Apple Care not really worth it in Europe?

chad.petree · Feb 24, 2015

How long is apple obliged to repair or replace my device if it ist malfunctioning? I already have to years with my macbook pro retina and the first year I had it replaced ( extremely yellow screen) and then some months later I had the screen replaced because it was flickering, and then asked immediately for a replacement because the new screen was also extremely yellow

don't get first generation apple products kids

I'm planning on upgrading to skylake when the new macbooks with skylake get released ( getting a 250 SSD was a BIG mistake! ) , so the question is , what does Apple care really covers? I think in Europe (I live in Germany) apple is bliged by law to fix your device within 2 years of purchase date, or is it only one? I usually don't keep my computers longer than 3 years, so you think is worth to get Apple care? A friend told me that they don't cover the full costs of the reparation, say for example I drop the laptop and the screen breaks, instead they cover a % of the reparation and the reparation times are shorter, is he for real or just making stuff up?

Samuelsan2001 · Feb 24, 2015

2 years for europe

chad.petree said:
How long is apple obliged to repair or replace my device if it ist malfunctioning? I already have to years with my macbook pro retina and the first year I had it replaced ( extremely yellow screen) and then some months later I had the screen replaced because it was flickering, and then asked immediately for a replacement because the new screen was also extremely yellow don't get first generation apple products kids

I'm planning on upgrading to skylake when the new macbooks with skylake get released ( getting a 250 SSD was a BIG mistake! ) , so the question is , what does Apple care really covers? I think in Europe (I live in Germany) apple is bliged by law to fix your device within 2 years of purchase date, or is it only one? I usually don't keep my computers longer than 3 years, so you think is worth to get Apple care? A friend told me that they don't cover the full costs of the reparation, say for example I drop the laptop and the screen breaks, instead they cover a % of the reparation and the reparation times are shorter, is he for real or just making stuff up?

2 years for europe under european law. But individual countries often have their own consumer laws it's 5 years in the UK (apple hate that).

Apple care does not cover accidental damage at all. To be honest you are better off just insuring it or taking a third party warranty that also covers accidental damage.

Steve121178 · Feb 24, 2015

I also live in Europe and I have bought Apple Care for everything, my MacBook Pro, my iMac, my iPhone & my iPad. I know that if something goes wrong I will get dealt with quickly anywhere in the world. If your Mac develops a fault and you have no Apple Care then Apple won't make it too easy to get it fixed and will probably have to send the machine away for 'x' amount of weeks. I don't have time for that, Apple Care gives me the reassurance that if something goes wrong, it gets fixed.

And when I am spending £1500-£1700 on a computer, why quibble over Apple Care which costs £150-£200, depending on machine type? For me it's an essential policy that I hope I never have to use, but is there if I need it.

----------

Also, with Apple Care you tend to get looked after better when it comes to support and Apple tend to offer a great deal of leniency with issues to customers with Apple Care and will be far more inclined to offer a new-for-old replacement under the right circumstances.

But each to their own. If you are happy with the standard warranty and have no serious expectations on a fast turnaround in the event of a fault, then don't buy Apple Care.

leman · Feb 24, 2015

Steve121178 said:
If your Mac develops a fault and you have no Apple Care then Apple won't make it too easy to get it fixed and will probably have to send the machine away for 'x' amount of weeks. I don't have time for that, Apple Care gives me the reassurance that if something goes wrong, it gets fixed.

This is not correct. Apple Care does not get you premium treatment, only longer coverage. The time investment and service of quality are the same, no matter whether you have Apple Care or not.

Meister · Feb 24, 2015

Let's clarify the EU 2 year warranty myth:

Up to 6 months after purchase they have to repair or replace your Mac.
For reclamations after that time period you have to prove that the defect was already present at purchase, which is close to impossible to do. So effectively you get 6 months.

:apple:

care on the other hand gives you unconditional warranty for 36 months.

vbedia · Feb 24, 2015

Meister said:
Let's clarify the EU 2 year warranty myth:

Up to 6 months after purchase they have to repair or replace your Mac.
For reclamations after that time period you have to prove that the defect was already present at purchase, which is close to impossible to do. So effectively you get 6 months.

care on the other hand gives you unconditional warranty for 36 months.

It is not exactly as you say. My sister bought a iPhone 5 back in December 2012 last summer it shut down randomly and the battery drained out very fast after a full charge. So she took the iPhone back to the store with her receipt of over one year and half old and Apple took care of the rest.

She was told if the Iphone couldn't be repaired she would be given an new one. Charges for this kind of fixing are about $200.

The thing is if there is no physical evidence of misuse, damage or they cannot demonstrate it was user fault i.e. (sensors went off after water exposure, etc) they are obliged by law to repair or give you a new one.

This was a fact not a myth, I have seen it through my sister experience.

Greg1fraser · Feb 24, 2015

I had my 13inch Rmbp screen replaced after 3 years and new top case all out of warranty, screen had developed ghosting and top case was shorting out the power

Scepticalscribe · Feb 24, 2015

Steve121178 said:
I also live in Europe and I have bought Apple Care for everything, my MacBook Pro, my iMac, my iPhone & my iPad. I know that if something goes wrong I will get dealt with quickly anywhere in the world. If your Mac develops a fault and you have no Apple Care then Apple won't make it too easy to get it fixed and will probably have to send the machine away for 'x' amount of weeks. I don't have time for that, Apple Care gives me the reassurance that if something goes wrong, it gets fixed.

And when I am spending £1500-£1700 on a computer, why quibble over Apple Care which costs £150-£200, depending on machine type? For me it's an essential policy that I hope I never have to use, but is there if I need it.

----------

Also, with Apple Care you tend to get looked after better when it comes to support and Apple tend to offer a great deal of leniency with issues to customers with Apple Care and will be far more inclined to offer a new-for-old replacement under the right circumstances.

But each to their own. If you are happy with the standard warranty and have no serious expectations on a fast turnaround in the event of a fault, then don't buy Apple Care.

This is exactly my position, too.

If you intend spending not far off 2,000 on a laptop (and my MBA is a maxed out CTO, which, with Office for Mac and Applecare would not leave much change from 2,000) it makes sense, to my mind, to get Applecare.

I have always had Applecare, on every Apple I have ever bought. Moreover, I have had cause to use it, too, even into the third year (the HDD drive failed on my 2008 MBP in its third year and was immediately replaced without a whimper by Apple); in my MBAs, the keyboard, and Magsafe have been replaced under Applecare.

Personally, when I buy a computer, my own personal buying cycle is governed not by technological advances, but by Applecare - I will always have sold it, or parted with it, before Applecare expires.

It is not just that Applecare gives you peace of mind for three years (as a student, I heard far too many horror stories where computers belonging to fellow students had died after 14 months - after the original warranty had expired - leaving them with little recourse but to buy a new computer), it is also that, if you wish to sell it on, it will give a potential purchaser some peace of mind, too.

Meister · Feb 24, 2015

vbedia said:
It is not exactly as you say. My sister bought a iPhone 5 back in December 2012 last summer it shut down randomly and the battery drained out very fast after a full charge. So she took the iPhone back to the store with her receipt of over one year and half old and Apple took care of the rest.

She was told if the Iphone couldn't be repaired she would be given an new one. Charges for this kind of fixing are about $200.

The thing is if there is no physical evidence of misuse, damage or they cannot demonstrate it was user fault i.e. (sensors went off after water exposure, etc) they are obliged by law to repair or give you a new one.

This was a fact not a myth, I have seen it through my sister experience.

Your sisters experience doesn't prove anything.
A merchant is free to replace your device out of courtesy and especially :apple:

is famous for doing this with cheap devices like an Iphone. For example recently apple replaced my magic trackpad, without any receipt that way.

The legal situation however is a totally different matter.
Theoratically you have a 2 year warranty, except parts and devices which are expected to loose functionality (e.g. Lightbulbs). Within the first 6 months the seller has to prove that the customer caused the defect, otherwise he needs to repair or replace the merchandise. After 6 months however the burden of prove reverses onto the customer.

vbedia · Feb 24, 2015

Meister said:
Your sisters experience doesn't prove anything.

What proves little or nothing is talking with not actually knowledge or experience of what one is talking about, not disrespect but simply talking for what you might have heard or what you might believe as to how the system works in EU fell short of reality. Many people here; living in Europe can prove you wrong easily by telling their experiences not just with Apple, but with any other retailer too.

Meister said:
merchant is free to replace your device out of courtesy and especially is famous for doing this with cheap devices like an Iphone. For example recently apple replaced my magic trackpad, without any receipt that way.

A merchant can do whatever they want with their products, Samsung was giving away Galaxys in Australia on launch's day, but that's not the point here.

Meister said:
legal situation however is a totally different matter.
Theoratically you have a 2 year warranty, except parts and devices which are expected to loose functionality (e.g. Lightbulbs). Within the first 6 months the seller has to prove that the customer caused the defect, otherwise he needs to repair or replace the merchandise. After 6 months however the burden of prove reverses onto the customer.

As I said before, I think I was very clear, if a device fails with no wrongdoing by the user the manufacturer has to replace it or give you a new one. I doesn't matter if it is day one after your purchase or day 720 after it. This doesn't apply to Apple only, but all of them making business in EU.

Meister · Feb 24, 2015

q

vbedia said:
As I said before, I think I was very clear, if a device fails with no wrongdoing by the user the manufacturer has to replace it or give you a new one. I doesn't matter if it is day one after your purchase or day 720 after it. This doesn't apply to Apple only, but all of them making business in EU.

I live in Germany and what you are describing is not the legal situation.
At least in Germany the legal situation is precisely how I described it.

Within six months from receipt of the goods, you just need to show the trader that they are faulty or not as advertised. But, after six months in most EU countries you also need to prove yourself that the defect already existed on receipt of the goods, for example, by showing that the defect is due to the poor quality of materials used.

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/shopping/shopping-abroad/guarantees/index_en.htm

Good luck proving "poor quality of materials used". The fact that some retailers exchange products even after the 6 months limit is not part of the law, but their courtesy.

Additonal Sources:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:31999L0044:DE:HTML

Ulenspiegel · Feb 24, 2015

The usual legal practice within the EU is as Meister described it.
Nevertheless, it must be stated that it depends a LOT on the seller/company/shop and the so called consumer protection "traditions" in the country.
In Finland for example the bigger chains would ask no questions if you bring back the good. They straight at the beginning offer to replace it or refunding. On the other hand my experience was that in smaller shops you have to have a fight proving your right. It happened with my Nikon that after 3 days it would not read the memory card. The seller simply wanted to do nothing. I contacted Nikon Europe with a complaint and after a week was sent a new device.
So cases differ.

cairene2011 · Feb 24, 2015

I concur with the other European voices in this thread.

In Austria the myth/tradition of the 2 year warranty goes as far as to people viewing this gesture of good will (the magical word is "Kulanz") from a seller as a legal obligation and would tear the poor sales assistant a new one if they dared to refuse. We still have quite a lot of small independent retailers and combined with sparsely populated areas, a bad reputation from one unhappy customer can affect a big chunk of a shop's customer base. Let alone the fact that the unhappy customer, who was denied "warranty", will take his business to the competitor that will pull him in by simply offering longer product support, which is a much cheaper strategy than lower prices (since not every sold product will require a repair/replacement). These are the reasons why customers will generally be successful in claiming that longer "warranty" of 2 years or more, but it is a misconception to assume it is anything more than an arbitrary gesture of good will by the seller once that initial period of 6 months or so has passed.

There is no Apple Store in Austria, but I would think that even there the 2 years talk would be pretty useless in Apple's cooperate context, where no one gives 2 cents about one customer's threat of taking their business elsewhere or leaving a bad review. That being said, I do know from my own experience that Apple are quite helpful in terms of product support, but that's their own choice and strategy, not dictated by law.

I wouldn't bank on any of this when it comes to something as vital as my computer. Either insure it privately or get Apple Care, but anything else seems a bit risky.

steve62388 · Feb 24, 2015

Meister said:
Let's clarify the EU 2 year warranty myth:

Up to 6 months after purchase they have to repair or replace your Mac.
For reclamations after that time period you have to prove that the defect was already present at purchase, which is close to impossible to do. So effectively you get 6 months.

care on the other hand gives you unconditional warranty for 36 months.

Are you sure about this? I have just read the legislation but it's really late and I might have missed it, so can you please reference it?

Legislation is posted here http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:1999:171:0012:0016:EN

DF

It does state:-

Unless proved otherwise, any lack of conformity which becomes apparent within six months of delivery of the goods shall be presumed to have existed at the time of delivery unless this presumption is incompatible with the nature of the goods or the nature of the lack of conformity.

But it does not have any text that I see where the onus is on the consumer to prove a fault was already present at purchase after a period of six months. This is an important distinction.

This site also says the same thing:-

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-1677034/Two-year-warranty-EU-law.html

chad.petree · Feb 24, 2015

Well my screen went bad after more than 6 months an apple never said anything about the warranty being expired, they just implied I was being picky and that they couldn't see the flickering I was talking about, which of course made me went berserk and it worked because they repaired my macbook pro retina

greenmeanie · Feb 25, 2015

It isn't worth it anywhere.
If Apple products are so darn good we shouldn't have to pay extra for warranties.

cambookpro · Feb 25, 2015

Meister said:
Let's clarify the EU 2 year warranty myth:

Up to 6 months after purchase they have to repair or replace your Mac.
For reclamations after that time period you have to prove that the defect was already present at purchase, which is close to impossible to do. So effectively you get 6 months.

care on the other hand gives you unconditional warranty for 36 months.

It doesn't work this way in practice though.

I've had a phone, MacBook and Thunderbolt Display all replaced a year or two after AppleCare had expired. No quibbles, and this was at three different Apple Stores. They have a specific section on their iPads for an EU Warranty Claim.

Apple never require you to 'prove' anything. Sure, it's what the law might say, but it's not how they implement it.

For a UK citizen at least, AppleCare is a waste of money, especially for iOS devices. AC+ essentially requires you to smash your screen or drop it in the bath for it to be worth it.

Ulenspiegel · Feb 25, 2015

cambookpro said:
It doesn't work this way in practice though.

I've had a phone, MacBook and Thunderbolt Display all replaced a year or two after AppleCare had expired. No quibbles, and this was at three different Apple Stores. They have a specific section on their iPads for an EU Warranty Claim.

Apple never require you to 'prove' anything. Sure, it's what the law might say, but it's not how they implement it.

For a UK citizen at least, AppleCare is a waste of money, especially for iOS devices. AC+ essentially requires you to smash your screen or drop it in the bath for it to be worth it.

Not all countries have Apple store(s) (only 16). And that makes a difference in case of Apple products and guarantee.

cambookpro · Feb 25, 2015

Ulenspiegel said:
Not all countries have Apple store(s) (only 16). And that makes a difference in case of Apple products and guarantee.

That is very true. Where I live, I'm lucky enough to have about 5 Apple Stores within an hour's journey. Directly going to Apple is definitely better, I've never really had bad service there, whereas AASPs have been awful to deal with (though this was 2006ish).

steve62388 · Feb 25, 2015

Meister said:
Let's clarify the EU 2 year warranty myth:

Up to 6 months after purchase they have to repair or replace your Mac.
For reclamations after that time period you have to prove that the defect was already present at purchase, which is close to impossible to do. So effectively you get 6 months.

care on the other hand gives you unconditional warranty for 36 months.

I have read the legislation again, and nowhere does it state that the consumer has to prove the fault existed at time of purchase after six months. So unless you are able to point it out to me I have to say you're wrong.

It might be worth changing the advice you're giving out as you used some pretty strongly worded language that at this stage looks to be incorrect.

Meister · Feb 25, 2015

steve23094 said:
I have read the legislation again, and nowhere does it state that the consumer has to prove the fault existed at time of purchase after six months. So unless you are able to point it out to me I have to say you're wrong.

It might be worth changing the advice you're giving out as you used some pretty strongly worded language that at this stage looks to be incorrect.

It's precise and correct. I've provided you with links.

simonsi · Feb 25, 2015

steve23094 said:
Are you sure about this? I have just read the legislation but it's really late and I might have missed it, so can you please reference it?

Legislation is posted here http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:1999:171:0012:0016:ENDF

It does state:-

Unless proved otherwise, any lack of conformity which becomes apparent within six months of delivery of the goods shall be presumed to have existed at the time of delivery unless this presumption is incompatible with the nature of the goods or the nature of the lack of conformity.

But it does not have any text that I see where the onus is on the consumer to prove a fault was already present at purchase after a period of six months. This is an important distinction.

This site also says the same thing:-

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-1677034/Two-year-warranty-EU-law.html

From Meisters link:

"But, after six months in most EU countries you also need to prove yourself that the defect already existed on receipt of the goods, for example, by showing that the defect is due to the poor quality of materials used."

Meister · Feb 25, 2015

simonsi said:
From Meisters link:

"But, after six months in most EU countries you also need to prove yourself that the defect already existed on receipt of the goods, for example, by showing that the defect is due to the poor quality of materials used."

I forgot to add that :apple:

extends the 6 months period to 12 months in their terms of services.

Artimus12 · Feb 25, 2015

Meister said:
Let's clarify the EU 2 year warranty myth:

Up to 6 months after purchase they have to repair or replace your Mac.
For reclamations after that time period you have to prove that the defect was already present at purchase, which is close to impossible to do. So effectively you get 6 months.
...

Not so in the UK.

Here 1 year means 1 year, No proving is necessary! but an Apple Store may - and I state "may" extend the 12 month warranty if the fault is caused by an obvious failure of an original component. I will be paying for Apple Care when I get closer to my 12 month expiry date because I'd rather be certain I'm covered.

greenmeanie said:
It isn't worth it anywhere.
If Apple products are so darn good we shouldn't have to pay extra for warranties.

You're being unrealistic.

Even the highest quality components can and do fail periodically! Things sometimes break, That's why planes crash.

Meister · Feb 26, 2015

Artimus12 said:
Not so in the UK.

Here 1 year means 1 year, No proving is necessary! but an Apple Store may - and I state "may" extend the 12 month warranty if the fault is caused by an obvious failure of an original component. I will be paying for Apple Care when I get closer to my 12 month expiry date because I'd rather be certain I'm covered.:

I already corrected myself in the post before yours.
Apple gives a special 12months warranty. Not by EU law, but by their terms of services.

Apple Care not really worth it in Europe?

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