the reason Samsung ditched SD cards in gs6

skratch77 · Mar 3, 2015

At first I was a little upset when I heard the gs6 and edge would not get SD cards and started reading up on what they got inside that sucker.

Samsung has been criticized for having laggy TouchWiz and did this to help rid of any lag on the device.

The new memory is using universal flash 2.0 and runs on a sata 300+mb/second scsi type connection and is using the same tech in the fastest servers using in same fast harddrives.this type of setup is 3× to 4× faster then the fastest SD cards and runs on a completely different system bus type.

If they would add an SD card and people started putting huge movie files and system games on it there would of been a huge cluster **** bottle neck and the system would lag and run like crap going back and forth trying to read from the SD card.

Think of it like having an old ide mechanical hard drive installed on a computer with the fastest ssd drive and loading the os and huge files on the old ide standard mechanical drive vs the sata ssd drive.

They had to ditch the SD cards to make it all work right.

spinedoc77 · Mar 3, 2015

That's not why, it's really a simple reason. Samsung saw all the money Apple was making fleecing its customers on memory upgrades and decided it wanted in on that money train as well.

MRU · Mar 3, 2015

skratch77 said:
At first I was a little upset when I heard the gs6 and edge would not get SD cards and started reading up on what they got inside that sucker.

Samsung has been criticized for having laggy TouchWiz and did this to help rid of any lag on the device.

The new memory is using universal flash 2.0 and runs on a sata 300+mb/second scsi type connection and is using the same tech in the fastest servers using in same fast harddrives.this type of setup is 3× to 4× faster then the fastest SD cards and runs on a completely different system bus type.

If they would add an SD card and people started putting huge movie files and system games on it there would of been a huge cluster **** bottle neck and the system would lag and run like crap going back and forth trying to read from the SD card.

Think of it like having an old ide mechanical hard drive installed on a computer with the fastest ssd drive and loading the os and huge files on the old ide standard mechanical drive vs the sata ssd drive.

They had to ditch the SD cards to make it all work right.

Sorry Skratch77 but nope. Just nope.

spinedoc77 said:
That's not why, it's really a simple reason. Samsung saw all the money Apple was making fleecing its customers on memory upgrades and decided it wanted in on that money train as well.

EXACTLY.

Bottom line is Samsung's profits haven't been the same in a long while - and they need to really prioritise their profit margin big time.

They know if they offered the S6 in 32gb with micro-sd and a more expensive 64 & 128 option - NOONE will have bought the bigger more profitable storage options if they can bolster the cheaper model with their own memory.

Samsung are a business - They are not some philanthropic entity.

The bottom line is simple .... they care about the bottom line ...

mojolicious · Mar 3, 2015

Are you suggesting that the SD transfer rate in the S6 would actually be slower than it is in existing models?

spinedoc77 said:
Samsung saw all the money Apple was making fleecing its customers on memory upgrades and decided it wanted in on that money train as well.

This sounds more likely.

skratch77 · Mar 3, 2015

spinedoc77 said:
That's not why, it's really a simple reason. Samsung saw all the money Apple was making fleecing its customers on memory upgrades and decided it wanted in on that money train as well.

they said many times in the key note that the gs6 had the fastest memory ever made and said there is no lag about 5 times.

SD cards do not use sata data bus and are not the same architecture as the memory interface on the new gs6.

Also the gs6 edge is starting out at 64gb base model in UK market

I will say this again and try and understand it.Samsung changed the system memory bus on the gs6 it's not using the old standard.it's using a whole new architecture and is using the same setup as the fastest ssd drives.like the ones found in the mac pros.

Have you people not seen the memory bench scores the phone is getting?

MRU · Mar 3, 2015

skratch77 said:
they said many times in the key note that the gs6 had the fastest memory ever made and said there is no lag about 5 times.

Your theory is akin to

1 + 1 = 6

----------

skratch77 said:
Also the gs6 edge is starting out at 64gb base model in UK market

Because they need to justify the £150-250 premium over the standard 32gb Galaxy S6

skratch77 · Mar 3, 2015

The gs6 is using a sata memory interface it's getting 400mb/second transfer rates.

Hello it's using a new system bus architecture for its memory and not using the standard in SD cards.

Think of it like installing a 64gb ssd drive as an SD card. the old so cards would bottle neck and cause slowdowns in the ui reading data from the old SD standard.

How much is a 400mb/sec 128gb ssd drive cost?

Because that is what Samsung has in the gs6.when a company has been criticized for years of have laggy TouchWiz and wants to fix it then why would they waste so much money putting ssd drives in the phone for memory and not gone the old school way and used cheap old school memory found in the gs5 and all other phones.

gotluck · Mar 3, 2015

I really think it is the touchwiz layer causing lag , not the sd slot. They could have allowed only media on the card (like the s4 gpe) and there would be no issues. Media does not need higher speeds than what the sd slot is capable of.

I believe higher quality cards can even keep up with 4k video recording.

Just keep apps off the sd card.

Cutting the whole arm off when only the hand is bad

skratch77 · Mar 3, 2015

gotluck said:
I really think it is the touchwiz layer causing lag , not the sd slot. They could have allowed only media on the card (like the s4 gpe) and there would be no issues. Media does not need higher speeds than what the sd slot is capable of.

I believe higher quality cards can even keep up with 4k video recording.

Just keep apps off the sd card.

Cutting the whole arm off when only the hand is bad

You have two different bus architectures and would cause issues.

If Samsung cared about profits they would of used the same memory in the note 4 and gs5 and not of gone next Gen in the gs6.they are trying to give the user the fastest memory possible and get rid of any lag TouchWiz adds.

When we get ufs 2.0 sd cards you will see Samsung add the sd card back

spinedoc77 · Mar 3, 2015

gotluck said:
I really think it is the touchwiz layer causing lag , not the sd slot. They could have allowed only media on the card (like the s4 gpe) and there would be no issues. Media does not need higher speeds than what the sd slot is capable of.

I believe higher quality cards can even keep up with 4k video recording.

Just keep apps off the sd card.

Cutting the whole arm off when only the hand is bad

It's the TW layer for sure AND carrier bloatware. I've ran enough custom ROM's on Samsung devices to know what lag free means.

gotluck · Mar 3, 2015

skratch77 said:
You have two different bus architectures and would cause issues.

If Samsung cared about profits they would of used the same memory in the note 4 and gs5 and not of gone next Gen in the gs6.they are trying to give the user the fastest memory possible and get rid of any lag TouchWiz adds.

I don't believe I understand, my pc can handle ssds and has a card reader, this is not possible on mobile?

I hate the overcompensation logic to 'make up' for touchwiz. Just fix the damn software and it would be ridiculously blazing fast. Rargh I'm pissed gpe is dead.

And aye spinedoc carrier software is likely the worst offender

skratch77 · Mar 3, 2015

gotluck said:
I don't believe I understand, my pc can handle ssds and has a card reader, this is not possible on mobile?

They want the phone to run perfect.if you have a 2gb 4k video file on an sd card it will lag vs getting it of the faster system memory.

They are trying to set a bar in memory performance and system response time.ditching the sd card was the right thing to do for long term use

gotluck · Mar 3, 2015

skratch77 said:
They want the phone to run perfect.if you have a 2gb 4k video file on an sd card it will lag vs getting it of the faster system memory.

They are trying to set a bar in memory performance and system response time.ditching the sd card was the right thing to do for long term use

Haha run perfect eh? I hate being a negative nancy but software changes seem pretty minimal

I know I'm one of the few that care, but that's #1 for me

sk1wbw · Mar 3, 2015

spinedoc77 said:
That's not why, it's really a simple reason. Samsung saw all the money Apple was making fleecing its customers on memory upgrades and decided it wanted in on that money train as well.

"Fleecing" its customers on memory upgrades? Really?

MRU · Mar 3, 2015

skratch77 said:
The gs6 is using a sata memory interface it's getting 400mb/second transfer rates.

Hello it's using a new system bus architecture for its memory and not using the standard in SD cards.

Think of it like installing a 64gb ssd drive as an SD card. the old so cards would bottle neck and cause slowdowns in the ui reading data from the old SD standard.

How much is a 400mb/sec 128gb ssd drive cost?

Because that is what Samsung has in the gs6.when a company has been criticized for years of have laggy TouchWiz and wants to fix it then why would they waste so much money putting ssd drives in the phone for memory and not gone the old school way and used cheap old school memory found in the gs5 and all other phones.

You are genuinely trying to read too much into this and being very naieve imho - but if at the end of the day it makes you feel better to think that this was all for us - ok.

The reality is I have plenty of other devices that don't have issues with lag that use MicroSD to supplement storage - and likewise I have professional Studio Video Cameras here in our Studio that record in full Pro Res 4K onto MicroSD XC without any bottlenecking. But if you think people playing music and looking at photos are going to create as much stress on a device as a Sony Pro Cam recording - fair enough.

As Sheryl Crow sang 'If it makes you happy'......

skratch77 · Mar 3, 2015

gotluck said:
Haha run perfect eh? I hate being a negative nancy but software changes seem pretty minimal

I know I'm one of the few that care, but that's #1 for me

It's sad but Samsung is using brute force with crazy hardware to fix it's software side.

Can you imagine what ios would run like with the gs6 hardware lol

gotluck · Mar 3, 2015

skratch77 said:
It's sad but Samsung is using brute force with crazy hardware to fix it's software side.

Can you imagine what ios would run like with the gs6 hardware lol

I still feel like my gs4 gpe is smoother than a stock s5. Makes me want to bang my head against the wall

Samsungs hardware specs are so top notch

The-Real-Deal82 · Mar 3, 2015

I am sure they dumped SD cards to help reduce lag and implement a system to charge higher prices for storage options. Other manufacturers do it like Apple and HTC so it makes sense for Samsung's mobile division to recoup some lost profit.

skratch77 · Mar 3, 2015

MRU said:
You are genuinely trying to read too much into this and being very naieve imho - but if at the end of the day it makes you feel better to think that this was all for us - ok.

The reality is I have plenty of other devices that don't have issues with lag that use MicroSD to supplement storage - and likewise I have professional Studio Video Cameras here in our Studio that record in full Pro Res 4K onto MicroSD XC without any bottlenecking. But if you think people playing music and looking at photos are going to create as much stress on a device as a Sony Pro Cam recording - fair enough.

As Sheryl Crow sang 'If it makes you happy'......

does your studio run TouchWiz? Why would Samsung go through the trouble of getting this faster memory in the phone when it could of used the older tech that it has stock piles of?

They are trying to get it right with the gs6 and they could of saved margins using the older ram.that's something that apple would do lol

LIVEFRMNYC · Mar 3, 2015

Besides the OP's reasoning which I agree with .....

No micro SD slot is easier on the battery. Not by much though, but the battery on the S6 isn't nothing to write about. And every now and then an app might drain battery writing to the SD in the background.

Where would the slot be on the edge? The edge is slimmer than the M9, and has screen edged down the sides. It would hurt the edge sales(which is Samsung's main focus) if the regular S6 had a micro SD slot and the edge didn't.

Samsung already had plenty of chances to make money off of storage. But releases of higher storage devices were too late or scarce. And there was actual demand. Of course Sansung wants money, but I doubt money for storage options was the focus for lack of sd slot.

skratch77 · Mar 3, 2015

The-Real-Deal82 said:
I am sure they dumped SD cards to help reduce lag and implement a system to charge higher prices for storage options. Other manufacturers do it like Apple and HTC so it makes sense for Samsung's mobile division to recoup some lost profit.

But at the same time switched standard internal memory to something that costs more then the older stuff in say the note 4.

This holds true if they got rid of the SD card and kept the same old memory as before but they gave us a new memory that is faster(about 4 times faster)then the note 4

mojolicious · Mar 3, 2015

sk1wbw said:
"Fleecing" its customers on memory upgrades? Really?

A Computerworld article last September quoted TrendForce NAND prices of $8.87 for 16GB, $31.48 for 64GB, and $62.96 for 128GB. If we pretend that Apple are paying 100% of those prices then your $100 to get from 16GB>64GB costs Apple $22.61, and your $200 from 16GB>128GB costs Apple $54.09.

It's so fleecy I'm surprised it doesn't baa.

I also recall reading a teardown that estimated the value of the components in the 6+ is less than $15 more than those in the 6.

The-Real-Deal82 · Mar 3, 2015

skratch77 said:
But at the same time switched standard internal memory to something that costs more then the older stuff in say the note 4.

This holds true if they got rid of the SD card and kept the same old memory as before but they gave us a new memory that is faster(about 4 times faster)then the note 4

What is the price difference of that particular component in comparison to the predicted price increase of the device when it goes on sale?

skratch77 · Mar 3, 2015

The-Real-Deal82 said:
What is the price difference of that particular component in comparison to the predicted price increase of the device when it goes on sale?

I'm pretty sure that it would of been cheaper using the old vs building a a factory and new assembly to build a new memory architecture

Remember Samsung is the first in the world to make and mass produce these chips and did it for the gs6.

They will get there investment back in time from selling these chips to others down the road

The-Real-Deal82 · Mar 3, 2015

skratch77 said:
I'm pretty sure that it would of been cheaper using the old vs building a a factory and new assembly to build a new memory architecture

Remember Samsung is the first in the world to make and mass produce these chips and did it for the gs6.

They will get there investment back in time from selling these chips to others down the road

Reading more into it it appears to be a massive gamble by Samsung that has been invested over the last few years. Tens of billions of dollars has gone into building their chip plant so I think it will be some years before they see a return on their investment. Raising the prices of their flagship smartphone under this circumstance seems a logical thing to do. It appears the manufacturing cost for each chip is less than the previous Snapdragon chips made by Qualcomm but as you say it is Samsung that have taken on this process. Interesting times ahead and one that could make or break the companies mobile division.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/samsung-bets-on-its-chips-in-galaxy-s6-1425392006

the reason Samsung ditched SD cards in gs6

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