Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Steve Jobs' Testimony Expected to Play Major Role in iPod Antitrust Lawsuit

MacRumors

MacRumors

macrumors bot
Original poster
Apr 12, 2001
63,481
30,718



Apple this week is scheduled to appear in court and face accusations that it deliberately crippled competing music services and players in an iPod class action lawsuit from 2005, reports The New York Times. The trial will feature testimony from Steve Jobs, whose emails and a videotaped deposition taken before his death will play an important part in the plaintiffs' case.

ipod-original.jpg
The complaint focuses on Apple's older iPod models, which only supported music purchased on iTunes and songs downloaded from CDs. Also being disputed is Apple's FairPlay system of encoding purchased music, which limited music playback to the iPod and not competing MP3 players. In the suit, consumers claim Apple violated antitrust law by deliberately limiting interoperability with competitors, while exclusively promoting its products and services.

The email testimony is expected to paint Steve Jobs as an aggressive businessman who worked hard to ensure the success of the iPod and iTunes. This success often came at the expense of smaller competitors, which were not allowed to connect to Apple's popular iPod ecosystem. In one already released email, Jobs addresses Apple's lack of support for the-then upcoming MusicMatch music store.
"We need to make sure that when Music Match launches their download music store they cannot use iPod," he wrote. "Is this going to be an issue?"
Click to expand...
Part of the case also involves Apple's interactions with RealNetworks, which devised a workaround in 2004 that allowed content from its music store to be played on the iPod. In an angry statement released to the media, Apple accused RealNetworks of hacking the iPod and threatened to disable this functionality in future iPod software updates.

To counteract Jobs' testimony, Apple is expected to argue that updates to the iPod and iTunes were designed to improve the platform for the consumer and not cripple competing devices. The company also likely will point out that the price of the iPod has gone down over the years, despite Apple's alleged monopolistic behavior.

Article Link: Steve Jobs' Testimony Expected to Play Major Role in iPod Antitrust Lawsuit
 
Article Link
https://www.macrumors.com/2014/12/01/steve-jobs-testimony-ipod-lawsuit/
H

H2SO4

macrumors 603
Nov 4, 2008
5,651
6,937
On the face of it I can’t see a problem with this, (I’m ready to be hung for that comment).
I can believe that this dirty tricks thing was carried out by Apple but at the same time I say to myself, it only supported certain formats, so what?
As long as I knew this at the time of purchase it’s up to me to decide if I buy or not.
 
Iconoclysm

Iconoclysm

macrumors 68040
May 13, 2010
3,121
2,545
Washington, DC
How is this so different from Sony with minidiscs? Sony took an already viable music container (magnetic media) and put it in a format that only worked with Sony devices or those licensed to use it. Some people, including myself, would not buy an iPod or use iTunes because it was too proprietary - those other MP3 manufacturers thrived off of that weakness, now they want to turn around and sue over its strengths.
 
Fzang

Fzang

macrumors 65816
Jun 15, 2013
1,315
1,081
Every company would do this, where it not for all those pesky consumer protection laws.
 
Iconoclysm

Iconoclysm

macrumors 68040
May 13, 2010
3,121
2,545
Washington, DC
H2SO4 said:
On the face of it I can’t see a problem with this, (I’m ready to be hung for that comment).
I can believe that this dirty tricks thing was carried out by Apple but at the same time I say to myself, it only supported certain formats, so what?
As long as I knew this at the time of purchase it’s up to me to decide if I buy or not.
Click to expand...

How are these dirty tricks?
 
M

mercuryjones

macrumors 6502a
May 31, 2005
786
0
College Station, TX
How dare Apple promote their own service and devices over other companies services and devices! /s
That said, I feel that all companies from here on out should only promote other companies devices and not their own. Ford should only promote Chevy vehicles. Coke should only promote Pepsi products. Presidential candidates should only endorse the opposing presidential candidates.
I mean, if we want to be fair, we might as well make it fair across the board, right?
 
sualpine

sualpine

macrumors 6502
May 13, 2013
497
513
MacRumors said:
In the suit, consumers claim Apple violated antitrust law by deliberately limiting interoperability with competitors, while exclusively promoting its products and services.
Click to expand...

Ah great! If they win, I can't wait to sue Honda because I can't put my tC engine into a Civic! Make these suckers pay!
 
teslo

teslo

macrumors 6502a
Jun 9, 2014
929
599
i just unsuccessfully tried to open a powerpoint on my ti-85 calculator - and it won't charge with my iPhone lightning cable. time to get some good lawyers, ti...
 
IJ Reilly

IJ Reilly

macrumors P6
Jul 16, 2002
17,909
1,496
Palookaville
To win an antitrust claim, it is not enough to show that Apple wanted to beat their competitors, or even that they played hardball. The plaintiffs have to prove (1) that Apple held market power in a defined market; and (2) that they abused that power to restrain competition.

BTW, "market power" is not another way of saying "monopoly." It's a defined term of art in antitrust law.
 
Rogifan

Rogifan

macrumors Penryn
Nov 14, 2011
24,124
31,156
Did Apple ever claim or imply that music not ripped from CDs or purchased via iTunes could be played on an iPod? If not than I think this lawsuit is bogus. If a lawsuit like this are successful what's to stop someone from suing Apple because they can't install apps outside of the App Store on their iOS devices (without jailbreaking)?
 
J

JeffDM

macrumors 6502a
Sep 16, 2006
709
10
Iconoclysm said:
How is this so different from Sony with minidiscs? Sony took an already viable music container (magnetic media) and put it in a format that only worked with Sony devices or those licensed to use it. Some people, including myself, would not buy an iPod or use iTunes because it was too proprietary - those other MP3 manufacturers thrived off of that weakness, now they want to turn around and sue over its strengths.
Click to expand...

Minidisk is an optical format, not magnetic. It was also half the linear size of a CD, making it much more portable.

Minidisc was licensed out to other manufacturers.

iPod could play MP3 without issue and that's what I fed it at first. It could play unencrypted AAC too, that wasn't Apple proprietary, and it was available for others to use. iTunes could rip CDs with ease too. AAC is an ISO standard (MP3 is also an ISO standard), but you need to pay for a license to legally play MP3 or AAC format. I don't think any of those license fees go to Apple, and you don't need to go through Apple to pay those fees.
 
Last edited:
A

AppleDude

macrumors member
Jun 14, 2006
51
9
Exclusively Promoting Its Own Products

"...while exclusively promoting its products and services."

What kind of a company exclusively promotes its products. Very disappointing :rolleyes:
 
KdParker

KdParker

macrumors 601
Oct 1, 2010
4,793
998
Everywhere
sualpine said:
Ah great! If they win, I can't wait to sue Honda because I can't put my tC engine into a Civic! Make these suckers pay!
Click to expand...

This is more like having a gas nozzel that will only fit you Civic, so you can only get gas from flying J stations and no where else.

I think that would be unfair to the consumers whether you owned a Civic or not.
 
Small White Car

Small White Car

macrumors G4
Aug 29, 2006
10,966
1,463
Washington DC
BS

It's the music labels that insisted on DRM. Apple ditched it as soon as they could.

I understand that the lawsuit is about the idea that the iPod didn't support multiple DRM formats but that was logistically impossible. Apple's deal with the labels allowed iTunes sales only as long as FairPlay wasn't hacked. Apple had to work non-stop to stay ahead of attempts to crack it.

There is no way that Apple could open up their hardware to multiple companies using multiple formats and expect to maintain the same level of security. (Security that was, remember, required by the music labels in exchange for the iTunes music store to exist.)

These people wanted a miracle and are crying because Apple couldn't pull it off. It wasn't possible.

EDIT: A great Gruber article from 2006 saying just about the same thing. His argument is a little different but the conclusion is the same:

http://daringfireball.net/2006/06/drm_interoperability
 
IJ Reilly

IJ Reilly

macrumors P6
Jul 16, 2002
17,909
1,496
Palookaville
KdParker said:
This is more like having a gas nozzel that will only fit you Civic, so you can only get gas from flying J stations and no where else.

I think that would be unfair to the consumers whether you owned a Civic or not.
Click to expand...

More to the point, it would be a ridiculous and certainly unsuccessful strategy for Honda unless they sold enough Civics to force gas stations to adopt their nozzle. See, market power.
 
Small White Car

Small White Car

macrumors G4
Aug 29, 2006
10,966
1,463
Washington DC
KdParker said:
This is more like having a gas nozzel that will only fit you Civic, so you can only get gas from flying J stations and no where else.

I think that would be unfair to the consumers whether you owned a Civic or not.
Click to expand...

Your analogy only works in a world where CD ripping didn't exist.

This is like a Civic that works at all regular gas stations AND Honda-only stations too.
 
4jasontv

4jasontv

Suspended
Jul 31, 2011
6,272
7,548
Yes but can a crappy analogy I get from a macrumors forum be used anywhere else?
 
nagromme

nagromme

macrumors G5
May 2, 2002
12,546
1,196
Does that mean iTunes/iPod would refuse standard MP3 files? It could tell where they came from originally and block them? That would be big news to me, and worth a lawsuit or two if Apple claimed MP3 compatibility and then sneakily didn't deliver.

But I'm guessing that's not really what this means. If other companies used DRM and Apple didn't support their DRM, I have no problem with that. I DO have a problem with the record labels making Apple AND others use DRM (at first), but I see no obligation for Apple to program anything special for someone else's DRM.

(I don't support Steve Jobs being a jerk to the competition--but as long as it doesn't cross an ethical line, I guess that's business.)
 
O

odditie

macrumors 6502
Jan 6, 2004
290
183
Doesn't Sony and Microsoft do the same thing then with their games for the Playstation 4 and X Box? They require proprietary files for generic games (the games end up being ported to several systems, music files get converted to multiple file types with multiple DRMs) that are only able to run on their systems.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom