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Old Jan 26, 2006, 05:31 PM   #1
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Mac game companies talk universal binaries, move to Intel on...




Category: Games
Link: Mac game companies talk universal binaries, move to Intel only
Description:: While many of the applications used by most owners of Intel Macs -- Microsoft Office, the iLife suite, Safari and so forth -- either now ship as Universal Binaries or run acceptably with Rosetta, games have proven to be a sticky situation.

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Old Jan 26, 2006, 05:44 PM   #2
Benjamindaines
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This really annoys me because the G5 is a very powerful computer and can play games superbly, all the game makers need to do is check a box on their mac ports and boom you have a Universal Binary. This is just sheer laziness, I also believe that so many people are going to be p'oed about this that the game makers will be FORCED to keep Universal Binaries.
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Old Jan 26, 2006, 05:49 PM   #3
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The day after I return The Sims 2 for my MacBook Pro they announce the update will be free.
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Old Jan 26, 2006, 05:59 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benjamindaines
This really annoys me because the G5 is a very powerful computer and can play games superbly, all the game makers need to do is check a box on their mac ports and boom you have a Universal Binary. This is just sheer laziness, I also believe that so many people are going to be p'oed about this that the game makers will be FORCED to keep Universal Binaries.
maybe for simple apps it's just a click of a box, but most games also have processor and video card specific optimizations.
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Old Jan 26, 2006, 06:00 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhu
maybe for simple apps it's just a click of a box, but most games also have processor and video card specific optimizations.
Yes I realise that but think about it, once the source code is ported to mac you just put it in xcode and let it make the universal binarys for you.
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Old Jan 26, 2006, 06:04 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benjamindaines
Yes I realise that but think about it, once the source code is ported to mac you just put it in xcode and let it make the universal binarys for you.
It seems like if it were that easy, everyone would do it. There must be something else (maybe specific to games?) that causes it to be more diffucult.
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Old Jan 26, 2006, 06:07 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benjamindaines
Yes I realise that but think about it, once the source code is ported to mac you just put it in xcode and let it make the universal binarys for you.
if the program is written entirely in a high-level language, then yes maybe it could just be click on a box. however, other issues such as endianness and assembly language routines would require more programmer attention that a simple check-box cannot help with.
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Old Jan 26, 2006, 06:08 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Underpants
It seems like if it were that easy, everyone would do it. There must be something else (maybe specific to games?) that causes it to be more diffucult.
They don't want to make it run well on PPC because the byte swapping, etc. takes away performance. It would take extra work and they'd rather automatically have the processor take up the slop instead of taking care of performance problems in the bad code.
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Old Jan 26, 2006, 06:16 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benjamindaines
All the game makers need to do is check a box on their mac.
This assumes that all games are developed using Apple's xcode.

If you don't use xcode there is no such box to check.
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Old Jan 26, 2006, 06:30 PM   #10
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As long as World of Warcraft plays well, i'm all good. And guess what? Blizzard has a universal binary version to be released really soon for free! Their little booth at MWSF had it running on an Intel iMac supebly.
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Old Jan 26, 2006, 06:34 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wes Jordan
The day after I return The Sims 2 for my MacBook Pro they announce the update will be free.
That's why I waited for an annoucement like this. I also kept myself from buying a Rev. C iMac G5. Smart, huh?
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Old Jan 26, 2006, 06:34 PM   #12
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I was afraid that this was going to happen... we're going to have a lot of G5 Powermacs with high end videocards that won't be able to play new games since developers aren't going to want to port it to PPC.

I'm not sure how much this will really hurt the developers since a lot of gamers use iMacs, but the older iMacs probably won't be able to run the newer games anyways.

Last edited by ZildjianKX; Jan 26, 2006 at 09:18 PM.
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Old Jan 26, 2006, 06:36 PM   #13
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Photoshop and games cause me to hesitate on purchasing an intel Mac anytime soon. My wife and I use Photoshop a lot (more and more lately) and I have a lot of games that I doubt will ever get a universal code:
Age of Empires II
Jedi Academy
Jedi Outcast
Lego Star Wars
Star Wars Battlefront
Star Wars Galactic Battlegrounds
Civ III
Sim City 4
Warcraft III
Sims 2
Sims (with all expansions)

That's a lot of money on games that likely won't play worth a crap or possibly not at all. Even though these games are getting old, I'd still like to be able to play them in the future. I consider myself a retro-gamer.....I buy games and play them.....and then every few years play my favorites again. I do not want to give up these games or buy a PPC system just to play them a year or two down the road.
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Old Jan 26, 2006, 07:09 PM   #14
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i still think steve jobs should push mac more into games, they have all the processors and computers, now all they need to do is come out with some better games, and spend more time developing instead of raising a processor by 200 mhz
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Old Jan 26, 2006, 08:06 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thechris69
i still think steve jobs should push mac more into games, they have all the processors and computers, now all they need to do is come out with some better games, and spend more time developing instead of raising a processor by 200 mhz
yes, and then they should call it the xmac or macbox or macstation. then they should open their own fast food chain and call it macdonalds or something
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Old Jan 26, 2006, 08:09 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhu
yes, and then they should call it the xmac or macbox or macstation. then they should open their own fast food chain and call it macdonalds or something
He never said anything about making a console... just that Apple should promote the developement of macintosh compatible games.
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Old Jan 26, 2006, 08:13 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by jhu
yes, and then they should call it the xmac or macbox or macstation. then they should open their own fast food chain and call it macdonalds or something
Would the macBook perchance be on the menu at macDonalds?
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Old Jan 26, 2006, 09:57 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benjamindaines
This really annoys me because the G5 is a very powerful computer and can play games superbly, all the game makers need to do is check a box on their mac ports and boom you have a Universal Binary. This is just sheer laziness, I also believe that so many people are going to be p'oed about this that the game makers will be FORCED to keep Universal Binaries.
Did you even read the article? It doesn't say they are going to be making Intel Mac only games in fact when asked they said it would be 3 years or more before they stopped producing Universal Binaries. In computer gaming terms that's a very long time. By that time most G5 machines even top of the line PowerMacs will not be able to run the latest greatest graphic intensive games at a reasonable frame rate.
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Old Jan 26, 2006, 11:28 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eidorian
That's why I waited for an annoucement like this. I also kept myself from buying a Rev. C iMac G5. Smart, huh?
My software purchase strategy for my MacBook will be simple: No shipping UB's or announcements of free UB updates no purchase from me. Hence the reason I won't purchase Office (Microsoft said they are working on it. I don't think they said if it will be free or not.) or anything Adobe.
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Old Jan 26, 2006, 11:36 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiliconAddict
My software purchase strategy for my MacBook will be simple: No shipping UB's or announcements of free UB updates no purchase from me. Hence the reason I won't purchase Office (Microsoft said they are working on it. I don't think they said if it will be free or not.) or anything Adobe.
Yeah, I'm sticking with only buying some Sharware what I REALLY like. I've found that all of them are already universal so I have no problem with them.

Otherwise, I've kept from buying new hardware and expensive PowerPC software. I have a massive education discount on Adobe/Macromedia and Microsoft software. I bought Office 2004 for $9 but I rarely use it now and I think I'll just get NeoOffice/J to hold me over until I get a new iBook, whatever it turns out to be, and get iWork 06/07.

If the MacBook Pro loses $100-200 more and with my $200 off from my education discount, I'll consider it.

Otherwise, I'm happy with my current software and iMac G5.
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Old Jan 27, 2006, 12:15 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benjamindaines
This really annoys me because the G5 is a very powerful computer and can play games superbly, all the game makers need to do is check a box on their mac ports and boom you have a Universal Binary. This is just sheer laziness, I also believe that so many people are going to be p'oed about this that the game makers will be FORCED to keep Universal Binaries.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZildjianKX
I was afraid that this was going to happen... we're going to have a lot of G5 Powermacs with high end videocards that won't be able to play new games since developers aren't going to want to port it to PPC.
While badmouthing Mac game companies without knowing the facts is popular the article is NOT talking about Intel-only games today. it's talking about the future--years down the road in most cases.
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Old Jan 27, 2006, 12:53 AM   #22
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A related article we've got here talks about how Aspyr wants to drop PowerPC support as soon as the end of 2006, while the others are less enthusiastic to put a stake in it.

Hopefully, they'll stop being so greedy and consider that we all want good games. I believe if they stop delivering PPC executables, they'll narrow their market substantially and lose any public favour.
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Old Jan 27, 2006, 02:00 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bousozoku
A related article we've got here talks about how Aspyr wants to drop PowerPC support as soon as the end of 2006, while the others are less enthusiastic to put a stake in it.

Hopefully, they'll stop being so greedy and consider that we all want good games. I believe if they stop delivering PPC executables, they'll narrow their market substantially and lose any public favour.
Contrary to the spirit around here, I don´t believe the surviving Mac game porting houses are run by idiots.
Once the Intel based machines outnumber the PPC based ones(and the gameworthy ones will pretty soon I think),you will naturally see fewer and fewer ports of demanding titles for PPC Macs.
This does make sense in terms of business and is also an inescapable cycle in the gaming market in general.(ie Hardware becomes obsolete)
That being said,I still like my PowerMac G5 very much,but my new Intel IMac is no slouch either.....
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Old Jan 27, 2006, 02:28 AM   #24
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Contrary to the spirit around here, I don´t believe the surviving Mac game porting houses are run by idiots.
Once the Intel based machines outnumber the PPC based ones(and the gameworthy ones will pretty soon I think),you will naturally see fewer and fewer ports of demanding titles for PPC Macs.
This does make sense in terms of business and is also an inescapable cycle in the gaming market in general.(ie Hardware becomes obsolete)
That being said,I still like my PowerMac G5 very much,but my new Intel IMac is no slouch either.....
I don't think that they're run by idiots, either, but Aspyr seems particularly greedy. I'm not saying that they should continue developer ad infinitum but cutting it off at the end of 2006 seems a bit rough, as well as, early.
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Old Jan 27, 2006, 02:51 AM   #25
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I don't think that they're run by idiots, either, but Aspyr seems particularly greedy. I'm not saying that they should continue developer ad infinitum but cutting it off at the end of 2006 seems a bit rough, as well as, early.
I suppose it will depend on each and every title´s hardware requirements.
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