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Old Mar 6, 2006, 04:32 PM   #1
Daedalus256
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G3 acting up. Plus! The network of horror! Read on!

So today I decide that I'll be nice and go into the print shop where my mom works. Her and our friend and this other kid run a small print shop in Youngstown, Ohio. They do pretty good business but their g3 PowerMac was getting a little behind the times, what with running OS 8.6 and all. So I volunteer to install OSX Panther on it, little did I know this would be the biggest networking/computer job I've ever had.

I got there around maybe 11:30 and didn't end up leaving until 3:00 only because I HAD to leave. Ok so here's what went on

1. They had about 3GB of art files that needed to be backed up to some external source. No problem right? I brought my 15" Powerbook so I ran a CAT5 between the G3 and the Pbook. Both of the machines fail to recognize the other. I figure this has something to do with the G3 running OS 8.6. Alright no problem, maybe it can detect other computers on the network, right? Nope. I spent a TON of time trying to figure out ways to get these files off of the drive and somewhere else. It wouldn't recognize flash drives, it would freeze trying to burn CDs and for some reason, refused to connect to the internet when the damn thing was plugged directly into the cable modem!

2. I decide that ok hey, they only have this small 4 port hub. Two of the cat5 cables running to giant Ricoh printers, one color and one b/w. So maybe the hub is the problem. I go out and (with their money of course) grab a 5 port linksys to hook into the 4 port, giving them a ton more space for stuff. I hook up the hub and get internet access on the windows PC that does most the editing and well, that's about all I get. Access to the printers is now dead and the G3 STILL HAS NOTHING GOING ON.

3. I notice that the network is setup really strangely. The one part that really got me was that the network, aside from the main WinPC, ran from the network hub to the windows PC. From the windows PC, a second cat5 cable was hooked into the modem via a PCI Ethernet card. Now this doesn't seem right...at all. But strangely enough if I try to hook both printers, and all the machines into a correct network (Modem to Hub, Hub to all machines) It can't connect to either of the main printers and the G3 Still has no internet access.

I've taken the time to supply an incredible photoshop of this network...


So my questions are:

1. How the hell does this damn network work?
2. Why can't the G3 get ANYTHING? I've considered that maybe the ethernet port on the logic board went but I guess that the thing is still able to connect to the color printer and print things using that same ethernet port.

Is there something I'm missing? Or is this entire network just so bizarre a rigged that it's actually impossible to fix it unless you completely rewired and reconfigured everything?
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Old Mar 7, 2006, 06:47 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedalus256
...
So my questions are:

1. How the hell does this damn network work?
2. Why can't the G3 get ANYTHING? I've considered that maybe the ethernet port on the logic board went but I guess that the thing is still able to connect to the color printer and print things using that same ethernet port.

Is there something I'm missing? Or is this entire network just so bizarre a rigged that it's actually impossible to fix it unless you completely rewired and reconfigured everything?
Well, what is the status of the IPs? Is everything static, or what? I'm assuming static since you've said there is a hub, not a router. If it has a static IP addresses that explains why you connect to it via your Powerbook (you need to setup your PB correctly.)

I'm trying to make sense of your picture.. I've drawn it again (more clearly) in OmniGraffle. This diagram correct? If it is, read on...

The Windows box is setup fine, it's just acting like a gateway or "firewall" (hardly as long as it's running Windows O.S.) for the internet, and the setup is quite common, to have two ethernet ports on a machine, one "red" & one "green" (smoothwall terminology).

Why your new switch doesn't work.. doesn't quite make any sense. Can you provide us with more information about that, e.g. pinging from the windows machine, how the printers are setup, etc.

I suspect that the G3 can't connect to the network properly because of a protocol (Appletalk or TCP/ip) being setup incorrectly. If you wanted to jump the gun a bit, and just backup all the files from the G3 and install Panther on it, you could always boot in target mode and get the files off it from the Powerbook, but you'll need a firewire port (Not sure if the G3 has this.. or if you have the right cable) See: How to use FireWire target disk mode Again, the support is unknown for me for the G3.

Well, get back to us with more info. I'll be subscribing to this thread to see if any updates come along from you.

Cheers,

-lieb39
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Old Mar 7, 2006, 07:15 AM   #3
SpaceMagic
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Sorry, that has to be the best photoshop work i've seen in ages. Heheeee
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Old Mar 7, 2006, 07:43 AM   #4
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Odds are the Win machine is not configured correctly to pass the data and even if it was I would never EVER use a Windows box as a firewall. If you really want to use a PC for a firewall go to smoothwall.org . Its an awsome free Linux firewall.

OR

Get that Windows machine out of there and go out and get a firewall / router . They usually come with 4 ports so that should cover you.

Either way get that Windows machine out of the loop and if it is not used for anything else, summarily give it the heave ho.

You really want it to be:

Internet --> Firewall --> Hub/Switch --> Printers and computers plug in to the hub or switch

OR

Internet --> Firewall --> Printers and computers plug into the firewall which has a built in switch

The setup and wiring looks fine. Just get that Windows machine out of there.
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Old Mar 7, 2006, 07:54 AM   #5
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Well, here's my theory why the internet comes into the PC and then out to the hub...

If you just had it come from the modem to the hub, the hub isn't a router, so it would pull all different external IPs and you would get charged for X number of internet accounts. A router takes 1 external IP and breaks it down assigning internal IPs. In your case, the PC is running the DHCP server and assigning the internal IP addresses.

What you should probably do is delete all these internet sharing junk from the PC, ditch the hub, get a router (unless you already did) and just go modem-->internet port on router. Then everything else into the other 4 ports. If 4 isn't enough, then hook the hub into one of the PC ports on the router. The router shouldn't be connected to the hub, it should be the other way around.

To back up the G3...you could just install Panther on a different HD, then, boot from the Panther drive and copy the files over from the 8.6 internal HD.
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Old Mar 7, 2006, 01:51 PM   #6
Daedalus256
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Wow, dude you spent too much time on that redo of my little setup. Heh

At any rate it looks like the G3 is using AppleTalk, not TCP/IP. Infact, up until a few years ago, they apparently used MacLinkPlus to get internet access for the G3. I guess upgrading to Windows 2000 borked that.

Also, yes it looks like the WinPC is being used as a sort of router. I guess up until a few years ago the cable company assigned a MAC address to a computer or router specified on the network instead of it just being modem->router->PCs. So I'm going to look into that.
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