Will QuickDraw survive in 10.5?

brettbolt · Feb 5, 2006, 06:24 PM

Has it been decided yet whether QuickDraw will still be available in 10.5?

After having just completed the transition to Universal Binary, I'm not looking forward to converting thousands of lines of QuickDraw code to Quartz2D!

bousozoku · Feb 5, 2006, 07:03 PM

They've not made any announcements about discontinuing QuickDraw that I've seen so I expect it to continue. However, it might be a good idea to get started on something you should have begun years ago.

Of course, Adobe, etc. should have gotten a start on it, too.

brettbolt · Feb 5, 2006, 07:28 PM

I wish I had the chance to convert it years ago.

Its hard for me to start a 2 month task like this until I know that I absolutely have to.

I can understand Apple not wanting developers to use QuickDraw in new code, but pulling support un-necessarily would break a lot of apps.

bousozoku · Feb 5, 2006, 08:09 PM

Indeed. I'm surprised that Apple didn't create a tool to help convert QuickDraw code to Quartz or OpenGL code. Maybe they did and they're just keeping it to themselves rather than beautify it for the outside world.

I would bet that QuickDraw has only lasted this long because Adobe and others complained that they wouldn't be able to re-write their applications. It wouldn't be surprising that it could be confined to the Classic environment within a couple of years.

Catfish_Man · Feb 5, 2006, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bousozoku

Indeed. I'm surprised that Apple didn't create a tool to help convert QuickDraw code to Quartz or OpenGL code. Maybe they did and they're just keeping it to themselves rather than beautify it for the outside world.

This seems like it would be an almost impossible task. The APIs are not very similar at all...

bousozoku · 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish_Man

This seems like it would be an almost impossible task. The APIs are not very similar at all...

I've done similar work for other machines. I even did some preliminary work on a Direct3D->OpenGL conversion tool.

Catfish_Man · Feb 5, 2006, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bousozoku

I've done similar work for other machines. I was even did some preliminary work on a Direct3D->OpenGL conversion tool.

Interesting. I'd heard about p2c (pascal->C converter), but that at least remains logically identical. Automated conversion between dissimilar APIs sounds like it would cause intense headaches

HiRez · Feb 6, 2006, 12:13 AM

Even if QuickDraw is still supported as an API, I very much doubt it will be supported by Quartz 2D Extreme, and possibly a bunch of other newer Apple technologies will not play nicely with it.

Catfish_Man · Feb 6, 2006, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HiRez

Even if QuickDraw is still supported as an API, I very much doubt it will be supported by Quartz 2D Extreme, and possibly a bunch of other newer Apple technologies will not play nicely with it.

It's documented that using QuickDraw turns off Q2DX for that window.

brettbolt · 02:42 PM

The demise of QuickDraw will affect many Windows developers too! (Apple implemented QuickDraw using the Win32 API in their QuickTime for Windows SDK). This is because QuickTime uses many QuickDraw structures (like GWorlds). I know because I am one of the many "QuickTime for Windows" licensors.

My code (Natural Scene Designer Pro) makes extensive use of GWorlds and CopyBits. I realize that Mac OS X performs double buffering automatically, but I find GWorlds to be a convenient way to store and manipulate bitmaps.

I'll really miss the functionality of CopyBits, for which Apple says there is no direct replacement in Quartz. One thing I give credit to Microsoft for is that they are not making their Win32 bitmap transfer functions like "BitBlt" obsolete.

bousozoku · Feb 6, 2006, 03:53 AM

Are they still using QuickDraw for version 7 of QuickTime? I've seen that major things have been re-written for it but I didn't really pay too much attention.

The hardware device context was always a bit easier for me to use (closer to Digital Research's GEM) than GWorlds but then, I was also using Borland's Object Windows Library, which was amazing.

I always thought that QuickDraw was suffering from Multiple Personality Disorder in the way that it handled (or didn't handle) multiple graphic devices like printers and displays and scanners.

HiRez · Feb 6, 2006, 05:59 AM

Hmm, it would seem odd for them to break QuickTime, I have to think that everything in QuickTime will be still usable. Maybe they're rewriting the QT QD code under the covers and leaving the API the same. Frankly, I think QuickTime could use a complete rewrite as an object-oriented API with Objective-C wrappings, it's quite crufty with all those Pascal strings, FSSpecRefs, QuickDraw and other Mac Toolbox structures, various memory management schemes, etc. It's a mammoth undertaking, but QT is IMO the heart and soul of the Mac, it deserves to be a first-class, modern API.

Thomas Harte · Feb 6, 2006, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bousozoku

They've not made any announcements about discontinuing QuickDraw that I've seen so I expect it to continue.

But they have added this to the QuickDraw Reference page in the developer help files:

Quote:

Important: Quickdraw has been deprecated for deployment targets Mac OS X version 10.4 and later. The replacement API is Quartz. Because of the fundamental differences in the imaging models and design goals between Quickdraw and Quartz, there is no direct correspondence between Quickdraw and Quartz concepts and interfaces. For certain purposes, some Quickdraw functions may still be needed during a transition period; nevertheless, most of them have been deprecated to express the overriding goal of eliminating the use of Quickdraw in the future.

So, start abandoning Quickdraw (whichever capitalisation you use) now if you didn't years ago.

bousozoku · Feb 6, 2006, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Harte

But they have added this to the QuickDraw Reference page in the developer help files:

So, start abandoning Quickdraw (whichever capitalisation you use) now if you didn't years ago.

That's a great catch. Thanks!

brettbolt · Feb 6, 2006, 02:59 PM

"Abandoning" sounds nice and easy, I like it.

Maybe it will work if I just comment out all of the offending 3,950 QuickDraw calls?

brettbolt · 03:07 PM

I just saw this in the "Quartz Programming Guide for QuickDraw Developers" --

Quote:

Note: The QuickDraw API is deprecated in Mac OS X v10.4. That means that Apple no longer plans to develop QuickDraw software or documentation. ...

So it sounds like QD will be around for a while, but there won't be new documentation for it.

bousozoku · Feb 6, 2006, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brettbolt

I just saw this in the "Quartz Programming Guide for QuickDraw Developers" --

So it sounds like QD will be around for a while, but there won't be new documentation for it.

Better get started.

brettbolt · Feb 6, 2006, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bousozoku

Better get started.

Yessir. 3,950 calls to convert. Will do 1 a day. Will take me 11 years.

Fukui · Feb 6, 2006, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brettbolt

I just saw this in the "Quartz Programming Guide for QuickDraw Developers" --

So it sounds like QD will be around for a while, but there won't be new documentation for it.

Perhaps, but once someone scales their UI (coming in 10.5), your app is gonna look... not nice.

Feb 5, 2006, 06:24 PM	#1
brettbolt macrumors member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Rocklin, California	Will QuickDraw survive in 10.5? Has it been decided yet whether QuickDraw will still be available in 10.5? After having just completed the transition to Universal Binary, I'm not looking forward to converting thousands of lines of QuickDraw code to Quartz2D! __________________ 20" iMac Core Duo 2GHz, 866 MHz Dual G4 -- Author of Natural Scene Designer Pro -- Mac Software Developer since 1992
	0

Feb 5, 2006, 07:28 PM	#3
brettbolt Thread Starter macrumors member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Rocklin, California	I wish I had the chance to convert it years ago. Its hard for me to start a 2 month task like this until I know that I absolutely have to. I can understand Apple not wanting developers to use QuickDraw in new code, but pulling support un-necessarily would break a lot of apps. __________________ 20" iMac Core Duo 2GHz, 866 MHz Dual G4 -- Author of Natural Scene Designer Pro -- Mac Software Developer since 1992
	0

Feb 6, 2006, 12:13 AM	#8
HiRez macrumors 68040 Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Western US	Even if QuickDraw is still supported as an API, I very much doubt it will be supported by Quartz 2D Extreme, and possibly a bunch of other newer Apple technologies will not play nicely with it. __________________ Go outside, the graphics are amazing!
	0

Feb 6, 2006, 03:29 AM	#10
brettbolt Thread Starter macrumors member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Rocklin, California	The demise of QuickDraw will affect many Windows developers too! (Apple implemented QuickDraw using the Win32 API in their QuickTime for Windows SDK). This is because QuickTime uses many QuickDraw structures (like GWorlds). I know because I am one of the many "QuickTime for Windows" licensors. My code (Natural Scene Designer Pro) makes extensive use of GWorlds and CopyBits. I realize that Mac OS X performs double buffering automatically, but I find GWorlds to be a convenient way to store and manipulate bitmaps. I'll really miss the functionality of CopyBits, for which Apple says there is no direct replacement in Quartz. One thing I give credit to Microsoft for is that they are not making their Win32 bitmap transfer functions like "BitBlt" obsolete. __________________ 20" iMac Core Duo 2GHz, 866 MHz Dual G4 -- Author of Natural Scene Designer Pro -- Mac Software Developer since 1992 Last edited by brettbolt; Feb 6, 2006 at 02:42 PM.
	0

Feb 6, 2006, 05:59 AM	#12
HiRez macrumors 68040 Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Western US	Hmm, it would seem odd for them to break QuickTime, I have to think that everything in QuickTime will be still usable. Maybe they're rewriting the QT QD code under the covers and leaving the API the same. Frankly, I think QuickTime could use a complete rewrite as an object-oriented API with Objective-C wrappings, it's quite crufty with all those Pascal strings, FSSpecRefs, QuickDraw and other Mac Toolbox structures, various memory management schemes, etc. It's a mammoth undertaking, but QT is IMO the heart and soul of the Mac, it deserves to be a first-class, modern API. __________________ Go outside, the graphics are amazing!
	0

Feb 5, 2006, 07:03 PM	#2
bousozoku Retired (Moderator emeritus) Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Gone but not forgotten.	They've not made any announcements about discontinuing QuickDraw that I've seen so I expect it to continue. However, it might be a good idea to get started on something you should have begun years ago. Of course, Adobe, etc. should have gotten a start on it, too.
	0

Feb 5, 2006, 08:09 PM	#4
bousozoku Retired (Moderator emeritus) Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Gone but not forgotten.	Indeed. I'm surprised that Apple didn't create a tool to help convert QuickDraw code to Quartz or OpenGL code. Maybe they did and they're just keeping it to themselves rather than beautify it for the outside world. I would bet that QuickDraw has only lasted this long because Adobe and others complained that they wouldn't be able to re-write their applications. It wouldn't be surprising that it could be confined to the Classic environment within a couple of years.
	0

Feb 6, 2006, 03:53 AM	#11
bousozoku Retired (Moderator emeritus) Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Gone but not forgotten.	Are they still using QuickDraw for version 7 of QuickTime? I've seen that major things have been re-written for it but I didn't really pay too much attention. The hardware device context was always a bit easier for me to use (closer to Digital Research's GEM) than GWorlds but then, I was also using Borland's Object Windows Library, which was amazing. I always thought that QuickDraw was suffering from Multiple Personality Disorder in the way that it handled (or didn't handle) multiple graphic devices like printers and displays and scanners.
	0

Feb 6, 2006, 02:59 PM	#15
brettbolt Thread Starter macrumors member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Rocklin, California	"Abandoning" sounds nice and easy, I like it. Maybe it will work if I just comment out all of the offending 3,950 QuickDraw calls? __________________ 20" iMac Core Duo 2GHz, 866 MHz Dual G4 -- Author of Natural Scene Designer Pro -- Mac Software Developer since 1992
	0


MacRumors Forums > Apple Systems and Services > Programming > Mac Programming

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Resolved: iTunes 10.5 Dev Beta for Windows - Problems?	NightFox	Mac Applications and Mac App Store	19	Nov 7, 2011 12:36 PM
Can Mac OS 10.5 disc repair a 10.4 installation (PowerPC))	Chadder	Mac OS X	3	Jun 4, 2011 09:46 PM
10.5 Install mess USB, PPC vs Intel, override installer help?	spacepower7	PowerPC Macs	12	Nov 15, 2010 05:55 PM
How to upgrade from 10.4 to 10.5	phantasms	Mac OS X	2	Nov 3, 2010 04:28 PM
Has the Diablo II issue been resolved.... or will it be in 10.5.5?	syavno	Mac and PC Games	11	Sep 4, 2008 09:23 AM