The TiBook Has Arrived - Questions

A.Goldberg · Mar 10, 2015

Hi Everyone,

So after a 9 day delay and literal side trip to Hawaii, my 15" PowerBook has arrived in the mail. It's the Titanium 1Ghz, 512MB, 60 GB HD, SuperDrive model- the last of the TiBooks. EBay Link. Full Description: "computer excellent condition.no cosmetic damage. comes with power cord.however battery does not hold charge."

I'm looking for some advice...
1) The overall condition is very, very good physical considering what most TiBooks. There is one little area of cracked paint but nothing too serious. Hinges and great. The charger was still wrapped in the original plastic. After unpacking it, cleaning it up, and firing it up, I have noticed a few issues that are apparent to me but were not disclosed. Reference pictures attached.

Screen has white spots.
Bottom case has small but noticable defect on front corner
Numerical button "2" does not work correctly
SuperDrive intermittant functionality (about 50% of the time). Sometimes it just spits out the disk

In reality I don't want to send the computer back. The screen I can fix eventually I imagine, though not currently a priority. It's not terrible but it is present. The case defect is minimal but it looks like he intentionally avoided photographing that corner. If I could be fixed with simply a new bottom case. I'm just annoyed these two visible issues were not brought up. The 2 button likely means a new keyboard unless you can still buy the replacement scissoring mechanism. The DVD drive needs a replacement, but so does the PRAM battery (you have to take out the DVD drive to replace the PRAM).

I guess the question here is do you think its worth bringing this up these problems with the seller? I don't believe this was his personal computer so he may not have known about a couple of these functional issues (#2 key + DVD). Have you guys had any luck renegotiating pricing on issues like these? I didn't expect the computer to be 100% being a TiBook and 12 years old, but I would have expected the screen an case to be reported. Ok now the ugly part is out of the way.

2) I'm probably looking to upgrade the ram. Right now were at 2x256. I'd like to upgrade to 2x512 (max is 1GB). Anyone have any recommendation on where to find this RAM at a good price?

3) The battery is completely shot. Any recommendations on a replacement brand? This is kind of a sketchy subject because battery quality can't be assessed over the internet and I've read about aftermarket batteries not fitting correctly.

4) Where's a good place to pickup a PRAM battery for this guy?

5) OS 9 is installed which is what I want play around with a lot. I can boot into OS 9 but it seems as if there are no drivers? The volume buttons and sound don't seem to work. The screen will flash instead of warning noises. It doesn't seem to recognize the CD drive (when it decides to be function). I'll begin here by making a bootable clone of the entire HD, but where should I start to work out this OS 9 glitch?

6) The computer reports about 1/2 the hard drive being full. It appears 27GB is dedicated the OS X system folder. The hard drive only has one partition. I forget how this works but does this have something to do with space dedicated to OS9 and space being dedicated to OS X? I haven't investigated this very seriously. I don't see any previous user files though.

That's it for questions for now. Here are some pictures.

Many thanks,
Ari

bunnspecial · Mar 10, 2015

Sorry for not responding to your PM of a few days ago-I'm having issues with that. In any case, here's what I typed up when you originally asked me about the battery and RAM.

These have two RAM slots and can take 2x512mb of PC-133 144-pin SO-DIMMs. As these do have a 133mhz FSB, be sure you actually get PC-133.

I've bought a LOT of SD-RAM off Ebay. 512mb SO-DIMMs generally run about $8-12 each from US based sellers, or $4-5 each from China. I've had equally good success with RAM from both sources-it just takes a little bit longer from China. Many folks will tell you that Macs are picky with RAM, but that's not really been my experience. I will buy name brand(Crucial, Samsung, etc) if there's not a huge cost difference, but generally just buy cheap and figure if I get a bad stick every once in a while it's worth the money savings in the long run(I buy a lot of RAM).

Just be sure that whatever you get is low density. I've never seen 512mb SD-RAM that is NOT low density, but it's worth watching out for.

I bought a $20 battery on Ebay, and have been very disappointed with it. I have to use paper shims to get it to stay in contact with the contacts in the battery compartment. It never lived up to its advertised capacity, and even worse has a dead cell that causes it to drop from 20% to 2% in the span of a few seconds. I ended up keeping it, but the seller refunded me about half the original cost because of all of my problems-I basically just consider it good enough for moving the computer from plug to plug, and in fact the factory batteries that I have work every bit as well for plus I don't have to worry about moving the computer wrong and having the battery lose contact.

NewerTech makes by far and away the best aftermarket batteries. I have them for some of my newer Powerbooks, and need to break down and buy at least one for one of my Titaniums. You can get Newertech batteries from OWC. Depending on how much power you want, they are either $57 or $94. In my experience, they live up to their stated capacities, and fit nearly as well as a factory battery. Plus, if one goes bad, you're actually dealing with a reputable company and not a random Ebay seller.

eyoungren · Mar 10, 2015

This is pretty good for that old. You should see the case on my son's TiBook. You have a good case.

The cracking just goes with the TiBooks. It will get worse. My case on my old TiBook 400 completely crumbled on me when I went to get the LCD out for my son.

P.S. I PMed you.

poiihy · Mar 10, 2015

Don't replce the DVD drive!!! 99% of "broken" optical drives are actually just dusty! Use a lens cleaner disk to clean the drive!

MagicBoy · Mar 10, 2015

I bought a 667MHz Gigabit one a few months ago so I'll help out in where I can. Mine is cosmetically perfect aside from a couple tiny paint chips on the front edge (I assume from a watch) and a barely visible pressure mark on the screen.

1. Agree that the picture is suspiciously cropped. If one of the keys is not functioning as is the Superdrive then it's not fully operational as per the listing. Superdrive might just need the lens cleaning though.

3. Stay away from eBay. I had nothing but trouble with cheap chinese made batteries after failing to find a decent brand in the UK. They sent me numerous ones - all fail at around 35% which is an indication of bad cells and the fit is poor, one powered the laptop off whenever it moved. I think Newertech still make them in the US, shame I can't justify the postage cost to the UK.

4. PRAM battery on mine comes as part of a module with other stuff. They were about $70-80 last time I checked! Might be different on the 1GHz.

5) I'd reinstall OS 9. Sounds like a bad install or not the correct version for that machine. There's a restore set on Macintosh Garden you could try the OS9 CD from. I used it on mine successfully even though it's from a later DVI model.

6) The default dual boot setup has OS 9 and OS X on the same partition. Giveaway is a "System" for OS X and a "System folder" for OS 9. As far as I can work out you have to pick via the Startup Disk preference as both don't show with an option boot.

bunnspecial · Mar 10, 2015

MagicBoy said:
6) The default dual boot setup has OS 9 and OS X on the same partition. Giveaway is a "System" for OS X and a "System folder" for OS 9. As far as I can work out you have to pick via the Startup Disk preference as both don't show with an option boot.

It's possible to force booting into OS X(assuming OS X is installed) by holding down X while booting. The computer will restart before the gray screen appears, and then boot into OS X.

I don't know if there's a key that will force booting into OS 9.

I agree that the OS 9 install is likely incorrect for the computer. Refer back to our PM discussion a week or two back for how to obtain the correct one.

MagicBoy · Mar 10, 2015

Didn't know that one. Thanks!

bunnspecial · Mar 10, 2015

MagicBoy said:
Didn't know that one. Thanks!

It's a trick I've found very useful when I tried to boot a computer into OS 9 with a bad or incorrect OS 9 install. It can be a lifesaver, as otherwise you can find yourself "stuck" with no way to boot into OS 9 completely and no other way to install OS X(of course, you can also boot off an install disk and use the startup disk utility from there, but being able to do it from the keyboard is a LOT easier).

A.Goldberg · Mar 10, 2015

Yes, I have 10.4 as well on the TiBook. It works fine in Tiger mode.

I'll have to look back at my our discussion Bunn I forgot the details so I'm speaking out out now. Can I copy the files in directly from the download or how cam I burn the bootable OS 9 CD using my G5 or Mac Pro? I can boot to OS9 but it won't recognize the CD drive because something is evidently missing (Optical Drive, Audio, Video drivers, etc)

Another thought... If I downloaded Toast 5 and the system files, could I run Toast 5 in OS X through classic mode and burn the disk that way?

bunnspecial · Mar 10, 2015

A.Goldberg said:
Yes, I have 10.4 as well on the TiBook. It works fine in Tiger mode.

I'll have to look back at my our discussion Bunn I forgot the details so I'm speaking out out now. Can I copy the files in directly from the download or how cam I burn the bootable OS 9 CD using my G5 or Mac Pro? I can boot to OS9 but it won't recognize the CD drive because something is evidently missing (Optical Drive, Audio, Video drivers, etc)

Another thought... If I downloaded Toast 5 and the system files, could I run Toast 5 in OS X through classic mode and burn the disk that way?

Basically, you will want to use Toast 5 to burn a disk and boot off of it. Then, drag and drop the system folder and other folders from the disk onto the hard drive in your TiBook. You should be good to go from there.

I think that Toast 5 will run on both OS 9 and OS X, so you should be okay running it from your G5.

eyoungren · Mar 10, 2015

bunnspecial said:
Basically, you will want to use Toast 5 to burn a disk and boot off of it. Then, drag and drop the system folder and other folders from the disk onto the hard drive in your TiBook. You should be good to go from there.

I think that Toast 5 will run on both OS 9 and OS X, so you should be okay running it from your G5.

Yeah, Toast 5 is OS X. I used it for years to burn backups of our publications.

A.Goldberg · Mar 10, 2015

eyoungren said:
Yeah, Toast 5 is OS X. I used it for years to burn backups of our publications.

Great Guys, Thanks!

Anyone have any real life numbers of the difference in battery life of the NewerTech Batteries. There's 2 different wattages...

weckart · Mar 10, 2015

bunnspecial said:
It's possible to force booting into OS X(assuming OS X is installed) by holding down X while booting. The computer will restart before the gray screen appears, and then boot into OS X.

I don't know if there's a key that will force booting into OS 9.

There isn't, unfortunately. There was a way of forcing it on Old World computers but that is by the by. If both OS9 and OSX are on the same volume then you have to use Startup Disk to select OS9 for booting if it was not the last OS booted. Having both OSes on the same volume leads to the active OS unblessing the other so that only the last OS invoked shows when you boot holding down the Option key.

A.Goldberg · Mar 10, 2015

weckart said:
There isn't, unfortunately. There was a way of forcing it on Old World computers but that is by the by. If both OS9 and OSX are on the same volume then you have to use Startup Disk to select OS9 for booting if it was not the last OS booted. Having both OSes on the same volume leads to the active OS unblessing the other so that only the last OS invoked shows when you boot holding down the Option key.

I just noticed this today. Weird.

So I got $25 back from the seller which is decently fair. The optical drive held up long enough to get OS 9 installed. Earlier in the day I just played through a music cd to give it some action. I thinking a cleaning will hopefully solve the issue.

I had some trouble getting online via ethernet but I guess the problem was I had to fake my way through the internet setup, which I did and everything runs good.

I tried to download Classilla but their download isn't working. I tried to get if off macintoshgarden.org but they reject my current Internet Explorer browser. So I'll have to do some hopping around between web browsers and OS' tomorrow.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions.

tom vilsack · Mar 10, 2015

Maybe try leopard! My old 667 Dvi-Ti with only 768 ram,and newish 120g ide hd run's leopard fairly well...in fact it run's leopard even better then Tiger!

edit: Me bad! Yes it was "LeopardAssist" that I used and not Xportfacto...

bunnspecial · Mar 11, 2015

tom vilsack said:
Maybe try leopard! My old 667 Dvi-Ti with only 768 ram,and newish 120g ide hd run's leopard fairly well (using XPOSTFACTO to install as mine doesn't meet min leopard req)...in fact it run's leopard even better then Tiger!

Small correction-Xpostfacto is used to install Panther and Tiger on unsupported systems(OWR Macs for Panther, and computers without built-in Firewire for Tiger).

LeopardAssist allows Leopard to be installed on AGP-based G4s that do not officially support it due to processor speed requirements.

The way the two programs work is quite different. One of the key things Xpostfacto does is install kexts needed to support older hardware that are missing from newer OSs, in addition to "tricking" the installer to run on unsupported hardware.

LeopardAssist just "tricks" the Leopard installer into thinking that you have a faster processor than you actually have. It's really an elegant and simple solution, although the same thing can done(albeit much less easily) through Open Firmware. You can also do the Leopard install on a supported machine and then transplant the hard drive into an AGP-based G4 with a processor slower than 867mhz(or do it via Target Disk Mode to avoid even having to remove hard drives).

Leopard Assist WILL NOT help installing Leopard on a PCI graphics G4, or on an older computer with a G4 upgrade. Installing Leopard on these is possible, but requires a fair bit more work.

Of course, all of this is moot, since the OP's TiBook is 1ghz and thus can install Leopard directly.

lowendlinux · Mar 11, 2015

A.Goldberg said:
Hi Everyone,

So after a 9 day delay and literal side trip to Hawaii, my 15" PowerBook has arrived in the mail. It's the Titanium 1Ghz, 512MB, 60 GB HD, SuperDrive model- the last of the TiBooks. EBay Link. Full Description: "computer excellent condition.no cosmetic damage. comes with power cord.however battery does not hold charge."

I'm looking for some advice...
1) The overall condition is very, very good physical considering what most TiBooks. There is one little area of cracked paint but nothing too serious. Hinges and great. The charger was still wrapped in the original plastic. After unpacking it, cleaning it up, and firing it up, I have noticed a few issues that are apparent to me but were not disclosed. Reference pictures attached.

Screen has white spots.

Bottom case has small but noticable defect on front corner

Numerical button "2" does not work correctly

SuperDrive intermittant functionality (about 50% of the time). Sometimes it just spits out the disk

In reality I don't want to send the computer back. The screen I can fix eventually I imagine, though not currently a priority. It's not terrible but it is present. The case defect is minimal but it looks like he intentionally avoided photographing that corner. If I could be fixed with simply a new bottom case. I'm just annoyed these two visible issues were not brought up. The 2 button likely means a new keyboard unless you can still buy the replacement scissoring mechanism. The DVD drive needs a replacement, but so does the PRAM battery (you have to take out the DVD drive to replace the PRAM).

I guess the question here is do you think its worth bringing this up these problems with the seller? I don't believe this was his personal computer so he may not have known about a couple of these functional issues (#2 key + DVD). Have you guys had any luck renegotiating pricing on issues like these? I didn't expect the computer to be 100% being a TiBook and 12 years old, but I would have expected the screen an case to be reported. Ok now the ugly part is out of the way.

2) I'm probably looking to upgrade the ram. Right now were at 2x256. I'd like to upgrade to 2x512 (max is 1GB). Anyone have any recommendation on where to find this RAM at a good price?

3) The battery is completely shot. Any recommendations on a replacement brand? This is kind of a sketchy subject because battery quality can't be assessed over the internet and I've read about aftermarket batteries not fitting correctly.

4) Where's a good place to pickup a PRAM battery for this guy?

5) OS 9 is installed which is what I want play around with a lot. I can boot into OS 9 but it seems as if there are no drivers? The volume buttons and sound don't seem to work. The screen will flash instead of warning noises. It doesn't seem to recognize the CD drive (when it decides to be function). I'll begin here by making a bootable clone of the entire HD, but where should I start to work out this OS 9 glitch?

6) The computer reports about 1/2 the hard drive being full. It appears 27GB is dedicated the OS X system folder. The hard drive only has one partition. I forget how this works but does this have something to do with space dedicated to OS9 and space being dedicated to OS X? I haven't investigated this very seriously. I don't see any previous user files though.

That's it for questions for now. Here are some pictures.

Many thanks,
Ari

I know you're having problems and that sucks and I'm sorry but that is one sexy TiBook in outstanding shape I would have paid more for it than you did.

iModFrenzy · Mar 11, 2015

My PB has some lightspots, the spots are in the exact area yours are.

A.Goldberg · Mar 11, 2015

lowendlinux said:
I know you're having problems and that sucks and I'm sorry but that is one sexy TiBook in outstanding shape I would have paid more for it than you did.

I'm very happy with it despite the little issues. The I have essentially reinstalled OS 9 so thats working well. The DVD drive after playing a CD through and doing some burning appears to be working much better. I've ordered a cleaning CD.

The keyboard is a $10 replacement and a quick fix.
The screen I can live with for now. Cheap part, ridiculously annoying repair but when I do it I'll just buy the whole screen assembly.
The bottom case isn't terrible. It's barely noticeable. A new bottom case will do the trick.
New battery is on the way

I'm happy that the logic board and inverter are good, the hinges are clean and straight , the paint is in tact, and the latch works.

And I am getting $$$ back from the seller.

So it's all good.

MatthewLTL · Mar 11, 2015

bunnspecial said:
Small correction-Xpostfacto is used to install Panther and Tiger on unsupported systems(OWR Macs for Panther, and computers without built-in Firewire for Tiger).

LeopardAssist allows Leopard to be installed on AGP-based G4s that do not officially support it due to processor speed requirements.

The way the two programs work is quite different. One of the key things Xpostfacto does is install kexts needed to support older hardware that are missing from newer OSs, in addition to "tricking" the installer to run on unsupported hardware.

LeopardAssist just "tricks" the Leopard installer into thinking that you have a faster processor than you actually have. It's really an elegant and simple solution, although the same thing can done(albeit much less easily) through Open Firmware. You can also do the Leopard install on a supported machine and then transplant the hard drive into an AGP-based G4 with a processor slower than 867mhz(or do it via Target Disk Mode to avoid even having to remove hard drives).

Leopard Assist WILL NOT help installing Leopard on a PCI graphics G4, or on an older computer with a G4 upgrade. Installing Leopard on these is possible, but requires a fair bit more work.

Of course, all of this is moot, since the OP's TiBook is 1ghz and thus can install Leopard directly.

Couldn't you use Xpostfacto to also install Tiger on a OWR Mac (Such as the Power Mac G3 AIO or the Beige G3 desktop and tower?

bunnspecial · Mar 11, 2015

weckart · Mar 12, 2015

MatthewLTL said:
Couldn't you use Xpostfacto to also install Tiger on a OWR Mac (Such as the Power Mac G3 AIO or the Beige G3 desktop and tower?

Yes. I have done that with a Wallstreet but I cannot get XPF to cooperate with a Kanga for some reason. It starts to boot the disc but gives up halfway.

MatthewLTL · Mar 13, 2015

weckart said:
Yes. I have done that with a Wallstreet but I cannot get XPF to cooperate with a Kanga for some reason. It starts to boot the disc but gives up halfway.

What if you have a PCI FireWire card in a mac? Since Tiger requires FireWire to install if you had a PCI FireWire card in a mac that has no firewire would Tiger install?

bunnspecial · Mar 13, 2015

MatthewLTL said:
What if you have a PCI FireWire card in a mac? Since Tiger requires FireWire to install if you had a PCI FireWire card in a mac that has no firewire would Tiger install?

We've been through this before. Tiger requires built in Firewire.

I have both USB and Firewire cards in my Beige G3, along with a Rage 128 Graphics Card...I still need to use Xpostfacto to install anything beyond 10.2.8.

MatthewLTL · Mar 13, 2015

bunnspecial said:
We've been through this before. Tiger requires built in Firewire.

I have both USB and Firewire cards in my Beige G3, along with a Rage 128 Graphics Card...I still need to use Xpostfacto to install anything beyond 10.2.8.

how the hell would the computer no any better? my USB bluetooth AND PCI PCI 2 cards are detected in System Profiler as native hardware

The TiBook Has Arrived - Questions

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