.
Hah! Good take. Yeah they should really make it possible to purge junk from your account.
__________________
uBar 2 - The Dock replacement for the Mac.
dermeister is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 6, 2014, 11:11 PM   #20
dazed
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plutonius View Post
Doesn't satisfy the Korean requirements and Google will have to change the Google play store per the Korean recommendation.
Understood, but at least it's a better policy than Apple has in place at the moment. Sometimes people want a refund. There should be a window you can return within and that window should protect developers as well as the users from abuse.

I'd settle for a few hours and also means that people may try more apps if they know they can return if they don't prove useful.
dazed is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 6, 2014, 11:32 PM   #21
IGregory
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by goobot View Post
They should just set up their stores where you can trial a full app for 24 hours, after it stops working unless it's bought.
At this years WWDC Apple announced App previews: Developers can post short videos of apps to the App Store. This should go a long ways towards fixing the problem.
__________________
The happy owner of a Mid-2012 Macbook Pro w/Retina Display, iPad Air and iPhone 5s .
IGregory is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 7, 2014, 12:32 AM   #22
dumastudetto
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Just pull the business out of South Korea. Simples.
dumastudetto is online now   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 7, 2014, 12:54 AM   #23
Mr. Retrofire
macrumors 601
 
Mr. Retrofire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: www.emiliana.cl
Quote:
Originally Posted by gkpm View Post
Jeez guys, a bit full of yourselves aren't you...
I can see what you mean. Don't protect the customers, protect multi-billion Dollar companies.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by macs4nw View Post
...country where on a regular basis, criminals...

...Perhaps first practice what you preach...
You mix two things, which have nothing to do with each other.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by dumastudetto View Post
Just pull the business out of South Korea. Simples.
Why do you have simple solutions for everything!?
__________________

“Only the dead have seen the end of the war.”
-- Plato --
Mr. Retrofire is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 7, 2014, 12:56 AM   #24
H2SO4
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post
Stupid idea. Apps are dirt cheap. If I spend $0.99 or $1.99 on an App and don't like it, then I've lost nothing.

I have made more expensive purchases (over $25) that I didn't like and a quick support ticket later I was refunded. So it's already possible to get refunds. Making it so that all Apps (including the $0.99 ones) can be refunded is just a huge waste in processing (for example, charging your CC and then refunding $0.99 later on).

If they do this it should only Apply to Apps over a certain price, just like many retail stores request a minimum purchase if you use a credit or debit card.
So it’s 99¢ big deal. No!
These apps are supposed to be vetted and in some cases they are not. As vetting is part of the, (seemingly arbitrary), process that Apple insist upon to use the store they must accept some liability here.
If they haven’t done their job properly, and for some of the stuff that slips through you’d have to assume that they don’t, then they’re skimming money off the top for nothing.
This is one of the problems created in a race to the bottom. Regardless of how much money I have spent if someone has sold me a defective product I deserve a refund, and whether I choose to pursue one or not is my business.
__________________
MP1,1. 30"ACD. 11GB
H2SO4 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 7, 2014, 01:18 AM   #25
Millah
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
I mean really? Are people really sweating .99 purchases this much these days? I'm not saying this isn't a good thing for consumers, but app prices have become so dirt cheap these days that do you really feel that burned spending less than a dollar on an app?

I can just see this being abused. People buying a game for dirt cheap prices, beating it in a few hours, and then demanding a refund. Consumers have already won big time by having a free market for great software at shockingly low prices. Do we really feel entitled to demanding a refund for something that typically costs between 1-3 dollars, when doing a little bit of research before purchasing could have probably helped mitigate buyers remorse?

Now if some app was scamming people, I could understand that. But doesn't Apple already have policies in place that reject apps that don't "function as advertised?"
Millah is offline   0 Reply With Quote

Reply
MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > iOS Blog Discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:58 AM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC